It's refreshing when I discover an *honest* company, a company who's grandiose product claims are actually true, be it SureFire's *under*reporing of their lumen outputs, or Spyderco's truly *RUSTPROOF* Salt series H-1 knives

Add Noodler's Ink company to that list....

I recieved my bottles of Noodler's three days ago (Luxury Blue and Manhattan Black), and was eagerly awaiting putting them to the torture test. this thread is a compilation of those few days torturing inks;

Day 1, I inked the test papers with Noodler's Luxury Blue and Manhattan Black, Waterman Blue-Black, a UniBall Signo 207, a Bic Crystal Gel, a Sharpie, a Fisher Bullet, and Zebra 701
the test paper was generic 20# bond scrap paper that had laser printer toner on the backside, one sheet was the Xylene test, the other, the 409

stage 1, water exposure (1 minute running water)....
Noodlers inks; unaffected
Uni-Ball; unaffected
Bic Crystal; slight feathering
Sharpie; unaffected
Fisher Bullet; unaffected
Zebra 701; unaffected
Waterman Blue-Black; 90% washed away

Stage 2 (home solvents, soaked until saturation then air dried);
Lysol Bathroom Cleaner with Bleach and the Goof Off 2 Citrus cleaner did nothing
Formula 409 Glass and Surface cleaner;
Noodlers inks; faint feathering
Uni-Ball; distinct feathering
Sharpie; unaffected
Bic Crystal; slight feathering
Fisher Bullet; unaffected
Zebra 701; unaffected
Waterman Blue-Black; 95% washed away

Stage 3; Original Goof Off Xylene formula (also known as offset printing press deglazing solvent, the stuff used to clean ink off the printing press ink rollers)
Noodlers inks; unaffected
Uni-Ball; unaffected
Bic Crystal; heavy feathering
Sharpie; heavy feathering
Fisher Bullet; light feathering
Zebra 701; heavy feathering and ink seperating into base colors (yellow and black)
Waterman Blue-Black; 99% washed away
**note, the Goof Off was also eating away at the laser printer toner on the back of the paper at this point, it's nasty stuff....

Stage 4; take the Formula 409 test sheet and expose it to water, let dry, then expose to Xylene;
Noodlers inks; unaffected
Uni-Ball; unaffected
Bic Crystal; 90% gone
Sharpie; heavy feathering and blurring
Fisher Bullet; medium feathering
Zebra 701; heavy feathering and ink seperating into base colors (yellow and black) 80% gone
Waterman Blue-Black; washed away

Stage 5; take the Xylene test sheet and expose it to Formula 409;
Noodlers inks; unaffected
Uni-Ball; unaffected
Bic Crystal; 90% gone
Sharpie; indistinct black blob
Fisher Bullet; medium feathering
Zebra 701; no further effects
Waterman Blue-Black; out of the running

Stage 6; expose the Xylene test sheet to water;
Noodlers inks; unaffected
Uni-Ball; unaffected
Bic Crystal; 95% gone
Sharpie; featureless black blob
Fisher Bullet; medium-heavy feathering
Zebra 701; no further effects
Waterman Blue-Black; Disqualified, nothing there at all

From this most unscientific (and confusing) test, I can gather the following info;

the clear winners in this test are the Noodler's "Bulletproof" inks, they *are* truly eternal, any ink that can stand up to Xylene exposure so powerful that it strips toner off the *other side of the paper* has real staying power, for some reason, however, the Noodlers took more damage from the 409 than from the Xylene, the 409 caused light feathering, but did not remove the ink from the paper

for some reason, the 409 was a tougher test than the Xylene for the Noodlers, yet the Noodler's shrugged off the Xylene which really hit the other inks bad

the Uni-Ball Signo did surprisingly well, not bad for a $2 pen, the pigment-based ink it uses is almost as durable as the Noodlers

the Sharpie was a surprise as well, it really was hit bad by the Xylene, and once damaged by it, other chemicals and even plain old water exposure really made it worse

the Fisher bullet feathered more than i thought it would, but it wasn't bad per se

the two biggest dissapointments were the Waterman Blue-Black, that failed the simple water test, and the Bic Crystal Gel wich just did nothing well, it was mediocre all around

the biggest surprise overall was the Zebra 701, it held up far longer than I thought it would

