'Ello all,

I picked up journaling recently to practice my handwriting and pen skills. I've never done much journaling in my life, I never considered myself good at it, lol. I like to (try) to write stories (and occasionally poetry) so I'm mostly writing about that process and attempting to brainstorm for ideas while doing it. People say it's very good for creativity, and it seems like it would be, as when ever I start telling someone else about my ideas I come up with a dozen more. But I'm apparently not good at this form of multitasking of thinking while writing. I can brainstorm (sort of) while doing nothing or talking. I can write while watching tv (sort of hehe). But think of ideas and write them down at the same time, no.

So I was wondering if anyone knew of what the problem might be or what their methods were...

Well, it ain't easy, so cut yourself some slack.

There's a good chapter about this in the beginning of the book The Artist's Way. She recommends three pages of automatic writing every morning. You just write and let go of what you write. You write whatever comes to your mind, no matter what. See, I was about to write "no matter how silly" but the point is to let go of that judgment and just write whatever. Sometimes I've written, "blah blah blah I have no idea what to write right now this whole thing is stupid why am I doing this" but the point is: just keep the pen moving.

It's a lot harder than it sounds, because we're trained from a very early age to have our writing make sense and sound good, at least to our own ears. Or our mind's ears. Whatever. It's really hard to let go of that censor voice in our heads saying "that's no good!" And our censor voice is there for a reason, the point is not to get rid of it, just to be able to go past it when we choose to and when we want to get at a wider range of ideas.

So stick with it and keep going at it. It's difficult, but it's difficult for all the rest of us, too.

When I write a story, I imagine I am telling it to a friend - just let it flow from the pen that way onto notebook paper, double spaced. Then I go back through it and imagine that I am a stranger reading the story for the first time. Bad grammar, bad usage, bad punctuation, non sequiturs, etc. stand out and I fix them between the lines with a fine point. Write it out again, double spaced, and add the stuff you forgot the first time. Look again like a stranger. Rearrange things.

This all looks like a lot of work. Nay! If you have a great-writing fountain pen in your hand, you won't notice the labor.

The trick is not to try too hard with the first draft. If you try to write a finished, polished story into a bound, fancy journal on your first try, you are going to feel posterity staring over your shoulder and the project will die from stage fright. Just pick up a nice pen and an old notebook and "let 'er flicker." After you have written the second draft, burn the first one. There! Nobody will see that thing again, not even, most importantly, and especially you.

Paddler

I know, my inner voice is a grammar nazi, lol. I'll keep trying. Free writing is definitely nothing like any writing I've done before so practice will be my friend. I'm gonna look up that book too.



That's a lot like what I'm trying to do, capture the freeness of a good dialogue on paper. I like your methodology, I'm going to give it a spin.


Thanks guys!!

I've spent most of the past couple of decades writing with a computer keyboard and at first found writing by hand very difficult. The form and content of my words vary tremendously between thinking them, speaking them aloud, writing them down via keyboard (with its cut and paste etc.), and writing by hand. I've had to teach my hand to think while I've been teaching it to write, but it's catching on. But still, handwritten words emanate from a different part of the brain or something...

There's no cut and paste or revising; the pen having writ moves on so don't think of your journal writing as final drafts. They are the opposite, they are contemplations in progress. My sentences change tense in mid stream, and I don't mind recasting a sentence several times in a row. It's interesting to go back and revisit my thought process (or lack thereof).

Beethoven kept a little musical journal. In it we see (hear?) the very early versions of the theme for the last movement of the Ninth Symphony. He keeps revisiting it and changing it and tweaking it and it becomes more and more familiar to us...

I'm starting to go on. Just thinking this might be helpful.

Doug

What works for me is playing EXTREMELY familiar music for a while. If you create a few 15-minute or 20-minute playlists, it can help you get into the flow for a specific period. Sort of like cardio, but for the brain.

