I noticed this when I switched from Parker's Quink to Noodler's Bulletproof. When I wiped the nib with the paper towel more ink showed up in its place. I used a vinyl eraser I use for work and it wipped off the nib clean and no more nib creep. But if I were to use my finger or a towel again the ink would creep back.

Is it surface tension? What was different between the towel and the eraser? and why does it happen with some inks and not others?

I have noticed on my MB 146 if I use Noodler's Blue Black the ink will creep out of the slit and take over the nib like the black stuff on Spiderman 3 but if I use Waterman Blue Black it stays clean with no creep.

Also, if you go to the "Inky Thoughts" forum and do a search (FPN search, bottom of the window) for the term "nib creep" you'll find quite a lot of material!

Two things here. First, Noodler's inks have more surfactant in them than most others to keep the dye suspended and for flow control. If you have a nib prone to creep, Noodler's will be the worst by far.

Second, the real reason that the ink creeps out is that there isn't a sharp "edge" at the nib slit. If the slit is rougher than it should be, or the plating has gone bad, ink can wick out onto the surface of the nib. Once there, unless you wipe it off very cleanly (your vinyl eraser), it will follow the traces of dry in back out. Your finger isn't very smooth, so it leaves ink on the nib, and a paper towel or something else absorbant will also leave ink behind.

I'll remember that trick with the vinyl eraser.

Not all nibs creep, by the way. My Parker 21s that I've filled with Noodler's Luxury Blue, a creeping champion, turned blue in a matter of hours. My Waterman CF with a medium nib shows no signs of creep after weeks. Starts when it touches the paper, so it's not dry. Absolutely clean.

Peter

I've noticed that Noodlers seems to be associated with nib creep. I have some Sheaffers, an Aurora Talentum, and some vintage British flex nibs. Most of these pens have 14ct gold nibs. I use Diamine ink almost exclusively, and I can honestly say that I have not experienced this problem. I occasionally find a very small amount of ink on either side of the slit on my Sheaffer Legacy Heritage (18ct), but it is very slight, nothing on the upper nib at all. And really, nothing at all on the other nibs.

That seems to make sense, I had to wiki the term. After reading some other descriptions from the previous nib creep topics, it must have a lower surface tension than water and other brands of ink. High surface tension and "globes" of ink would form on the sides of a converter, lower tension and it will just run along the sides.

Noodler's inks are interesting fluids. Low surface tension and high adhesion.

It was discussed in this thread HERE

That had some interesting things in it. Though I wonder about paper quality. This polar black ink I am using responds differently just to the type of paper I use. I have cheap notebook filler paper and the ink just flows off the nib, but with a different grade of paper it feels like the ink is really stubborn.

I don't see a need to adjust ink flow because I don't think it would help, when I was using the Parker Quink it flowed no matter which type paper I used, but the color of the ink changed. If I didn't use my pen for a few minutes the first few lines of text written would be a solid black, but after awhile even though the ink flow was consistent the black turned to a murky charcoal color. The Polar Black ink I use even though does not write consistently on all types of paper, but it has been consistently black for as long as I write the pen with it.

Hmm, your description is a bit puzzling but it sounds to me like you have a flow problem, even though you don't think you do.

I think the Polar inks are just a different animal. I don't have Polar black, but I do have Polar blue and as you said, in some pens/papers it gushes like a firehose, and on others, it's stingy and dries on the nib in about 2 seconds. And the creep is unbelievable. I have a few other Noodler inks to compare it to, and by far it is the creepiest and most idiosyncratic.

That said - I quite like the colour and of course, the water resistance. My solution thus far is to use it as a mixing ink - added to Lamy turquoise, you get the saturation and water resistance of PB and a moderated flow - slower in the gushy pens, faster in the sticky ones. Don't ask me why this works - and it only works on the above mixture, so YMMV I am sure.