So; Day 1 final rankings;

First Place; Noodler's Luxury Blue and Manhattan Black, these inks are truly bulletproof
Second Place; Uni-Ball Signo; in terms of durability per dollar, it's a clear winner, the best value of any of the inks/pens
Third Place; Fisher Bullet; it feathered more than expected, but ended up just a hair behind the Uni-Ball in final readability
Honorable Mention; Zebra 701, it put up a valiant fight, and performed far better than expected, but ultimately it *did* fail

Biggest Dissapointments;
Sharpie and Bic Crystal, just no real durability to speak of...

I took a look at the Xylene sheet that I exposed to 409 before heading home, at this point the paper was dry, a bit on the curly side, but still usable, however, there *was* some faint feathering from the Noodler's inks, still readable, i'd hazard a guess less than 5% feathering

*something* in that 409 really reacts with Noodlers......

later that evening, after work, I was looking through my old aquarium supplies, and found a bottle of Melafix (1% Melaleuca Alternafolia Tea Tree oil), Melaleuca oil is a very powerful natural solvent, even 1% is very pungent, has a kind of pine-y, citruss-y aroma

So I grabbed another sheet;
Noodler's Luxury Blue and Manhattan Black; definite feathering and runniness, probably 10-15% depending on how heavy the ink was laid down, definite blurring of letters, still readable though, and obvious that the ink had been tampered with
Cross Fine-Point ballpoint; maybe 5% feathering
Fisher Space Pen; 30% or so feathering, this one was hit hard by the melaleuca oil, letters are getting a little blobby
Waterman Blue-Black; GONE! nothing but a blue blur
Parker Quink; GONE! nothing but a black blur

expose the melaleuca treated sheet to water...
....Fascinating.....
the Noodlers inks actually got *less* feathery, it looks like the water was simply washing away some of the ink that didn't bond with the paper, ink that the melaleuca oil loosened
Cross; same thing, a little sharper
Fisher; same thing; the water was simply washing away the "excess" ink that didn't bond with the paper
Waterman Blue Black; wait a minute, I'm *sure* i wrote something here, but there's nothing to see, no evidence of ink....
Parker Quink; same thing, nothing there

so, the powerful solvent Melaleuca oil only loosened the excess ink on the Noodler's, Cross and Fisher line, but obliterated Quink and Waterman B/B....

then again, obliterating Waterman B/B and Quink isn't exactly difficult then, is it?

Yesterday at work, I decided to do a little "Check Washing" test, I grabbed one of my old voided checks, and inked it up with Noodlers, the Uni-Ball Signo 207, a generic Paper-Mate ball-point, a Bic Crystal Gel, a Fisher Bullet, and Zebra 701 ball-point, the check was allowed to dry completely between "treatments"

Test 1; Xylene exposure;
Noodlers; unaffected
Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected
Bic Gel; unaffected
Paper-Mate Ball-point; *heavy* feathering, and 50% reduction in ink intensity
Fisher Bullet; heavy feathering, but otherwise unaffected
Zebra 701; unaffected
Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, the check is riddled with red and blue spots which do not fade after the xylene dries, it's obvious the check has been tampered with

Test 2; expose the Xylene-d check to a water rinse (one minute, hot water)
Noodlers; unaffected
Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected
Bic Gel; 90% washed away, only a faint residue of ink remains
Paper-Mate Ball-point; 95% washed away, almost completely gone
Fisher Bullet; heavy blobbing, the letters are starting to run together
Zebra 701; 10% reduction in ink intensity
Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, the spots become more prominent with water exposure

Test 3; Expose the Xylene-d and hot water rinsed check to 409;
at this point, the check is unusable anyway, so at this point, all I'm trying to do is remove the Noodler's and Uni-Ball inks, both inks are pigment-based and bond with the cellulose fibers in the paper, in theory, making them unremovable without damaging the paper in the process
Noodlers; unaffected
Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected
Bic Gel; 97% washed away, only a faint residue of ink remains
Paper-Mate Ball-point; 98% washed away, almost completely gone
Fisher Bullet; heavy blobbing, the letters are starting to run together
Zebra 701; 50% reduction in ink intensity, the ink is black directly out of the pen, now it's a faint blue
Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, the spots become more prominent with water exposure, but not much change with 409