I've written about this just recently in my blog. You'll find a number of posts there about journalling, but two I added this week might be particularly relevant:

http://workingonme.squarespace.com/journal...ging-trick.html

http://workingonme.squarespace.com/journal...ur-journal.html

Ray

I'd go along with most of these suggestions and responses above, and I'd say that writing for ideas is different from journalising or diarising, and different from any sort of considered writing. I too find that when I'm throwing down ideas (or groping for them) my sentences change tense in midstream. Don't correct or worry about grammar or anything like that while you're doing this. It will interrupt the sole purpose of the exercise, which is to capture your thought processes. I find that I peel off at tangents, leave a couple of lines, then continue with my main idea, or a new idea, or half-formed idea, or vain plea for an idea. I scribble odd thoughts in the margin, and so on. I might begin such a process by writing something like: "I haven't a thought in my head. Why not? Is it congenital stupidity or some awful mind-numbing drug added to my food by a sinister government agency?" and so on. Pursue this process and ideas will form.

Later I return and often throw out most of the ideas I thought were good at the time, while keeping others I previously thought were poor. I find that the process of writing helps ideas to flow, but I remain aware that a few jewels will be buried in an awful lot of dross. Often, there might be nothing of value at all. Harsh self-criticism as the resivion/evaluation stage is massively important.

Once I have culled the rubbish and saved one or a few ideas, I mull them over and kick them around before writing them up further. I find that one idea can inspire others. I've sometimes found that my best ideas (well, my least poor ones at least) we the result of kicking round an idea that arose from kicking round another idea that arose from kicking round the first idea.

I always keep a notebook. Ideas sometimes cross my mind when I'm sitting on a train, mulling over what I wrote the night before. It is dispiriting to return home and think, "now what was that idea I had?" only to find that it's vanished completely. The composer Carl Nielsen used to jot down ideas on his starched shirt cuff. Edward Elgar claimed that his 'Land of Hope and Glory' tune came to him while he was fly fishing in the River Wye. He immediately threw down his rod, pulled out his notebook, and jotted it down. He noted down another on the back of an Ordnance Survey map.

I hope this helps. You must try not to be disappointed because you write for a while and nothing overwhelmingly original finds its way onto paper. Write what comes into your mind. Reread later (preferably some days later) and try to develop the best of what you have jotted down. You might have to cross an awful lot of desert in te process, but you'll find an oasis in the end.

When I'm not quick enough to write down my ideas it feels like a fish has just slipped off the hook. But I figure I might catch him next time. My father told me that there were a lot of fish in the sea, but I think he was talking about something else. My grandfather also told me that there were a lot of fish in the sea, and I think he really meant it literally. For me, starting a journal entry is usually a fishing expedition. So I found your story interesting -- Elgar went fishing and bagged a tune!

Doug

I love this line, "I haven't a thought in my head. Why not? Is it congenital stupidity or some awful mind-numbing drug added to my food by a sinister government agency?"

I've been sitting here with pen in hand wondering why my page is still as white as the snow that fell last night. It must be the FOOD!!!!!!

Mike

You know, I've never considered giving up grammar to extent of letting sentence structure go. But when I think about it the thoughts in my head are less than grammatical and they change easily, so it makes a lot of sense. Thanks.



That's kind of an awesome idea, because I love my iPod. It finally gets to participate in writing.



Thanks! I liked the second article especially. Writing from the POV of a different person sounds like a great exercise for writing.



I am starting to get the idea of free writing, I never fully comprehended the true meaning of it. I haven't trained myself to really spot the ideas that pass through my head through out the day, but I'm now starting to "get" it.

I think the digging through the old part of the process will be an interesting experience. I don't have enough old journal to look through yet as I just started, but I still look forward to it.


Thanks a LOT everyone!

Your fishing story reminded me of our family vacations when I was a child. My father got two weeks of vacation every year. We spent those two weeks in a fishing camp in Canada. I remember being out in a boat with my father and being very discouraged, not having a bite for hours (I am still the world's worst fisherman). I was sitting there in a funk, with my lure in the bottom of the boat. My father said, "You will never catch a fish if you don't keep your worm in the water." That statement applies to nearly any endeavor you can start.

