Is there a black market for bootleg pens out there? I mean are they fake Watermans and Cross Verves?

I wanna know what and who to avoid (I've read all about this Benz Guy already).

So far it seems the main focus is Montblanc, Parker (mainly the Sonnet) and Dupont. To go to the trouble of making a convincing fake I would think there has to be a large enough potential market to make it worthwhile. Of course chinese manufacturers, like Hero, make a dizzying number of models and maybe the break even point is lower than I might think. Buy from people with positive feedback and with the ability to return a product if it isn't as described.
I think someone here recently bought a fake Montblanc, so it pays to be careful.

Benz is not to be avoided because of fakes. He sells genuine pens, often for reasonable prices. He is to be avoided, in my opinion, because he does a dis-service to the pen community with this hyped-up description and inflated estimated values.

You have to be careful buying Parker Sonnets on Ebay.

The Chinese Hero pens are not really fakes. It says "Hero" on the pens. They are cheap copies of pens such as Parker 51 and 61.

I have a Hero that looks like a Parker 51. It is a nice daily user pen.

Tom

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up.

The point I was making is not that hero pens are fake, but that a chinese company could produce fake pens in lower numbers and at a significantly lower cost and probably make a profit. Hero copies pens and isn't that supposed to be the greatest compliment? I will probably get flamed for this but the Hero 100 series is virtually as good as a Parker 51, the pen it emulates.

Hero copies pens, but it doesn't seem to be involved from what I can tell in the faking of pens. You can easily tell a Hero 616, 330, 329, or even a 100 from a Parker 51/61.

I hear the fake Sonnets are actually pretty good little pens. The problem is that unlike the Hero I can buy for as little as $5, the fake Sonnets seem to sell for at least $20 for a pen without a real gold nib. That's too rich for me to give them a try. I'd also prefer to give the geniuine article a try before trying a fake.

Montblanc, Parker, Dupont are what we usually seen... but fake Danitrio surfaced in Asia not too long ago. These were found on Yahoo auction site in Asia:

Fake on top compare to the real from maki-e book:


Fake Imaginary lions maki-e:




Real "Imaginary Lions":






Fake "wild cherry blossom":




Real "wild cherry blossom":


Kevin

Hmm, what kind of characteristics does one try to look for in pens like the Parker to avoid fakes?

This is all new to me, and it's rather interesting to know.

You need to be very well schooled in the Sonnet to be able to discern the fakes. On some of the worse fakes, the nib reacts to a magnet when the real nib is gold. Even that isn't a good diagnostic because there are apparently many non-gold alloys that can be used that won't react to the magnet and many of the fakes now use such an alloy. On other poor fakes, the fake uses a monotone nib when the real pen uses a bi-color nib.

On top of that, you never know who might be using a photo of a real Sonnet only to send you a fake.

It's enough to make me not want to buy a Sonnet unless it is from a reputable dealer.

As far as I know, the Sonnet is the only Parker that you're in much danger with. I don't know why fake Duofolds aren't popular, but they don't seem to be a real target.

Here's a good article about counterfeit Sonnets.

Here's one about Duponts.

Lots of good info in there. Counterfeiters sure go to great lengths in some cases. Glad I asked now, before I get in too deep, and I'm glad I purchased my Sonnet from a reputable dealer.

Golly. Seems that the counterfeiters go to greater lengths to ensure a high-quality reproduction, than the lengths Parker went to originally to make a high-quality pen! At some point ya gotta wonder where the margin is, either in making these fakes, or in not buying them!

So If I purchase any Sonnet's I think I'll take a trip to the local reputable retailer. There is the fantastic Fountain Pen Hospital (a little pricy though) and there's a place called Montgomery Stationary in lower Manhattan that I can go to. Both are just a quick train ride away from me. From reading some of the posts it sounds like I'm lucky to have 2 reputable dealers that are close to me. Sounds like some of the FPN members have a hard time finding places that sell quality pens.

Any known instrances of counterfiet Parker 45s or 21s? I mean besides the Hero copies. A 45 is on my list and I've seen one for a good price so that may be my next acquisition.

I agree it is remarkable the time, energy and technolgy devoted to making fake pens. I have a fake Dupont that I bought intentionally to have a fake. I wanted to see how good the pen might be. It looks every bit like a Dupont, except it does have a montone nib. Even the box and papers are expertly faked. The pen writes okay, but it is not a Dupont. Time will tell how durable it is.

I consider pen companies like Hero to be legitimate pen manufacturers. I have understood that the legit Chinese pen makers actually were affiliates of the major pen companies before Mao's revolution. When they restarted pen production (in the 1960's?) they had only the machines, tooling and designs of the original pens as their starting point. But they have always put their own names on their pens. I feel it is a shame that those legit manufacturers suffer in the wake of the criminal counterfeiters.

The Cisele Parker 75 is apparently a target for counterfeiters, too.

That makes a good bit of sense. I imagine if you can counterfeit the Sonnet cisele, you'd may as well do the 75 as well.

Read information here: http://azfp.blogspot.com/2007/07/fake-sonnets.html
that can help you identify fake sonnets. It is a collection of links from previous posts on the subject.

Antonios Z.