Test #4; Lysol Household cleaner with Bleach applied to the Xylene/water/409'ed check;
Noodlers; unaffected
Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected
Bic Gel; Completely gone! like it wasn't even there....
Paper-Mate Ball-point; completely gone, no evidence of any lettering
Fisher Bullet; blobbing is gone, but the ink has faded a good 90%, faint, grayish-black but still readable
Zebra 701; Completely gone!
Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, hitting the check with Bleach *REALLY* activated the anti-tampering features, the check now has an ugly brown cast on it

Final thoughts;
It kind of scares me at how easy it was to remove the ball-point ink, and considering a large percentage of checks and such are written with the mundane, classic ball-point pen, it's a little unnerving to see the ink removed with so little effort, ball-points in general are less secure than pigment-based pens like the Uni-Ball Signo or Permanent fountain pen inks, pigment based inks actually soak into the paper fibers, bonding with the paper and staining the cellulose fibers, ball-point ink sits on top of the paper and if it bonds at all with the paper, it's barely with the top of the paper, bleach strips off ball-point ink terrifyingly effectively, it....just....dissolves

the solution is obvious, if you want the most secure ink for writing checks or signing legal documents, you need to use a fountain pen with Permanent ink, or a pigment based roller-ball (like the Signo) something that sinks into the paper fibers and bonds with them, nothing short of a direct thermonuclear blast will affect Noodlers or the Uni-Ball Signo ink, once it's on paper, it's permanent

Pen/ink ratings;
Noodler's "Bulletproof" inks; Honesty in advertising, this ink withstands every attempt to remove it, the only effective means of removing Noodler's will damage the paper beyond the point of usability, this ink *IS* permanent and eternal
Uni-Ball Signo 207; a great sleeper of a pen, in terms of value for the money
Bic Gel; smooth writing, but ultimately not secure
Paper-Mate; horrible performance and easily removed ink
Fisher Bullet; decent performance, the best ball-point of the group, even though the ink does run and feather when exposed to solvents, it doesn't become unreadable or fade completely away
Zebra 701; surprisingly good performance for a non-pressurized mundane ball-point pen, easily outperforms the Paper-Mate, but not the Fisher Bullet

Basically, if you want a durable ink in your fountain pen, the only real choice is Noodler's, if you just want a good, basic, secure pen and don't want to spend a lot, get the Uni-Ball Signo 207, it passed the same brutal chemical assaults that the Noodler's did

Before I went to my apartment last night, I decided to stop off at home and scare Mom and Dad with my newfound knowledge...

I took a couple voided checks, inked them up with various inks, and tried my final chemical test...

91% Isopropyl alcohol

the effects were *immediate*
Noodlers; unaffected
Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected
Cross ballpoint; 5 seconds for smearing to occur, ink gone after about a minute or so
Fisher Space Pen; 5 seconds for heavy smearing, ink 98% gone after about 2 minutes

Both Mom and Dad were shall we say, stunned at how easily ballpoint ink vanished from the check, but what scared me is the fact that the alcohol barely triggered the tamper-proof ink on the check, unless you knew what to look for, you wouldn't notice the tiny, faint blue and red dots on the check paper, and when the alcohol fully dried, the paper was just as pliable and unwrinkled as it was before it's alcohol bath.

a cursory glance of the check shows nothing suspicious, it looks like a _blank_ check (aside from the Noodlers and Uniball ink writing), there is just *no* ballpoint ink left on the check, the alcohol removed it totally

So, after i showed them how easy it was to wash a check, I gave each of them a Uni-Ball Signo 207, and reccomended they use it, they were quite appreciative, yes I should have given them fountain pens loaded with Noodler's, but neither of them would appreciate a "high maintenance" pen, sadly

It's great to have a technically-minded, analytical son who does all sorts of unneccecary but cool experiments...