Paddler

Every now and then I write a page or so with my non-dominant hand. I usually have to use a ballpoint (gasp) for this, but the results usually reveal issues or ideas that I'm not ready to "own" yet. It's like shining a flashlight into a dark corner.

Also, one of my new year's resolutions is to write every day in 2008. Even if I don't feel like it.

That's a neat exercise!

That's a great resolution, I could never stick to it though, lol.

Wow! Do you really get different ideas when writing the off-hand? What an unusual idea! This, I gotta try.

Paddler

I wouldn't say that I get "ideas" so much as a glimpse into what's going on for me. A lot of times when I sit down to write I am so wound up from my workday that I have a hard time settling down.

A friend of mine has a phrase "H.A.L.T. and write," which means sit down and write whenever you're feeling hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. It's a great way to make sure I am taking care of myself.

- Yumbo

Wow, that's a really good mnemonic, I"m going to remember that one.

So how is the journal writing going?

Pretty good, it's really helping me learn to think, I don't know how to describe it, "looser." I have a bad habit of tossing out an idea without even thinking about it if it's silly or absurd at all, but I'm seeing that they can actually go somewhere.

And my handwriting has, like, quadrupled in legibility and prettiness.

But... you'd starve to death! You'd sit down to write because you're feeling hungry, and when you stood up again you'd still be hungry, so you'd have to sit down and write some more, and when you finished that time you'd be even hungrier, so....

H.A.L.T and Write and (maybe) have some nice chicken soup.

I dug out my copy of Natalie Goldberg's Writing Down the Bones. Highly recommended if you haven't read it yet. It's a classic and probably at your library, too.

Your original question reminded me of this quote from her first chapter - "Beginner's mind" ... "Consider the pen you write with. It should be a fast-writing pen because your thoughts are always much faster than your hand. You don't want to slow up your hand even more with a slow pen. A ballpoint, an pencil, a felt tip, for sure, are slow ... I mostsly use a cheap Sheaffer fountain pen ... the new roller pens are fast too, but there's a slight loss of control. You want to be able to feel the connection and texture of the pen on paper."

She goes on to describe timed writing sessions, her basic building block of writing exercises ... get a kitchen timer and go for 10 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever. To quote her rules:

1. Keep your hand moving. (Don't pause to reread the line you have just written. That's stalling and trying to get control of what you're saying.)
2. Dont cross out. (That is editing as you write. Even if you write something you didn't mean to write, leave it.)
3. Don't worry about spelling, punctuation, grammar (Don't even care about staying within the margins and lines on the page.)
4. Lose control.
5. Don't think. Don't get logical.
6. Go for the jugular. (If something comes up in your writing that is scary, dive right into it. It probably has a lot of energy.)

Sorry if this is too much information. This past holiday season was stressful for my family, and journal writing helped me survive. I'm a big believer.

Sincerely,

Yumbo

No, no, the more information the merrier! I've been stressed lately too, and I find the little journaling that I do do has made feel a little bit better. So I hope to improve.

Thanks for the steps, I"ll look up the book too. I think the main parts I need to practice are steps 4 and 5. My mathmatical/practical mind takes issue with them, but I'll try to lose it, hehe. I'll have to try the timed part to see if maybe I tried for short focused writing blocks, I can work up to longer periods of journaling "without control."

This is great stuff... I skip the timer, and I write in my local cafe, usually after work before I go home. Sometimes I only get a page or two, others I write 6-7 even 10 pages. I just write the thoughts that come into my head, the things that are rattling around int here for me. Its not that hard to do as long as you are willing to commit whats in your mind to a medium where others may see it.

That's usually where the real issue lies. Exposing the inner voice to the rest of the world. OR trying to force something like insist that you are going to write about something specific or create a "good" idea or a "good" story or whatever instead of just letting it flow. Be in the present and don't worry about the past or the future.

The real irony is I rarely ever go back and read the things I've written.

True, true. I'm a rather private person, so I have trouble writing down some of my more "private" thoughts, but I try to convince myself that by the time anyone else is reading this I will be long dead, haha.


I know! I haven't done that yet.

