I got a small clairefontaine notebook to use as a journal because I kept hearing about the paper and did end up using it all the way through but it was really not for me.

First, the cover/aesthetics: I haven't done a whole lot of research into clairefontaine products but all the books at my local store had rather feminine or "stylish" patterns. I would've been happy with boring black never mind a cool picture. Oh well, I can get over this.

The paper: First the good. The paper did not bleed through, AT ALL. It was also quite smooth, bright and consistent. The bad, which is what killed it for me, is that the paper is soooo dense that many inks did not absorb very well at all. I tried a whole slew of noodler's (the only brand i really use) with varying success but even the truly well behaved inks such as fox red did not absorb fast enough. Noodler's red/black is truly terrible on the paper and some ink seems to sit on the surface indefinitely. This inevitably leads to smudges or tracking the ink around the paper generally decimating the neatness that i work feebly to achieve. oh, and it breaks my rhythm to have to sponge off mounds of ink before i turn the page for fear of making everything illegible.

I know that clairefontaine fans are probably glaring at their monitors when they read that bit about it not working with my specific inks. But please don't hate me, I just had a bad experience with the notebook overall starting with the flowery pattern on the cover and killed by the ink repelling paper. I realize that noodler's is super saturated and besides he color selection I stick with their inks for the permanency and have had great results on cheaper paper which can take the ink more readily from my broad nib.

I think i've lost my point here, I got so absorbed in the last sentence. This post was not intended to be this long, whoops.

I think the Noodlers (or any saturated inks) would be problematic and prone to smearing. The particulate/pigment in them does not absorb into the paper, it just sits on top. Thinner inks, Skrip, Quink, Waterman, Herbin... will give better results. My French friends who use fountain pens use Herbin inks and Clairfontaine as a regular thing (after all, they are French made). I like the Clairefontaine paper, but I also like thinner inks. I believe part of Nathan's marketing was that Noodlers was designed to work on cheap papers and give good results.

I don't like this paper either.
It is smooth but featureless and as stated poorly absorbent.
Much prefer Ampad for jots.

I love the way pens write much finer on Clairefontaine, and because I'm using XF nibs to begin with, the drying time never bothers me. Lots of people don't like Clairefontaine though - different strokes for different folks.

Hopefully, your next experience will be more successful.

ya know, i almost expected to get flamed. I forgot this is a fountain pen forum and people here dont' follow the normal internet rules of engagement and jump me immediately.

have i mentioned i like you guys?

You just don't know how to start a proper FPN flame war, I think...

WHICH UNDER $1 BIC SHOULD I USE ON MY CLAIRFONTAINE NOTEBOOK?

You gotta know your audience.

I like Clairefontaine for its brightness and smoothness, and I like using it with medium nibbed pens and fast ink, but really dislike it with fine pens. Actually, if I was going to complain about Clairfontaine I'd be more likely to complain about the binding - it never lies as nicely for me as Moleskine, and since they don't stay closed they're more likely to get wrecked in my bag. But the feature you don't like - the way the ink lies on top of the paper - is something I actually kind of enjoy, with certain inks. It seems to give the ink more interesting shading, and a little more intensity. But I agree - you have to account for the longer dry time.

About half my journals are moleskine and the other clairefontaine - I could praise and quibble about either, but with enough pens and ink, finding a good match makes each of them perfect for one purpose or another

eta: I have a few Clairefontaines with a plain brown cover. I think they come in black too. So it is possible to avoid the fashion-y look, if you decide to try again.

You might try a Rhodia pad next, actually, I've come to prefer the paper to Clairefontaine. They're made by the same company, but the paper is a bit lighter, and a little less glossy.

I like Clairefontaine for its smoothness, which also allows me to produce very crisp writing. The fact that certain inks (such as Aurora) dry slowly on this paper is a drawback, but this doesn't bother me because there are plenty of other inks that dry acceptably fast on this paper. It also helps that I prefer to write with fine and extra-fine nibs.

No glaring or flaming here, either. I like CF paper for certain pen & ink combos. For others it's too smooth. A buttery nib with a highly saturated ink can skate across the page and feel out of control.

It's still top of the list for me but there are other papers out there that are better behaved with the saturated inks.

I agree the covers available are over the top.

oooh! I've felt that too. It's like the pen skids out on the corners!