Great experiments! I need to get me some Noodlers..


Oh and for the Surefire and Spyderco references. 2 awesome companies for sure.

Great article! I wonder how the ubiquitous Parker Jotter ballpoint refills would fair under your tests.

-Mike

Neat. I had read about the bulletproof ink in a 207 and have one but never tested it.


On the Noodlers side you can add steaming hot / boiling bleach, ammonia, and vinegar (acetic acid). No effect.

I have yet to try hydrogen peroxide, and a mixture of H2O2 50/50 with vinegar which vigorously attacks certain materials.

Good idea. I'll test one tonight, i'd bet they'd respond somewhere between the Cross BP and the Paper-Mate (no resistance to alcohol/bleach)

I may have some old photo chemicals left over as well, which means I can try Indicator Stop Bath (Glacial Aceitic Acid) and the hardener from Kodak Rapid Fix (Sulfuric Acid)

Here's a little teaser of the next chemical to be tested....



Cue Evil Laughter! BWAHAHAHA!

Well...this was fascinating, and unexpected....
I'll let the pictures do the talking....

91% Isopropyl Alcohol;





Sulfuric Acid;

Mac,

These are great tests, thank you!! (Edited comment out. Apparently I've been using Signos for a year now and didn't know it. Never looked at the name, but I knew what I liked. WOO HOO!) Thank you for taking the time to do these tests and post your results. Great stuff.

Welcome to the forum, too! Nice to see a fellow flashaholic, too! Love my SF's!!

~~King

I've long been a fan of the Uni-ball Vision (which apparently uses the same ink as the signo).

I've also done a few tests like exposing the writing to steam, for example.

Three solvents I'd like to see:
* Chloroform. (Yes, it's used to knock people out in the movies... it's also a commonly used solvent for chromatography)
* Acetone (I take that back - Noodler's is unaffected.)
* Methanol/Ethanol (probably similar to Isopropyl)
* Nitromethane (as likely to eat the paper as the ink... though it would take months). Used to strip paint, and to give alcohol burning engines more kick.
* Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) My brother calls this stuff the "universal organic solvent". It's so powerful that after skin exposure to DMSO you'll begin to taste it (described as oyster or garlic like) as the stuff is absorbed through the skin and into your blood. DMSO absorbs through skin easily, and then allows other things to get through as well. I've heard if you then dip your finger in cola you'll start tasting the cola after a few minutes. It can be dangerous stuff; by itself it's pretty benign and even helpful, but it affects human tissue enough that many things your skin comes in contact with can be absorbed through the skin and into the bloodstream - be it prescription drugs (it is used in many patch drugs), cola, fruit juice, gasoline, soap, ink, poison, etc. Skin still stays intact if exposure is brief, but the protective 'barrier' of the skin is lost in the exposed area for a while.

+3 for Surefire!

And Scott Clawson (Milkyspit) is the Richard Binder of Surefires.

I think something attracts us to bulletproof qualities...

Thanks to you, I have bit the bullet and bought a Uni-Ball Signo 207 and two spare UMR-87 refills. Excellent ink flow, though I'm not completely won over by the squishy/slimy grip. Does not inspire confidence.

I must now deface a couple of checks. I want to show the simple Isopropyl alcohol test to steadfast non-believer.

Thanks for these results. It's more than I wanted to go through, and I'm grateful you were willing.

How about the Sulfuric Acid drain cleaner?
Hell, try Drano?
Then theres this stuff the MTA uses to clean the NYC subways...some lye based solution

I just tested another ink for it's durability, for consistency purposes in my ink torture tests, I've decided to use 91% isopropyl alcohol and Xylene as test chemicals, as they're the easiest for me to get

the pen in question is a ROtring 600 Rollerball with the standard Rotring refill, compared against a Parker Jotter with Parker refill and a Zebra 701;

91% Isopropyl test-
Rotring 600 Rollerball; slight bleeding of a yellowish pigment around the outside edges of the letters, but no reduction in darkness of the ink, no feathering, no smearing, the letters hold up just fine, but just ooze a little yellow,
Parker Ballpoint; 99% removal of ink
Zebra 701; 85% removal of ink, faint readable lettering remains