When you say writing down ideas, are you meaning ideas for things to write about, ideas for things to do or create, all of the above, none of the above.... ?

For me, ideas relate to things I want to do, redo or create. I refer to them as inspiration and do not try to force it with any method in particular. I used to have a pad I wrote and sketched all of my ideas. In the same pad I put my lists of things I needed to do and stuff like that. It got all mixed up and I did not like that. So I made a tri fold cover with an A5 pad on the left and right sides and pockets in the center for 3X5 cards. In the pad on the left I write and sketch all of my ideas whenever they come to mind. On the right are the daily things I need to do and in the center I can put 8 - 3X5 cards of specific things I need to get done. When ideas and inspiration gets distracted by something I just remembered I needed to do, I just note it on the right side pad and then continue with writing and sketching ideas.

I take it with me everywhere, even to bed because I never know when ideas and inspiration will strike.

What I meant was basically any "thought." Probably for me I tend to focus on ideas for art and writing because that's what I like to do, but I meant generally anything. I am starting to get the hang of letting thoughts flow straight from the brain to the paper, though.

I really like that set-up you have there. Very effective for those of us who can get sidetracked easily with so-called "important things."

Some great posts here! I would like to say I have trouble also with thinking while I hand-write. I leave out explanations and descriptions and whatever else was going on at the time. So when I read it back it makes only vague sense and I seem to have missed the point of writing in the first place, that there was something on my mind impelling me to write. Lately I have been so disappointed with reading half-baked ideas that I have started using the computer word-processor to type out lists as a brainstorm session and then developing the ideas, adding more description and matters of note, as I am a touch-typer and my fingers find the letters on the keyboard themselves. At this point I can then take the printout and sit down with my pen and reflect more when I'm writing by hand. I guess this sounds daft (odd).

I was interested about the piece of advice to use a fast pen because this might be the key to my writing by hand. The FPs I have are all cheap and kind of scratchy so I've been looking on the web for information about the Sailor Professional Gear. From what I understand I should be looking for a "wet writer" and have been wondering if the Sailor nibs are especially fast.

Typing vs handwriting - I seem to have the opposite capabilities to most people here in that I find it easier and faster to type and produce more material with a keyboard; rather than be more comfortable with an FP in hand to get my ideas down as fast as possible. The problem is in my head I think that I'm better off typing whatever I can whereas in my heart I would prefer to use FP and paper.

Any thoughts on this?

Scratchy, I know exactly what you're talking about and I'm the same way! I'm a keyboardist by nature, and when I started writing by hand a couple of years ago (as an excuse to use a fountain pen) I found it almost impossible to be coherent. Too slow! I'd abandon ideas in mid-sentence because my brain was already a couple of paragraphs ahead. As a consequence, nothing I wrote by hand made any sense. I'd scratch out a lot of text -- no cut and paste! And nothing was spelled correctly -- no auto-spellcheck.

I asked myself if writing with quill and pen were so much slower, why was the writing from the era of quill and fountain pen not more clipped? You'd think if you used a slow device like a pen that you had to dip from time to time, the resulting writing would use short sentences and a quick succession of ideas. Kind of IM style. But of course, the opposite is true. The writing from the pen era often features long sentences expressing elaborate chains of meaning. When writers started drafting at keyboards that allow for quicker writing, writing that could more easily keep pace with the brain, sentences often became shorter. Just a generalization -- thinking of Hemingway standing at his typewriter.

My current theory is that the slowness of the pen required writers to think before writing. They had to "buffer" their words and ideas, and that skill fostered the mental environment for the creation of elaborate, well crafted, and beautiful writing.

I'm currently experimenting with my own brain by trying to buffer my ideas and words in my mind before setting pen to paper. I also have a mental "remember this" list. I get "bright ideas" sometimes where there is no pen or paper (or digital recorder or computer etc.) I put that idea in my Remember This list and see if I can write the idea down later on. Same with interesting phrases or sentences etc.

So far so good. But I'm drafting this response on keyboard so excuse its undeveloped ideas. I notice my spellchecker has spellchecked the word spellcheck, but ...