I'm using Clairefontaine because it's the lesser of all evils when using fountain pens. Point me in another direction and I'll follow. Two things I hate, feathering and bleed thru. I don't get it with Clairefontaine.

I use Clairefontaine almost exclusivelt. I have found that some Noodlers will work wonderfully. The two I can think of at the moment that had no problems are Lexington Grey and Fox Red. The brightness and the crispness of the writing make the dificulties of finding ink worthwhile to me, plus the wonderful shading. I'm an over-handed left-hander too, so smeary ink definitely does not work for me!

It is a bit frustrating to know that just about any ink I try has maybe a forty percent chance of working out, but I just love the paper so much.

I like my Clairefontaine journals! I know most are colorful but I have the plain Black one. It is 60 sheets black cover small size 6"x8" with 4 sections separated by pocket dividers. The paper is wonderful to write on and is perforated for ease of jerking out a page if you decide to trash a page. Pendemonium has them.

C785661
(C78566)Notebook, black cover, wirebound, perforated sheets with 3 grey pocket dividers to tuck away loose notes. 6x8.25, 60 sheets, ruled. $10.50

My very first experience with Clairefontaine was initially not a good one. I'd picked up one of the cloth bound A4 notebooks and even my best behaved pens would skip. The pages weren't just smooth, they actually had a sheen. It was worst towards the front of the book. By the time I got to the back the paper was well behaved. That notebook was also the only Clairfontaine I've used yet where the front side of the paper was tangibly smoother than the back.

After that first bad experience I was going to "drop down" a level and try Rhodia but Rhodia isn't generally available in Canada. I risked Clairefontaine again, picking up a stapled A4 pad and have never looked back. There was none of the sheen present in the cloth bound notebook. Those pads are now my "standard". Nothing else gives such crisp lines. The vaunted HP #32 paper is like Mead in comparison. I use Private Reserve ink by-the-way. Yes, I agree the ink takes a while to dry but I can't say I have any smudging problems.

As for colours and patterns - I think I saw a flowery spirograph type pattern on a notebook that made me wince. My solution was to not buy it My current pad has a black and charcoal irregular tiled pattern.

So if the ink lays on the paper a bit long, I would assume that Clairfontaine may not be a good notebook for lefties. Any left handers have good luck with Clairfontaine?

I also had issues with the binding but figured that it was my fault for getting the smaaaalll stapled journal. I had to really crank the pages backwards to get them to stop fighting my hands when i would write. Of course I did choose the one with no "real" binding so I'm not going to really fault them for that.

It's reassuring to know they do make some boring covers which sounds weird to say.

There are definitely plain black and neutral-colored Clairefontain notebooks, as well as notepads & writing tablets with a plain white cover. Check out their "Basics" line, which comes in hardbound and clothbound, black and tan colors only. Also, the "Classics" line, has one pattern choice that is available in black, and looks rather masculine.

This website has pictures and catalogue numbers, as well as where to buy
http://www.exaclair.com/brands_clairefontaine.shtml

I just got back from Europe, and in stationery shops there I saw several other types of plain black Clairefontaines that I have not seen either in American shops or online. Alas, I have no idea where to get them here.

As for writing quality, my favourites on Clairefotaie are Noodler's Legal Lapis, Noodler's Tahitian Pearl, Montblanc Racing Green, and Herbin Poussiere de Lune. I use modern pens with Xf-F nibs.

oh, yours was stapled... I'm sorry to report that I've had issues with the larger (6 x 8) sewn clothbound. This hasn't always been so - I've had a few older ones with no problems at all, but the ones I'm using now, both the 6 x 8 and 4 x 6 are making me crazy for their refusal to open properly and lie flat; it's as if the signatures refuse to roll over one another and kind of stick and grab. I'm also a little discontent at the rapid wear on the journal covers when I've tried to carry them around with me.

(As a side note - this is one of the reasons it puzzles me when people moan and moan about moleskine notebooks "Clairefontaine paper is so much better". I won't dispute that - but the functionality of a journal often has a lot to do with more than paper. On the other hand, it is a good excuse to have lots of different makes of journals to experiment with, since they all have their place.)

I have the pad that's on page 3, with number C6155. In black, I think it looks kinda cool. I also like the scoring in the cover. The perforation is also one of the very few that actually works as advertised (e.g. The sheet can be removed from the pad, with a nice clean edge at the top). I wish this was available without the holes and the margin at the edge of the paper. That would be the the notebook for me.