That's true, the nib on my Waterman Phileas has never exhibited even the tiniest trace of creep when loaded with Noodler's bulletproof/waterproof/eternal inks. However, I've seen other pens of the same model creep very heavily with these inks (fully coated nibs), so it seems to depend on the individual nib. I also have a pen that creeps a little when loaded with Skrip, and I imagine that this would be significantly worse with Noodler's, although I haven't experimented with this combination yet.

A thing to remember is that Polar Black is designed to work when it's cold. I've seen some things written about the polar ink (on Pendemonium, for example) that mention that the Polar black is better behaved when used in the conditions it was designed for -- namely in the cold. Nathan then reformulated the polar ink so that it would behave better at room temperature.

Most things (ink included) dry more slowly in the cold. Most things are also more viscous when cold.

So you've got to expect that an ink Nathan Tardiff claims is designed for polar researchers is going to behave differently when writing outside at a research station in Antarctica than it will in your comfortable home or office.

I don't have access to a walk-in refrigerator, so I'm waiting for the mercury to fall before I pass any real judgement on the polar inks.

Interesting. I do live in Utah so right now the room temperature in the daytime without heating is about 72, it will soon drop to 68 if I set the heating on. I'll place my fountain pen in the freezer for a few minutes and I'll let you know what happens heh.

I did one time dip the whole nib in water to get rid of the nib creep. I think some of the water flowed into the pen and mixed with the ink. The ink flow was very fast and I was getting thick broad lines from what is a fine tipped pen(rotring core, so it should have been equivlent to writing with a 0.5mm pencil). After some writing I think the dilluted ink got used up and it went back to it's regular behavior.

Has anyone done any mixtures of water with polar black to know what an adequate amount could be or is this something I would have to find out on my own through trial and error?

One thing I have tried, is mixing Polar Black with Diamine Sepia. (I would try others, but haven't gotten around to it.) Although it says on that Pendemonium page that doing so will compromise the bullet-proof qualities of the Noodler's, I did some tests and it seems very much like the Noodler's component of the mixture retained at least its waterproof properties. This was only about 1 part in 30 of Noodler's in Diamine, but after soaking in soapy water for days, all markings were a clearly legible mid-grey. (Pure Diamine Sepia is pretty well completely effaced in a short time.)

Unfortunately the mixture appears to produce precipitates -- and I've been loading vintage pens with it. Live and learn.

Your idea of adding a small amount of water to use Polar Black at nonpolar temperatures is interesting. I don't think this would damage the bullet-proof qualities of the Noodler's. Can anyone comment on the robustness of the Noodler's when mixing with water or other inks?

I suppose this is more of an Inky Thoughts topic. Hope the mods don't mind.

Precipitates? Does this mean that mixing two inks will produce some kind of thick junk?

It might be risky for me to mix tap water with Noodler's then, if there are any substances dilluted into water it's possible that whatever binding agents used in the noodler ink could bind with the impurities.

I know it sounds quasi scientific, but try it by taking sugar water and mixing some salt into it. Through some chemistry, polar bonds between the water sugar and some of the water with salt are strong. This was something I did when I was in middle school because I thought sugar and salt could bond to form a crystal but it didn't happen at all, salt bonded with water, but not with the sugar like I thought could happen. It became saturated really quickly. The reason why sugar crystals and salt crystals can form is because the mixture saturates and without any water molecules to bind with, the salt/sugar will bind with other salt/suger.

Now for tap water, if there are impurities, either mixing noodler's will break the bonds between the molecules and reform into something different(which is bad), or bonds are strong and so any water molecules not binded to an impurity will bind with the ink molecules.

I wonder if anyone has done a side by side test with tap and distilled water to see if their is a difference. I think a set up for such an experiment is having two jars(they have to be fully cleaned before the start of the experiment). One filled with tap water, the other with distilled, they should be of same amounts. Then mix in the same amount of ink in each one. Stir it rapidly so that its well mixed and then let it set for a few minutes, hours, or a day. Shine a bright light along the side of each jar and look at how the beam is broken.

I think that a beam that is solid throughout shows a well mixed solution, and a broken beam does not. The broken beam could mean the solution might not be safe to use in the fountain pens because there are large clumps visible.