Xylene test-
Rotring 600 Rollerball; no further degrading of lettering, completely unaffected
Parker Ballpoint; Completely gone, no evidence of ink remains
Zebra 701; 95% removal of ink, there is a faint, readable image, but it's almost gone

As I've stated before, the Zebra 701's refill holds up admirably for an inexpensive clickie ballpoint, but it ultimately has the same weakness to solvents as any other standard ballpoint refill

the Rotring 600 Rollerball's ink refill appears to be bulletproof**, a rather pleasant surprise, I was expecting it to have similar performance (or lack thereof) to the Bic Crystal Gel, which was utterly craptacular

no the Rotring 600's not a Fountain pen (although it appears to share the same barrel, anyone have a spare Rotring 600 front section/nib assembly they'd like to sell? ), but it's definitely a nice pen, I'll write up a review of it this evening and put it in the pen review section

**see update below, for surprising results....

It'd be interesting to see how well the Diamine Registrar's ink fares in all this.

Once again, I'll let the photos do the talking first, and finish with my observations

*BEFORE* shot;


After about 5 minutes of exposure to 91% Isopropyl alcohol;

Looks like the Rotring and, amazingly, the Parker Quink are doing *great*, shrugging off alcohol with ease, and a slight amount of yellowing on the Rotring ink......

After a 5 minute hot water rinse;

a closer look at the final results;


Final thoughts on Ink Torture Test #2....

Once again, Noodler's inks prove their durability with flying colors, and look at how rich blue Luxury Blue is when delivered via dip-pen
as expected, the Parker Jotter and Cross inks were the first to go, the Parker ink dissolved much faster, 90% of the damage to the Parker ink happened within the first 30 seconds, the Cross ink took almost the full 5 minutes to fade away, and once again, the Fisher ink shows surprising durability for a ballpoint, if you *have* to use a ballpoint, the Fisher refils exhibit the most durability

the UniBall Signo ink shows remarkable durability, right up there with Noodler's, the Signo and other rollerballs using this ink are great beater pens

I held out high hopes for the Rotring ink, it flows well, it's a rich, dark black, and the rollerball refill has the feel of a nice fountain pen, it passed the alcohol test well, but utterly failed at the simple water rinse, I retract my earlier statement, Rotring Rollerball ink IS NOT BULLETPROOF!, thus, the Rotring rollerball refill (RRR!) is not sutibale for my use, I want to use durable, bulletproof inks, Noodler's qualifies, as does the UniBall Signo ink, so I cut down a Signo 207 refill and dropped it into the Rotring Rollerball, voila! a well made, "bulletproof" pen that uses "bulletproof" ink

the Mont Blanc rollerball refill was also surprising, surprisingly *bad* paperfeel, scratchy and rough, it felt more like a cheap Bic Stic ballpoint than the supposed "luxury" brand it masquerades as, I was expecting, nay, even *hoping* that this ink would fail so I could laugh and rejoyce at the utter failure of a "poseur" pen brand, I was looking forward to emitting a hearty, Nelson Muntz-esque "HA-HAA!" at the craptacular performance of the MB ink....

I was wrong, say what you will about the thoroughly horrible paperfeel and gritty roller ball refill itself, i can't deny that the ink itself performed admirably well, I wonder if the ink in the MB rollerball is the same Iron Gall ink used in MB's fountain pens?

taking the ink itself into account, it does lay down a nice, intense black, darker than the UniBall, and right up there with Noodler's Old Manhattan, it just needs a better delivery system

the Parker Quink performed admirably in the alcohol bath, it performed so well that I thought it might have been cross-contaminated with some residue of the Noodler's Black i had previously run in the orange reground Waterman Kultur that I had just turned into an eyedropper pen, so that's why i used the dip pen to put down some pure, unadulterated Quink to test against