I notice too that the ink dries slower than on other paper, but it hasn't posed a problem for me yet

Yeah, but don't you love that out-of-control feeling.....

Here is what I found out about Clairefontaine in about two years' worth of playing with inks:

Clairefontaine works well with inks by: Diamine, Pelikan, Waterman, Omas, Sailor, Dupont, Herbin, Tibaldi etc... (fill in more inks here)

Clairefontaine does NOT work well with: Noodler's, Private Reserve

I'd say that the overwhelming majority of inks will work just great with this paper!

I think I might have said this elsewhere (sorry!) but I recently recognised the notebooks I've been using for meetings this past couple of years were Clairefontaine 50 sheets of 90g/m2 A4. They have been super and I'm (a) left-handed and ( using a Cross Century Classic broad with Penman Sapphire.

Margin notes and aides memoire added with a Sheaffer snorkel medium and Diamine Imperial Purple or MB 145 medium and Visconti blue.

No feathering, smearing or non-drying issues at all.

I'm only sorry I didn't buy more at the time - they were £1.99 each and "buy one get one free"! I should have cleared out the shop!! I only have one left for 2008

Chris

I would somewhat agree for Private Researve, but I write almost exclusively with Noodler's Swishmix, and about 50% of the time on Clairefontaine paper, and have had no issues.

I guess sweeping statements are hard to sustain, especially with the broad variety of Noodler's inks.

I agree.

It all depends on the individual - the size of their writing, their style, the nib, the speed at which they write... there are no absolutes. As always, it's a case of different strokes for different folks.

I personally love Noodler's and PR on my Clairefontaine paper.

Basically, there are 2 things which will influence a papers ability to absorb or repel a liquid.

The first is sizing. Gelatin is typically mixed in with the pulp and absorbed into the paper fibers to help control things like feathering and bleed through. An example of unsized paper would be a paper towel. An example of a heavily sized paper would be watercolor paper, some of which is both internally sized (described above) and externally sized which means after the sheet is pressed out of the mould it is given a bath in a sizing solution to coat the outside of the paper.

The second thing is called Calendaring. This is a process that gives paper a smooth and hard surface. It is typical of many commercial printing papers.

I have never looking into the production technique of the Clairefontaine papers but just judging by how they look an feel they seem to have a fairly calendared surface.

I've had no issues with Private Reserve on Clairefontaine.

Interesting discussion. After reviewing it, one issue seems to be one of expectations. I have recently gotten into an analysis on paper because I have used Levenger and Franklin stuff for home and work respectively. I realized Levenger was not good, but I was reluctant to switch paper because I was unwilling to switch notebooks. But I finally reached the end of my rope and opened up the door for change. Now I realize why I hated the Levenger paper, it is truely terrible. It is like blotter paper. the problem is it absorbs ink like a sponge, in the process produces a line two or three times the width of the pen. Now that I have side by side examples, I realize how bad it really is. I like high end stuff, and tend that direction, but got some HP 32lbs laser that is so popular with the forum. That immediately showed the difference. But compared to my standard, Strathmore Writing Laid, even it seems to enlarge the width of the line.

Anyway, from my experience, absorbancy is a bad thing, it creates feathering and bloated lines. I suspect depending on the paper, it can differentially enlarge the line (feather) or consistently enlarge the line. I found the only reason I put up with the Levenger paper is that it had homogenous permiability so it bloates the lines equally and consistently, making a medium point write like a broad. Anyway, increased drying time as a trade off for crisp, appropriate width lines. If you are writing in a journal you can always carry a piece of blotter paper as a bookmark, that way when you close it, it self blots. Anyway, it seems the responses in this chain are centered around differences in tolerances on time to dry, desire for absorbancy and appropriate line width.

