Full Version: Are Cross Pens still Made in the USA?
Yes, and they would probably be even more expensive!
Fortunately I don't give a toss about 'product status'....I buy things to use, not to create an impression, nor, with a view to maximising re-sale value.
Anyway, as has been said, the view of Japanese products used to be that they were almost exclusively cheap & nasty copies of Western-made items.
Few would say that now.....I guess that sooner or later it will be the same with Chinese goods.
Anyway, as has been said, the view of Japanese products used to be that they were almost exclusively cheap & nasty copies of Western-made items.
Few would say that now.....I guess that sooner or later it will be the same with Chinese goods.
QUOTE (JonDoh @ Jul 9 2008, 11:35 AM) 
Like most things made in China it is a matter of extremely poor quality while keeping the price at the same level or in many instances raising it.
Please don't start down this path. This is a sweeping statement about Chinese manufacturing that is unsupportable, much as was said about Japanese products only 25 years ago. It also will sound to some of our members in Asia as bordering on racism.
Many very high priced and high quality products are made in China. Many very fine consumer products are made there as well.
If you want to discuss the specific quality of Cross products, you are welcome to do that.
This is not a specific warning to a specific person. I'll lock the thread or delete posts if I see this heading that way.
Cheers,
Jim Mamoulides
www.PenHero.com
I think most people are not considering one important point when it comes to products that are "Made in China".
First, the stereotype is that Chinese products are cheap (i.e. inexpensive cheap plastic knockoffs, etc.). That leads to people thinking that everything from China is cheap.
Here's the one important point: There's a difference between Chinese products made in China, and other products made in China (i.e. American products outsourced to the Chinese).
What's the difference? The company. Consider the following quality comparisons:
1. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in the USA.
2. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in the USA.
3. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in China.
4. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in China.
I'm sure that most of you agree that for #1, 2 and 4, Cross clearly beats BIC in the quality department. But what about #3? Is a USA-made BIC pen better than a Chinese-made Cross? Probably not.
Now comparing Cross against itself (USA vs. China), my argument is this: The quality of the pen does not decrease, because nothing has changed except for the person doing the work. If they're using the same materials, the same machinery and the same manufacturing/quality control processes, the only variable left is that the factory worker is Chinese instead of American (but I can also argue that Chinese people could've worked in the American plant!). So the underlying factor is wages... and my argument for that is that lower wages doesn't necessarily mean lower quality. Wages in China are lower because the cost of living is lower, and the availability of labour is high... the more people you have that are willing and able to work, the less you have to pay them. If America had 1 billion citizens who can buy their groceries for $1 a day, you wouldn't need to pay them $20/hour to manufacture pens.
Back to the idea of using the same materials, machinery and manufacturing processes... that is Cross. The company designs the pens, dictates how they are to be made, what they are to be made from, and reject the ones that don't meet their standards. If Cross keeps everything the same after the move to China, then there is really no difference between an American-made pen and a Chinese-made pen. It's all psychological.
I can't say the same for Hero vs. Parker, though. In that case, we're comparing two different companies with two different business models, which could result in different product qualities.
First, the stereotype is that Chinese products are cheap (i.e. inexpensive cheap plastic knockoffs, etc.). That leads to people thinking that everything from China is cheap.
Here's the one important point: There's a difference between Chinese products made in China, and other products made in China (i.e. American products outsourced to the Chinese).
What's the difference? The company. Consider the following quality comparisons:
1. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in the USA.
2. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in the USA.
3. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in China.
4. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in China.
I'm sure that most of you agree that for #1, 2 and 4, Cross clearly beats BIC in the quality department. But what about #3? Is a USA-made BIC pen better than a Chinese-made Cross? Probably not.
Now comparing Cross against itself (USA vs. China), my argument is this: The quality of the pen does not decrease, because nothing has changed except for the person doing the work. If they're using the same materials, the same machinery and the same manufacturing/quality control processes, the only variable left is that the factory worker is Chinese instead of American (but I can also argue that Chinese people could've worked in the American plant!). So the underlying factor is wages... and my argument for that is that lower wages doesn't necessarily mean lower quality. Wages in China are lower because the cost of living is lower, and the availability of labour is high... the more people you have that are willing and able to work, the less you have to pay them. If America had 1 billion citizens who can buy their groceries for $1 a day, you wouldn't need to pay them $20/hour to manufacture pens.