Biggest surprise in the test? the Mont Blanc rollerball refills, I'm torn between returning them to Staples, as they don't really fit in the Rotring 600 RB, and there's no safe way to cut the refill down to size as there is with the plastic UniBall refill, but I do like how the ink performs, then again, I can get the same performance for a quarter of the price with the UniBall refills, and they can be trimmed to fit the Rotring

Biggest dissapointment? the Rotring 600 Rollerball cartridge, I LOVE the 600 RB pen itself (I still want to find a FP nib and converter for it though, i'm 90% certain that the RB and FP share the same barrel and cap), but the non-bulletproof ink is a real dealbreaker for me

<EDIT>
I've almost done the *unthinkable* (no, not willingly used a Bic Stic... ) I've *almost* removed Noodler's Luxury Blue from paper, i'd say that 75% of the ink has been removed.....

....although the paper's in pretty rough shape....

I found a bottle of "Super Clean" degreaser that i had previously used to strip the anodizing from Aircraft Aluminum, I was removing the type II anodizing from my SureFire 6P, it also removed the Type III Mil-Spec anodizing from a Executive series SureFire, it's some powerful stuff....

active ingredients are;
Butoxyethanol, Nonyl Phenol Polyethoxylate, Sodium Xylene Sulfonate, and Sodium Hydroxide (the active ingredient that removes the anodizing from aluminum)

Before;


After;


I can finally point at the Mont Blanc ink and say [Nelson Muntz] HA-HAA![/Nelson], the Super Clean *Super-Obliterated* the horribly overpriced, underperforming Mont Blanc ink, it was outperformed by the Fisher Space Pen BALLPOINT ink, even the lowly $2 Uni-Ball Signo outperformed it, admittedly the Signo *WAS* hit hard and did lose some intensity, but nowhere near as bad as the Mont Blanc

and Noodler's Old Manhattan Black stands proud and tall, unaffected by whatever I throw at it....

Ink Micrography - observations of how ink interacts with paper on the microscopic level;

I've been playing around with my inexpensive Radio Shack hand-held microscope, I zoomed the magnification out to 100X, and observed how the ink interacted with the paper fibers;

Paper-Mate ballpoint; the ink is *clearly* just lying on the surface, i'd say about 30% of the paper fibers are stained with ink, and there are distinct areas of paper fibers untouched by the ink, even in the ink path itself

Zebra 701 ballpoint; even worse performance, only about 15% of the paper fiber is stained, not sure if this is due to the refill being a fine point, or just a characteristic of the ink, because the Zebra ink withstands chemicals and water better than the Paper Mate

Uni-Ball Signo Medium point; 98% of the paper fibers in the ink path have been stained, and it's clear that the ink has sunken into the paper fibers, the only fibers without ink on them are those on the surface, they're aren't many though

Fisher Bullet; this one looks closer to the Uni-Ball than the other ballpoints, it appears that some of the Fisher ink has actually sunken into the paper fibers, but there are also lots of unstained fibers in the ink path as well, probably 35% coverage

Waterman Fine Point Kultur with Noodler's Old Manhattan Black; 100% coverage, *ALL* paper fibers in the ink path have been stained by the ink, it looks rich and dark, all the light from the tiny incandescent bulb in the microscope is absorbed into the ink, no shiny spots or unstained paper fibers

Rotring 600 with Fine point Uni-Ball Signo refill; 99% ink coverage, not as intensely black as the Noodler's, but no unstained fibers either, where there were unstained fibers in the Uni-Ball medium point, there are only "partially" stained fibers in the Rotring/UniBall sample

Lamy 2000 with Noodler's OMB; do the words "Quantum Singularity" mean anything to you, if anything, we're talking 105% coverage, all light from the microscope bulb is absorbed, it's difficult to make out any detail in the paper fibers in the ink path, they're....just....black no lighter spots, no unstained fibers, total ink coverage

I also looked at some of my work orders with the crappy paper under 100X magnification, and it's clear that the paper is lower quality, you can count the individual wood pulp fibers, and see where small amounts of OMB has run off in different directions following the "grain" of the pulp, by means of comparison, the "good" paper has a much smoother finish, the individual paper fibers are much harder to discern, they have a more "rounded off" appearance, whereas the crappy paper has "sharper" fibers

I'll try to get some pictures of the ink micrography, but it's going to be tough as I have no USB microscope, and I'll have to jury-rig together my RS microscope and digicam, probably with liberal use of duct tape or something....

