This question came up the other night when I went to attend a formal dinner. If you have a dress shirt with a vest over it as well as a trench coat, where do you put your fountain pen? Do you put it in the front pocket of your dress shirt, which is under your vest? Or do you put it in the inside pocket of your trench coat. The thing with putting pens, or cheques in your trench coat, is that the attendends, will usually check your jackets for you.

You might just leave it at home, knowing that a waiter will be able to bring you a pen should you need one. Do your trousers have side pockets? I usually carry a pen in my side pocket.

If you're wearing a dinner jacket or formal tailcoat (are you talking about a formal dinner or a semi-formal dinner?), you could probably have a small, vertical, pen-shaped pocket sewn inside. I've had this done before.

By the description, there's no jacket topping the vest, so the dinner can't be TOO formal I'd suggest a using a vest-sized pen (Sheaffer Tuckaway, Waterman 52 1/2 V, something like that) in the pocket of the vest itself. If one of those isn't available, and there's not too much disruption of the line of the clothes, under the vest is acceptable. If there IS a jacket, then the inner pocket is ideal. If you've got the right sort of leathery case, front trouser pockets are fine-- wallet on one side, pen on the other.

Yah don't jackets come with little pockets on the inside left (next to the regular inner pocket) designed for pens? I only have like two jackets, but they both come with little side pockets, or at least the regular big pocket. Nothing else would fit into those little pockets except maybe a cigar. Some modern jackets now come with cell phone pockets, which might also be an option.

I'd say get a vest pocket pen and use it or even attach a ringtop to your pocket watch chain- you'll need to get a pocket watch and chain too


Kurt

In the past, when I have rented dinner jackets they had an interior pocket. I would use that pocket. I also would not have a problem putting a smallish M-200 sized pen in the short pocket, under the vest.

I usually clip a pen to my collar. I've been doing this for so long... it's automatic. Tragically, I have lost pens with this carrying method. So I have some pen caps in my collection.

For formal events, I clip the pen so the clip is on the outside, like jewelry. Also cuts down on losing the pen, should it uncap. I think you know what I'm saying.

I tend to keep my pen in the inside pocket of my vest or jacket, unless I feel like showing off the cap tip.... then its all about the shirt pocket.
I just acquired a single pen leather carrying case today on my trip to the pen shop (it was between my morning destination and home... I couldn't resist)... I think the single pen case in a side pocket will do in the future if coat/vest pockets aren't available or if the coat/vest will be left untended.

My dress shirts don't have pockets. I have a leather check book with pockets for a pen and one for cash, and I keep it in the inside jacket pocket. It will also fit in my front trousers pocket.

A fine system, except you don't get shirt pockets in formal attire. Really your only choice is a slim pen in your tailcoat or a pen tucked into your billfold (which presumably you'll take from your overcoat before checking it).

Kurt's suggestion of a ringtop is fine, if you have a watch chain in a complementary metal.

If your pique vest has pockets, you should probably leave them empty for the best drape.

Avoid bulging trouser pockets. The only thing that should be in them is your handkerchief and your event tickets. Everything else goes in your overcoat, billfold/money clip, or gets left home.

I usually keep a pen in that little pocket in the inner side of my suit jacket.

I was assuming a generous drape of the bags-- I'm a pleat-front fancier, myself. If we're talking black-tie formal, that is less of a possibility. A trailing servant, perhaps?

Here's a picture of a pen pocket my tailor added to the inside of a jacket, and a picture of a one a jacket was made with originally. I find a pen pocket to be very handy because, in a bigger pocket, a pen can fall to the side.

Would you check in your overcoat with all the money clip, pen, etc?

I find an evening bag works wonders with a smaller pen.

Mine stay on my shirt or on my sportcoat's inside pocket. Never leave valuables on a checked garment.

I usually slide it down right next to the Bowie knife I have strapped under my pant leg... never get guff from the parking lot attendants nowadays, either.

Evening Lost -

As others have mentioned, a formal shirt is never tailored with pockets. A formal vest or waistcoat always has one or two watchpockets which can safely and properly hold a very short pen.

The proper option for carrying a pen is tucked inside the left pen pocket of the tuxedo jacket or evening coat, along with a clean pressed white linen handkerchief. The wallet (a flat, checkbook sized wallet) goes inside the right jacket pocket - all assuming you are right handed. Nothing goes in the pockets of your outer garment except a business card (in case the coat check staff hands your coat to the wrong guy at the end of the night). Nothing goes in your front trouser pockets except a money clip, a very flat cellphone, and a business card case (maybe with your driver’s license and a credit card in addition to business cards or calling cards). The drape of a properly fitted pair of slacks can be easily spoiled by too much stuff in the pockets. (Is that a rabbit in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?)

I'm wondering whether you might actually have been referring to a long tailcoat, cutaway, or formal evening jacket when you mentioned a trenchcoat (since a truly formal white tie evening jacket is about the same length as a shorter trenchcoat). I hope so. 'Cause dude, if you attended a formal dinner in a vest, shirt, and trousers - in case nobody told you - you were a waiter.

I too wondered about his use of "trench coat" and what he meant. I assumed he would wear a jacket, but then I saw further in the thread some mention of not wearing one.

Unless the heat were unbearable, it would be weird to remove your jacket at a formal or semi-formal thing.

Oh jeez haha. I believe I've made some terrible assumptions Seeing how I mostly wear jeans everyday, I assumed what I wore to dinner was formal. I think it would be semi-formal. And in Vest i acutally meant a sweater over a dress shirt. That's why I wondered if I should put the pen in my shirt under my sweater. But hey, one thing I've learned for sure is how not to dress like a waiter (thanks Yachtsilverswan) .

