Can you tell by looking at a restored Black Hard Rubber pen if the rubber color has been restored? Is there any clues?

Do I correctly assume that an original black pen is more valuable than one that has faded and then had the color restored?

MAc,
Being the producer of PMBHRPPNo9, I have had some experience with restored color on BHR pens. Good color restoration is very hard to tell from a mint pen with the naked eye, but I would bet that if you had a few restored and a few non-restored "mint" pens side by side you could tell them part. Even with Mint pens, there is a minor amount of aging that keeps them form looking brand spanking new. Usually restrored pens look "too new".

Here are a few tips:

1) The first thing to look for is the fine details. A truely mint pen will have crisp small details: the machining will be sharp (BCHR) the name stamp will be deep and crisp, and all the angles where one plane connects with another will be uniform in shape around the pen. Restored color pens may not have these sharp fine detail features. A worn pen may be restored as to color, but the fine details will not be as sharp as a mint pen

2) If the pen looks to be brand new and VERY shiny you should be suspicious (some folks do wax pens so this is not a dead give-away all the time).

3) Naked BHR will smell like burnt rubber if rubbed with the finger to produce a little friction, restored pens do not usually give off the same smell. PMBHRPPNo9 for example puts fresh carbon black on the surface, and while it encapsuleates the old hard rubber and even protects it from oxidation better and from UV, it does not have that burnt rubber smell.

4) Look inside the Cap. Most retoration processes are not done by emersion, so the inside of the cap may tell the rest of the story.

5) Use your common sense. If the pen is all that "mint", where is the box and the original papers that came with the pen? How is it that this great looking "mint" pen happens to be lying around without such material? Lucky find? Too good to be true?

6) And finally, (maybe this should be rule number 1) you should know your seller and his/her reputation for honesty. This assumes that you are buying your "MINT" pen from a reputable dealer, and that they can or should be trusted. They should be willing to give you a certification or authentication of some kind in writing that what you are buying is not restored. The seller should be willing to let you have the pen inspected by a real pen mechanic and be willing to refund your money if it does not pass the test. AS FOR FINDING PENS IN THE WILD...YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

In the case of Pensbury Manor Black Hard Rubber Pen Potion No.9, I did not set out to make a treatment that would make pens look "just like new". The goal was to make the pen black again so it looked good enough to want to use. I have a nice old (not even close to mint looking from the fine details point of view) Wahl Pen #74 that has a sweet Wahl stub nib that I will gladly pick up and put in my pocket for daily use because it is such a sweet writer. I would not be so inclined if the pen was stained mottled khaki green brown in color.

As to your second question, it depends. In general and as my admonition on on restoration on my website, and the instructions for PMBHRPPNo9 clearly assert: An unrestored item may have significantly more value than a restored one, so do not restore an item that is rare or of intrinsic significant collector value. However from a UTILITARIAN standpoint, a restored daily user may be worth more than than an unrestored read nasty) daily user to many people from a purely aesthetic point of view. (We are talking about an order of magnitude of Tens of dollars here, not hundreds).


Syd the Wahlnut
www.pensburmanor.com

Good post, Syd.
I think I should point out that some of the points you make do not apply to pens treated with the G-10 process.
1. G-10 does not alter the crispness of fine surface detail. The dye penetrates the hard rubber, does not coat it. There is no alteration of surface detail, even under magnification.
2. G-10 brings out the smell of hard rubber, does not hide it. It renovates the ebonite, which exhudes the usual burnt rubber smell.
As for all your other comments, I agree with you completely. Thanks for a very informative post!
Giovanni

Gio, Good points. When I talked about the crispness of details, I did not mean to imply that the treatment is what makes the details less crisp, but rather that a pen that was already worn before treatment would not have crisp details and therefore people should be suspicious of a brand a new looking pen that has worn down details.

Neither G-10 nor PMBHRPPNo9 reduces crispness to any measurable degree. As you know, even the PMBHRPPNo9 is only 30-40 microns thick after curing and that is not enough to obscure details either.

I have not smelled you pens lately, but I will take your word for the odor you describe.

Syd

Giovanni;

The problem I have with G-10 (and if only used on user grade pens this problem is largely negated) is that it is permanent and therefore not good restoration as restoration techniques should be reversable. This is where Syd's potion is superior to G-10 in that it lives up to the restoration tenant of reversibility.

A lot does lie in the eye of the owner. Does the owner look at the pen as a collectible? Then reblacking should never be done, it has no place in a collection. Does the owner view this as a pen they want to use? An attractive black pen is generally more appealing than the variety of naturally occurring colors hard rubber achieves. The problem here is how does a subsequent owner feel about the pen. Maybe it was a user pen and now is considered an improperly restored collectible piece. This should be a consideration prior to any reblacking.

Untouched pens are always more valuable from a collectors viewpoint, much as a properly reblacked pen is enhanced in the view of the user. The big difference here is the underlying pen in question to the collector is often worth substantially more than the user grade pen. Users owe it to themselves to do a little research and make sure that they are not damaging a pen that a collector would pay a large premium to remain in its natural state. A common pen in common condition n - no real harm no real foul - and the user is not hurting themselves. Something rare...well that's a loss to collectors everywhere.

Roger W.

Interesting discussion. Thank you all for contributing. How can I find out more about Giovanni's G-10 product. I was able to locate Syd's web site and read about his product.

I would say the conclusion would be to leave an obvious collectible alone and it may be OK to re-color a user pen. The judgment call being that would the user be a collectible in a few years.

And, once the product is put on the pen you may not be able to obviously tell that it has been artificially colored. There are a few clues to look for but nothing that just would jump out at you.

Thanks guys.
Mac

Roger, I can't disagree. If a pen is very valuable and needs to preserved, I would say that it should be left alone. I never suggested otherwise. The G-10 process gives a surface finish that is indistinguishable from that of a new, non oxidised pen. If there is surface wear, it will, of course, still be detectable after reblackening.
The end result, on a user pen, is stunning. Anyone who has seen a reblackened pen done with G-10 can attest to the uniformity of the color, the smoothness of the surface and the absolute lack of any surface coating that may obscure (even if lightly) the surface details of CHR. The color does not rub off even after continued use, since it does penetrate and impregnate the hard rubber.
I love the fact that there is a reversible alternative and also that Syd's potion #9 can be easily applied by the pen owner.
There is a place for both products in the market nad rare and historically precious pens should be left alone (but let us not forget that the owner paid for the pen and can ultimately do with it as he likes...)
Giovanni

Mac, The G-10 process is solely licensed for application through Richard Binder. His web is www.richardspens.com.