Fascinating! Would love to see pics if you can manage it...

Have you tested uni-ball Vision Elites yet? I'd like to know how your tests fair with that ink.

Vision Elite is supposed to use the same ink as the Uni-Ball Signo that was tested.

Fantastic tests and enlightening results - particularly the ballpoint and rollerball results. I've used some of the Uniball pens for awhile and the ink does appear to be pretty reliable when I need one.

One ink that would be very interesting to see is the Pilot G-2 refills - as I use them in a Waterman rollerball body with some regularity when not using a fountain pen. I seem to recall something on the packaging about archival qualities but I might be mistaken. Nevertheless, I know that it is a popular rollerball among many here on FPN so I suspect others may also enjoy seeing those results.

Archival is not necessarily even water resistant let alone fraud resistant. It just means it won't fade, breakdown over time, or cause other things to deteriorate over time...

The G-2 ink is not water proof; most of the ink will run was off under the tap, more than I would have thought.

Well done! I would add tests for two other pens: UV light wand with acid as a combo on the "famous rollerball" and simple acetone or rubbing alcohol with the Jotter (acetone will not damage water marks, yet removes ball point ink in seconds). Remember the bleach tests too... Laser printer ink? Hot light bulb under the paper and a magnet above....see what happens. ;-)

In addition: Heart of Darkness vrs. the famous $2 to $4 rollarball
Compare the word count and volume of inks and that "$2" quickly becomes much more than "just $2". Heart of Darkness was made as an extreme value argument in favor of the fountain pen vrs. the roller ball. You see, the same volume in a single bottle of Noodler's Black equals about 50 of those famous fraud resisting rollerball pens. Heart of Darkness equals about 75 - a much more dramatic comparison (especially since it can be found now and then for only $16). Do the math...and which pen/ink combo is the REAL best buy???? By a long shot....and you don't waste the energy of recycling (or filling a landfill) with 50 to 75 disposable units. Just one free eyedropper pen is enough to consume the 4.5 oz. bottle...and then some. Why use more petroleum for all that plastic than is necessary...when the free pen lasts so much longer?

Noodler's does not make cartridges. The LOWEST COST for cartridges IN THE WORLD still equals $38 per bottle equivalent cost. Unless or until we can make them so that the full retail cost of the ink in cartridge form equals that of the bottle....we will not be offering cartridges. Most cartridges today add up to hundreds of dollars over the cost of bottled ink - which would bother my conscience if Noodler's were associated with that racket in any way. Glass costs less than plastic now with oil so highly priced - and it is more easily recycled. I'm not writing this as an environmentalist. I'm just frugal and believe others want the best deal too. ;-)

Anyone care for an ink with a free eyedropper pen enclosed with the bottle that can write on glass?

Absolutely!

I'm fascinated by the variety of inks Noodler's offers. I still want to find a way to get some of the multi-density inks into my all-but-frozen hands (dang that office thermostat).

I should have my Aesthetic Bay order sorted out soon, and that will mean that I'll have most of the easily-obtained colors available.

Heart of Darkness is destined to be one of those "great inks." I love using it, made sure I have at least two bottles of it on hand. I love the free eyedroppers, too.

I've tried to convince some that using this ink is better than rollerballs and ballpoints, but even with testing proof, they won't touch it. I love that I'm not adding any more than necessary to the landfills with the forever plastics, and that glass bottles can so easily be recycled. I think my conscience is clear as far as "justification" for using fountain pens. However, I don't need any justification to be sensible and have fun, too.

Me too!

Try bleach.

Oh, I'm sure it wouldn't survive as well as your eternal inks, but I was just wondering what it would fail with vs. what it wouldn't. What you call morbid curiosity. I have to drive two hours to get to the nearest source of Diamine, and so far I've resisted the temptation.

I'm interested in ink to write on glass too! (maybe plastic while we're at it???)

and I'll put in my vote of Heart of Darkness as a great ink.