Much better!

I have found my pens look weird underneath a sweater - unless its a bulky cable knit. Little bulges in the wrong places. If it's a V neck, you could try clipping the pen diagonally between the 2nd and 3rd buttons of your shirt - that looks a little better. Otherwise, I carry the pen in a leather slipcase in my right front trouser pocket. If its a Vanishing Point, I carry the pen clipped to the right front trouser pocket. But clipping a capped pen there is an invitation to disaster - the pen will work free of the cap, and well you can imagine the rest.

Under a sweater, I think that putting a pen in your shirt pocket will be fine. I suppose that it might look a little weird with a thin sweater, but you can try it and see how you like it.

For your edification:
- Formal: White-tie and a tailcoat
- Semi-formal: Black-tie and a dinner jacket (i.e. tuxedo without tails)
- Informal: An ordinary business suit and tie
- Casual: Whatever you want it to mean--navy blazer and tan pants with or without a tie, suit without a tie, trousers and a polo, khakis and a polo, or, I suppose, even jeans and a sleeveless Whitesnake t-shirt. ;-)

This thread is great....

Lol, I've learned quite a bit in this thread so far. On the Muscato scale I tend to peak somewhere around informal.

Hrm.. my jeans and *sleeved* Motorhead t-shirt... semi-informal?

The scale's not a personal one; it's standard (or, at least the first three are standard). :-)

If I use a slimmer pen like a Waterman 12, I can slip it down the suppressor of my Mac 10.
If I'm not going heeled, then I carry a Parker 16 "Baby", which is small enough to carry pretty much anywhere you want to put it.

Ditto what he said.

(chuckles) Unless you are very very charming, very very good looking, and/or very very rich - jeans and a sleeved Motorhead T-shirt would more likely make you semi-uninvited.

But thanks for playing.

And per the thread on the shopping trip from hell, I presume that we are to wear the first two while car shopping?

So this thread has covered the gamut of how to "wear" a pen.

To LostPisces question, how to "wear" a pen when "casually" attired (thanks Muscato), I usually use the shirt left breast pocket, unless it really looks "dorky" (my kids do not spare the candor). Next choice is between the second and third button of a buttondown shirt (below second button of a polo shirt) with the pen inside the shirt and clip showing on the out (though I've had two incidents of a pen runaway from its cap where the ink then ranaway from its pen collecting somewhere around my waist line - just make sure your pen cap grooves are either double threaded and/or need 1.25-1.5 turns or more to remove the pen from the cap).

I never use my trouser pockets...always troubling as I reach for keys, change and assorted other stuff I carry daily. I don't want to scratch the pen.

Finally, when formally and semi-formally attired, I do not carry a FP. It would ruin the line of the Tail Coat/Dinner Jacket. I also have to carry a wallet and cell phone for medical reasons so my pockets are full enough as it is. Also, these are usually events in which dancing is involved and I do not want to have to pen stain my formal shirt from the inside or have the pen knocked loose from my pocket only to fly across the dance floor and be crushed under some 3.5 inch stiletto causing a fair damsel to twist an ankle and crumple to the floor, taking others in her wake. The pool of color on the floor would also unnerve other party goers ("My goodness, she's a "Blue-blood" and never told us! 'All Hail the[Princess/Viscountess/Marquess/Baroness]. Quick, call a doc!') All in all, potentially a very nasty scene. If I need to write something down, I borrow an inferior instrument. Just about the only time I'd do that.

Piquadro pouch

Even semi-formal occasions are hard to come by, these days. Last spring I wore black tie to an opening-night performance at the Metropolitan Opera, assuming that this would be de rigueur, but I was one of maybe three or four men in the entire audience who wore a tux. Lots of people wore jeans and polo shirts. Still, it was fun to dress up.

Wait.... how were you able to describe me so accurately (other than the very very rich part)?... Are you that dang kid thats been coming over my back fence and trying to play with my dogs?

And to defend myself a bit... I *would* tuck in my t-shirt and wear non-oil spattered jeans.

And I agree with Viseguy wholeheartedly: "Even semi-formal occasions are hard to come by". I think it may be another thing that the world is losing or has lost in recent years... many young men about my age would put cargo-pocket khaki pants and a three button polo in the semi-formal range. Myself, I find it hard to justify the expense of owning white-tie clothing... I may get to use it once every four or five years, I'll rent when the occasion raises its head. I do have black-tie appropriate clothing, worn maybe once a year... I attend the symphony locally on a pretty regular basis, I've watched the attire slide downward on the scale from semi-formal to casual and below over the past decade... I've let my symphony attire slide to the semi-informal range, I can't see going in anything less than a nicely tailored suit.

Works for me as well. I don't know why these guys are having all these problems.

(Who needs a tailor when you've got Nordstrom?)

As I'm sure you know (but apparently many people don't), the distinctions I listed above are not subjective. They're not merely descriptions relative to one's ordinary dress, but specific kinds of clothing that are meant to be understood without clarification. Black tie or semi-formal (say, printed on an invitation) always means the same thing, regardless of whether you wear an informal suit or a t-shirt and jeans most days.

Absolutely, I think that is why you see more invitations explicitly saying "Black Tie", "White Tie", and "Morning Dress" nowadays. If you just put "Formal" or worse expect people to know that the type of event you are hosting is considered formal, you'll get the gamut of outfits. People don't understand the terms and think "Well formal, that must mean a collared shirt".