Doug
\

That's well nifty being able to concentrate like that. I stopped remembering details some years ago! However I do believe it might be possible if I try really really hard my brain might be able to recall stuff too, if I do lots of practice. Glad to hear someone having a similar trouble.

Just occurred to me...I've read that your practice is what writers of dialogue are keenly tuned into, the exact turn of phrase and no pen and paper handy so they have to make mental notes.

This thread has been a revelation to me....I really didn't 'get' the idea of writing a journal at all.

I often kept a diary.....for the first part of the year .... but never really used it to do more than record what I'd done that day......apart from literally once or twice when I wrote down 'thoughts'.
I now see that a journal can be so much more....

20 or so years ago I got into using a Filofax, and I have recently revived mine..... it could, IMO, be a great aid to recording, filing and re-arranging ideas, thoughts, plans etc..... I used to say "If the Filofax knows, I don't have to remember it!"
Its loose-leaf layout and multitude of different page formats allows for lots of creativity.

My problem with writing v keyboard is that I so frequently change my mind about the best way to express a thought, after I have put it down.....witha kbd, editing is easy, and i just hate 'crossing-out'...it looks so messy.

However, many of the ideas expressed above have helped a lot and I am formulating ways of using pen & paper which I would be able and comfortable to use....thanks.

One big advantage of the electonic media, however, is 'back-up'....... I know that sinking feeling which accompanies the realisation that you left your notes, appointments, addresses, and personal thoughts in a hotel room somewhere.....
And,having just handwritten two letters, I cannot really recall what I have told to whom...... with email, I'd have a copy in the 'sent' folder!!

In the old days, rich guys would just have a copy of the letter written out for the files. I think they may not have had to write the original with own hands either.

I usually scan letters before I send them...

Doug

I loved The Artist's Way. I used it many years ago when times got tough, and I needed a creative outlet. I used to call it the Eleven Step Program for Recovering Creatives. I no longer do the journaling exercise, but the book itself led to a much enriched life.

I'm sure I have a copy hidden in a cupboard - must find it and actually read it this time! While I think about it though, I recently got another book called "Reflective Journaling" - must have a look at it as well.
Do you see my problem - in action - here? I buy books and then forget I have them, my memory is that good!
Is there any hope for my scatterbrain mind?

A book I've found very useful for improving my journaling (as well as my fiction): Deena Metzger's Writing For Your Life

Thanks Dierdre, I've had a look at this book on Amazon and it looks interesting

I don't think you can go wrong with any pen made by Sailor, Namiki/Pilot, or Platinum. Japanese pens have fantastic nibs, so you almost never end up with a lemon. They don't have the WOW factor of their European counterparts, but the things are designed as writing instruments, and so they provide the WOW in an understated Japanese way. I'm saving for a Namiki/Pilot Custom 823. They're not available here in the States, so I'll have to get mine on eBay.

But you don't have to spend a lot of money to get a wet writer. My Waterman Phileas cost US$38 and it lays down a smooooth wet line and I use it everyday.

- Yumbo

This may belong on a completely different thread, but here goes ...

When I find the perfect combination of ink, pen and paper - the colors, textures, sounds, and "hand-feel" enliven my writing experience and put me in a heightened mental state where time disappears and it's just me and a blank page.

Does this happen to anyone else?

- Yumbo

Yup. This is one of those things that is very difficult to describe to some.

Doug

Thanks for your advice yumbo!

About the mental state, it sounds wonderful! In fact this is probably why I want a Sailor pen, to be able to write my journal without skipping a beat, because the inkflow has dried up in the FP. I seem to find that different pens behave better on different days. I shall look for Waterman pens as alternative to Sailor before I buy.

I found this problem with idea development and cut and paste initially as well. The solution for me was to decide to follow each idea to its end as a block of text (several paragraphs) and then mark them for moving or as potential digressions/sidebars. Much as used in magazine articles. Then if I want I can rewrite the material in a more orderly and coherent fashion. At least its all there for later should I so choose.

Just last night I woke up with a couple really good related ideas so I got up and wrote them down as best I could. (about 1:30 AM). After about an hour I was done with the basics enough to feel I could leave it alone and go back to bed.

