This is my first post on this site. I just received a Waterman 52 purchased on ebay and noticed that the lever does not say Ideal with the globe. Is it possible that that part fell off the lever or it this just a replacement lever. Also, can anyone identify what year this was made. Here is the ebay description and pictures.

DESCRIPTION: Vintage fountain pen by Waterman's. Black chased hard rubber. Lever fill. The two imprints on the barrel are crisp and can be read from two feet away. Identified as #52 on the end of the barrel. The tines spread apart a bit when I apply pressure...flexible nib.
INFORMATION ON THE BARREL: Waterman's Ideal Reg. U.S. Pat. Off. Fountain Pen. Second imprint: Waterman's Reg. U.S. Pat. Off. Made in USA.
INFORMATION ON THE CAP: None.
INFORMATION ON THE CLIP: Waterman's Ideal.
INFORMATION ON THE NIB: Waterman's Ideal Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
PERSONAL ENGRAVING: None.
BRASSING: I don't see any brassing...minimal, if any.
CONDITION: I have run my finger across the inside of the cap and feel no cracks. Light scratching to the finish, as found on vintage, used pens.

Should say Ideal, I think its a replacement! That's common. Levers were easily broken by letting the family children use the pen.

Interesting- I don't know about your particular pen, but the pen you have there looks to be a later production 52. The lever on that pen is probably 1930s vintage- it is newer than the older "round Ideal" levers. Perhaps your pen is a late production 52?

Thanks, Dr. Ozzie. This is my first vintage pen and I still have much to learn. I have seen the Ideal lever and thought maybe that the Ideal logo and globe had just fallen off, but after further inspection, I would have to agree with your opinion that it is a replacement. The other confusing thing I noticed is that the cap has a herringbone design but the body does not. Is this common for these Waterman 52's?

I think it could have come like that. However, i can't say 100% that the cap was never switched during the lifetime of the pen.

I would however keep researching the different models/varieties of that pen over the years. There are many subtle variations out there.

Is the nib fully flexible or one with moderate flex? Waterman nibs from that period with flex are a treasure, perhaps worth more than the pen body they are attached to. I have seen pretty beat up Watermans sell for more than nicer looking Watermans because they had a monster of a nib attached to them with great flex!

Read Richard Binder's webpage on how to write with flex nibs, if you don't then soon you will find yourself getting your pen repaired. Flex nibs must be used with greater care to avoid damaging them.

I'll add my voice to those who think the lever is not original. I don't think the 52 ever came with a square lever like that (not that I am a Waterman expert. . .)

John

They made rubber 52s into 1933 (maybe even 34?). The conversion to celluoid was occurring at that time & celluoid pens had that nickel plated lever.

While it is possible to be original, I've never seen one like you have. Upon blowing up the image, it appears the barrel is scooped out to accomodate the Ideal globe. Therefore, I'd say the lever is a replacement.

The extra imprint at the bottom of the barrel indicates this was made late in the 52 life cycle. Can't remember exactly when they started that, but 1930ish is close enough.

The patterns should match. The barrel and cap then appear to be an after factory marriage.

That's a good point- a bigger scoope I think would indeed tend to imply aftermarket. I can't tell with the image as is- but that may well be right. I will also agree though that I've never seen one like that either.


Still, it looks like with a little restoration this would make a nice user pen. I tend to think of these 52s as the Ford Model T's of the pen world. They're simple, understated, basic, a bit fragile, but very much a classic in the old style sort of way. They also made tons of them and made them for a very long time.

Thanks to all of you for your input. My motivation for getting this pen was to get a flexible nib. This is my first vintage pen I've ever purchased. I got it on ebay for $23 including shipping. Last night, I got the section off and have cleaned everything up. I'll order some ink sacs (size 17) from pendemonium. I'm not too concerned that it's not perfect because I plan to ink it up and use it. I think the oddities make it more interesting. Besides very few people would know that the lever is not original or that the cap and body don't match.

I've been writing with several modern pens (including a Namiki falcon) for about a year and would really like to add some character to my boring cursive writing. I promise, I'll be gentle with the nib. I have nothing to compare it to, but would say it is moderately flexible; it is certainly no wet noodle. I am going to continue to look for other flexilble nibs from the following pens: remex, moore, mabey todd swann. I don't know exactly what model or nibs they should have. Do you have any other suggestions or links for flexible to wet noodle nibs?

I have a 52V with the same lever. My clip is chrome plated like the lever, and is mounted high as your clip is. It also has a chromed cap band. So, the anomaly is that the clip does not match the lever, IMO. Possible the cap was switched or the lever is a later replacement. Either way, you have a working Waterman lever. Collectible value is small anyway, so you have a really great user grade pen that you can knock about without and bad feelings.

The high clip placement was typical of a cap on a shorter vest pocket pen (52V, etc.)

John

I say its original.

Look and see the clip; its a later style watermans clip. This style went along with the later box lever.

Wet noodles are more common from some companies than others:

Waterman, Mabie Todd, and Wahl all had wet noodles. THe first two were especially known for them- though these nibs in good condition may command a higher price than the more common stuff, so be warned.

I use several hard rubber pens quite often- remember to keep it out of sunlight and avoid contact with water if possible.





At first I thought so too- but with the barrel being scooped for the round lever I wasn't so sure anymore. Would they have continued on with the older style cut out from the barrel even with the new lever? I admit I don't know the answer to that one.