Most definitely, I'd love one, Nathan

I'll definitely try some more tests on Noodler's and other inks, once I get my Lamy pens back from repair

I'll do an extended UV exposure test with my flourescent blacklight, and maybe even some of my aquarium test chemicals, some of the Ammonia and Nitrate test chemicals are quite caustic

I still think it'd e a great idea for Noodler's to market a "Mystery Ink" to us fanatics, I'd buy a bottle or two....

reading back on some of Nathan's older threads, I really was intrigued by the radio-reactive ink, I wonder how it'd react to the 2.4 GHz or 5.2 Ghz signals of AirPort wireless networking.....

It'd be interesting to test that hypothesis here on Infinite Loop, but I don't think the IT guys would like it if it did react.

I just got my Lamy 2000 back from repair, and there was a little bit of Lamy Black let in it, so I put it to my at-work solvent tests

this ink appears to be blue-black (Iron Gall?)

I wrote a couple lines of text on an index card, let them dry for about a half hour, then exposed the paper to 91% Isopropyl alcohol, there was some faint bluish feathering but the letters themselves seemed unaffected, so Lamy Blue-Black definitely is alcohol resistant
I then hit it with Bleach, and the letters *immediately* lost 95% of their visibility, turning a faint green, there was still visible lettering, but it was drastically compromised
I gave the paper a final water rinse, and was dismayed when the remaining black ink untouched by bleach began to fade, losing about 50% of their visibility

pity, really, the Lamy ink had promise, but still could not dethrone Old Manhattan Black for raw durability

[edit]
2 hours later, the only remains of the Lamy ink is a faint, illegible yellow stain

Isn't that six solvents? I guess it's time to use up some of my lab supplies for ahem! non-lab purposes. Oops, did I spill some solvent? Let me wipe it up with this sheet of paper that has Noodler's ink on it... I suppose I ought to add toluene, chlorobenzene. Let it be known that someone's tax dollars may be up to no good.

This most definitely reminds me of the Peep Experiments.

I'll never tell.

About those Peep Experiments? ZOMG, that's funny.

"As can be seen to the right, although the Peep body was dissolved by phenol, the eyes were not. In fact, Peep eyes were insoluble in all the solutions which were tested."

Okay, here's a preview of my haphazard solvent testing. I'll edit the post when I find our DMSO...

Click to view attachment

Two inks, Noodler's Bulletproof Black and my $2.50 Uniball Signo DX, both of which are known to be waterproof. And, for kicks, a Sharpie streak down the middle.

I dropped a drop (from squirt bottle, pipettor, whatever was handy) on each word, and allowed the solvent to dry (not very long). The drop's anywhere from 10-20 uL, but it easily spread to cover most of the name of the solvent. Sorry, I didn't immerse the entire paper in the solvent, just trying to go for the quick effects (and I'm trying to not steal too much solvent!)

Boringly enough, nothing happened to either of the pens. I chose wisely for my lab pens! We know the Noodler's reacts with celluose, which means it's not just sitting on top of the paper, like the Sharpie clearly is was. I wonder how the gel pen gets away with insolubility? Does it polymerize on the paper?

Solvents used: alcohols (methanol=wood alcohol, ethanol=drinking alcohol, isopropanol=rubbing alcohol), acetone, toluene, chloroform, chlorobenzene, xylenes, hexanes

Very nice work, Kirianth, dont'cha just love it how the Noodler's and Signo are unaffected, yet the Sharpie, the one pen people *expect* to be permanent performs the worst

Tonight, I tried what I thought would be a powerful organic solvent, Melaleuca Tea Tree Oil, as expected, all the tested bulletproof Noodler's were unaffected (OMB, Lux. Blue, Fox Red, Hunter Green, YOTGP), surprisingly, the non-buletproof inks were unaffected as well (Noodler's Habanero, Rotring 600 Rollerball, and Signo 207), the only inks affected were ballpoints, the Fisher Space Pen lost about 60% of it's density, the Parker Jotter was relatively unaffected

It wasn't as powerful as I thought,especially due to it's strong, pungent, citrussy/pine-y smell