Back to the idea of using the same materials, machinery and manufacturing processes... that is Cross. The company designs the pens, dictates how they are to be made, what they are to be made from, and reject the ones that don't meet their standards. If Cross keeps everything the same after the move to China, then there is really no difference between an American-made pen and a Chinese-made pen. It's all psychological.
I can't say the same for Hero vs. Parker, though. In that case, we're comparing two different companies with two different business models, which could result in different product qualities.
QUOTE (Cross Contamination @ Aug 2 2008, 07:00 PM)
I think most people are not considering one important point when it comes to products that are "Made in China".
First, the stereotype is that Chinese products are cheap (i.e. inexpensive cheap plastic knockoffs, etc.). That leads to people thinking that everything from China is cheap.
Here's the one important point: There's a difference between Chinese products made in China, and other products made in China (i.e. American products outsourced to the Chinese).
What's the difference? The company. Consider the following quality comparisons:
1. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in the USA.
2. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in the USA.
3. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in China.
4. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in China.
I'm sure that most of you agree that for #1, 2 and 4, Cross clearly beats BIC in the quality department. But what about #3? Is a USA-made BIC pen better than a Chinese-made Cross? Probably not.
Now comparing Cross against itself (USA vs. China), my argument is this: The quality of the pen does not decrease, because nothing has changed except for the person doing the work. If they're using the same materials, the same machinery and the same manufacturing/quality control processes, the only variable left is that the factory worker is Chinese instead of American (but I can also argue that Chinese people could've worked in the American plant!). So the underlying factor is wages... and my argument for that is that lower wages doesn't necessarily mean lower quality. Wages in China are lower because the cost of living is lower, and the availability of labour is high... the more people you have that are willing and able to work, the less you have to pay them. If America had 1 billion citizens who can buy their groceries for $1 a day, you wouldn't need to pay them $20/hour to manufacture pens.
Back to the idea of using the same materials, machinery and manufacturing processes... that is Cross. The company designs the pens, dictates how they are to be made, what they are to be made from, and reject the ones that don't meet their standards. If Cross keeps everything the same after the move to China, then there is really no difference between an American-made pen and a Chinese-made pen. It's all psychological.
I can't say the same for Hero vs. Parker, though. In that case, we're comparing two different companies with two different business models, which could result in different product qualities.
First, the stereotype is that Chinese products are cheap (i.e. inexpensive cheap plastic knockoffs, etc.). That leads to people thinking that everything from China is cheap.
Here's the one important point: There's a difference between Chinese products made in China, and other products made in China (i.e. American products outsourced to the Chinese).
What's the difference? The company. Consider the following quality comparisons:
1. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in the USA.
2. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in the USA.
3. A BIC pen made in the USA and a Cross pen made in China.
4. A BIC pen made in China and a Cross pen made in China.
I'm sure that most of you agree that for #1, 2 and 4, Cross clearly beats BIC in the quality department. But what about #3? Is a USA-made BIC pen better than a Chinese-made Cross? Probably not.
Now comparing Cross against itself (USA vs. China), my argument is this: The quality of the pen does not decrease, because nothing has changed except for the person doing the work. If they're using the same materials, the same machinery and the same manufacturing/quality control processes, the only variable left is that the factory worker is Chinese instead of American (but I can also argue that Chinese people could've worked in the American plant!). So the underlying factor is wages... and my argument for that is that lower wages doesn't necessarily mean lower quality. Wages in China are lower because the cost of living is lower, and the availability of labour is high... the more people you have that are willing and able to work, the less you have to pay them. If America had 1 billion citizens who can buy their groceries for $1 a day, you wouldn't need to pay them $20/hour to manufacture pens.
Back to the idea of using the same materials, machinery and manufacturing processes... that is Cross. The company designs the pens, dictates how they are to be made, what they are to be made from, and reject the ones that don't meet their standards. If Cross keeps everything the same after the move to China, then there is really no difference between an American-made pen and a Chinese-made pen. It's all psychological.
I can't say the same for Hero vs. Parker, though. In that case, we're comparing two different companies with two different business models, which could result in different product qualities.
Ditto, also since everything today is made by machines the whole pen is practically made by a machine, the same machine they used in the states.
Thanks
Brad
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