I find this works for me.

Also saving for a Pilot Custom 823 in brown...

Excellent helpful advice - it made me feel better, "I'm not alone"


I'm hoping this will be the case when I actually get the Sailor PG I ordered...it's been delayed..


I have been trying this as well, mainly writing letters to old friends -bet they don't know what's hit them!

I have realised tonight that I'm still missing out information and steps in my chain of thought. Some leaps to apparently unrelated topics, very illogical. But I shall keep going as advised above, thanks guys
scratchy

Scratchy -

Let us know how you like your Sailor Pro Gear pen! I'm torn between it and a Pilot Custom 823. In about 3 months I'll have enough pennies saved to make the purchase, but then I will have a difficult decision to make.

- Yumbo

This has been a really inspiring thread so far. Thanks to all!!

I am interested in the Artist's way, but I am not sure how to convince the dog to wait while I do 3 pages of automatic writing each morning. I am correct that it is suppose to be done first thing, right? I don't mind caring for my dog, it is a small price to pay for what she gives in return.

Maybe this just isn't the right time for me to start the program. I think I will continue to be proud that I have finally been able to continue a journal longer than 2 days. It was my new year's resolution this year!

Hi Yumbo I'm still waiting for it but I shall let you know what it's like when it arrives!


Hi kaseygirl, you can get around concern about continuing a journal longer than two days by deciding from the outset that you will write in it when and where you like, and to feel free about sticking other notes in it (as an unplanned scrapbook) - if you use spray adhesive they will lie flat. Of course whatever you yourself decide will be best for you (I worked my own system out over time rather than being told how to do it) Back in 2004 sometimes I only wrote in mine once a month! I had to get over my worries about making it "look good". Although I'm not implying you have the same concerns as me.
I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on this
scratchy

I'm expecting the Sailor Prof Gear in the post tomorrow!! -excited!! (getting a B nib, hope it's okay)

Another book of interest to some regarding journal writing: "Big Mind, Big Heart: Finding Your Way" by Dennis Genpo Merzel 2007. It provides a different dimension to thinking and writing in the third person about aspects of yourself. I can give more info if anyone is interested. It is in a Q&A format.

scratchy

I'd like to learn more details about the book, Scratchy. Its Amazon description still leaves me a little unclear on the specifics. That's great news about your Sailor coming tomorrow! I love my 1911M and am trying to resist the urge to buy that pale blue Sapporo.

Looks like an interesting book. May have to check it out.

Oooh. Aaaah. What kind of ink are you going to put in it? Decisions, decisions!

And if you don't like the B nib, you can always have it ground into something finer, right?

- Yumbo

Yes I'm looking forward to seeing the postman tomorrow! I did think about getting the Sapporo but then I thought I would want the Prof Gear once I got it (so I've really saved myself from buying 2 pens?!)
The book, it's written by a zen master and is about finding a range of "voices" that each of us has, so he says. For example there are the voices of "Fear" and "Anger". The voice of Fear would say, "It's my job to be afraid, and there's a lot to be afraid of...". The voice of Anger might say, "What do you want?! Why do you want to speak to me?!". I suppose this amounts to having a conversation with yourself on many different levels, but if you use it for journal writing it can open up new ways to explore your character or current situations. I tried out "speaking" with "The Protector" i.e. writing quickly without self-editing what The Protector is saying, and got "I want to keep her at home where it's safe. It's too risky going out to meet new people. She might get upset if it goes wrong". I have to say, it is very direct and the things the different voices can say can be revealing and uncomfortable. But I think this makes a great tool for exploring one's identity etc.

Hi Rapt, please see as above.

Hi yumbo, I thought I would use the Sailor blue-black cartridges to start off with, but I have a number of Herbin colours to experiment with including L'Orange Indien and Cacao Du Bresil. I'm going through a blue-black phase and I've mainly been using Noodlers Midnight Blue - yeh choices choices!
About getting the nib ground finer, I'm not sure who does this in the UK so fingers crossed I won't need to...
scratchy