Personally, I am on a quest to see if I can best Strathmore Writing Soft Gray Laid paper for my standard paper. I now cut and punch for my Levenger notebooks and will probably cut and print for my Franklin. I have also tried some Neenah Laid and a few others. I have a ream of Strathmore Writing 100 % Cotton on the way. But since it only comes in white, not sure it is going to best my current standard. JD

Here I agree. I've tried a little Clairefontaine notebook once and I've never bought it again. Mostly, I use Private Reserve inks and they just don't work with Clairefontaine papers. The ink just would never like to dry and is prone to smearing extensively. I don't care too much about the drying time, but it's inacceptable that the ink has still not dried when I've written a full page. So I came back to my cheap paper stuff after a while ... the paper there is prone to feathering, but I prefer this feathering rather than smearing ... and my handwriting looks much more pleasant when I use papers where the ink rather soaks into the fibres. But besides all this. Clairefontaine notebooks price nice paper - very bright and, in my eyes, reasonably priced (although it's not a bargain though).

I can relate to most of the posts in this thread. I have found that my pens tend to like certain inks and they perform best on certain paper. This adds to the fun of using them but also adds a level of frustration at times. What I find really weird is that most all of my pens and inks work just fine on inexpensive Quill and Ampad lined pads. Go figure. /Craig

With paper, it seems like absorbancy and smoothness are competing factors, so you have to pick the right balance for your taste. But Noodler's inks, sometimes the dye content is so high that it will smudge on almost any paper well after drying completely. I guess the excess dye just "flakes off" the paper and smudges when you run your hand over it.

[edited for clarity]

I stick to the thinner inks, but i like wet writers, so i also have drying time issues with Clairfontaine paper. Too much facing.
On the other hand, i don't mind the covers.

I often see students in Montreal using them, generally with pencils. They might be nice with pencils.

I like the covers. Colors! Pretty!

I haven't used mine in a while---but I don't remember any ink problems. I should probably drag one out again and play with it.

Er, "particulate", "pigment"? I thought FP ink was a dye in solution.

+1
Also, they do offer notebooks with plain black or brown covers.

Okay, stupid question of the day.. I looked through that catalog and I could see any standard 8.5 X 11 standard sheets of normal blank or lined writing paper (not in a notebook/tablet, not card stock, and not in a set with envelopes).

I prefer just blank sheets to punch and use in a circa notebook. So, are standard packs of loose leaf white paper available? and where to find?? Normally I just use good quality inkjet paper, but I'd like to try clairefontaine if I can find what I want.

Thanks

You can buy reams of plain CF A4 (*NOT* US letter size, how uncivilised!), but I've only ever seen them in France. So sad, really...

Great - they make it in the world standard size - 'bout time the US caught up!

What? There a people and places outside the US? since WHEN??? I think that's a hoax..

Well darn... I do have an A4 size notebook here but I don't really want to travel to France this year to make a purchase. I might just pick up one of those tablets and have the office shop shave the top off. That'll probably work okay to at least test the paper well with different inks.

Thanks for the info

I have more news - the world is round!

On a serious note the fact that the US is such a huge market but doesn't embrace world standard paper sizes is an absolute pain in the bum. You have the best range of general stationery available, great online shopping, but "odd"sizes.

I'm happy with US paper sizes and want them to stay as they are. It's also interesting to sample other formats---just don't force us.

As if we could.

You will pry my format out of my cold dead fingers!

I've also noticed that Montblanc inks don't seem to work at all well on Clairefontaine paper. I mostly use Noodlers or Aurora, but I have a Montblanc that requires I use their cartridges (until I find a small enough converter) and note that the pen skips quite badly on Clairefontaine paper and only on Clairefontaine paper.

BTW - with the Aurora and Noodlers I find it helps to keep a sheet of plain old yellow lined paper as a blotter between the pages (I use an A4 notebook with a plain, black cover).

-john

I am a lefty, underwriter and use Clairefontaine with a fine-nib pen and Waterman (black ink). Works great.

PR Naples Blue, my slowest drying ink takes about 30 seconds to fully dry and not rub off the surface. I LOVE this and Rhodia, the super slick glide

We interrupt this thread to bring you something completely off topic...

Hey John, save those Mb cartridges and rinse them out, then fill them with your favorite inks using a syringe or eye dropper. Works great for my Boheme.. It loves Aurora black or blue and Manhattan black.. the int'l small squeeze converter should work just fine if you don't want to eye drop carts (but you will still have to eye drop the small converter if your pen is a Boheme retractable).. you can get these from Tryphon and other places... http://www.tryphon.it/catalogo.htm scroll down to the fifth item "Bantam" Ink Converter. That mught be what you're looking for...

We now return return you to the normal thread programming, already in progress...