Believe it or not, I'm still experimenting with writing position. I'm a rightie. Last night I rotated my sheet a bit counterclockwise, and it was much easier to right that way. I'm sure i've tried this before, but i thought i wouldn't be able to write a straight sentence. But I was able to keep my sentences in a straight line and perpendicular to the paper's sides.

Regards,
Jeen

Hi Jeen,

Many people do this, myself included. Unless I am trying to do calligraphy, but then I sit straight too, which I normally don´t when taking notes etc.

HTH, warm regards, Wim

Hi,

I will get you a newer picture. I just noticed that it is a bit distorted. My fingers are not like that anymore, they are a little slimmer.

Dillon

I'm right-handed, and I turn my paper 90 degrees to the left in front of me. It seems to make people think I'm a lefty, but it's the most comfortable position for me.

(My immediately older sister and my younger brother are both left-handed; I wonder if I picked up my writing style from them.)

Hi Dillon,
What's the pen you're using, Pel?
I couldn't tell for sure. Do you rotate the sheet?

Hi Velma,
I see your position in your avatar. Interesting.

Hi Wim,
It's good to know bright minds think alike.
I'm excited to be able to write for longer periods now.

Regards to all,
Jeen

Hi,

It is my M200.

Dillon

I have the exact position illustrated here. Pearlfox posted this link in this thread.

Writing with the paper straight in fornt of you is making things harder. Do you play the guitar ? The classic position is such that the fingers of your left hand are parallel to the fret in this middle of the board. Same thing apply to writing :

- Sit straight in front of your desk, paper in front of you (don't rotate yet...)
- take you pen, and hold it in the middle of the page, in your writing position.
- now rotate the paper so that the axis dividing the page vertically is in the alignement with the axis of your forearm. Voila !

Your fingers should not move much when you write. The movement comes from your arm and shoulder.

That's the basic position to start from in my opinion. Tweak to find your most comfortable spot.

Denis,

Thanks for precisely describing what I stumbled onto.
It's nice to have corroboration like this fellow fp users.

Cheers,
Jeen

You're not alone.

That's what I have read in a few calligraphy books. But have you ever really tried that? The fine motor control that you get from the muscles in your hands goes pretty much out the window when using the larger muscle groups in your lower and upper arm to move the pen. I guess over time retraining those muscles would work but every time that I have done that my writing style changes and not for the better


Kurt H

Hi Kurt,

When I write, my thumb and index have a slight back and forth "pulsation", and my wrist is virtually locked in alignment with my forearms. That the way I learned, so I never had to do it consciously. I can imagine how difficult it is to try to alter writing habits.

On the bright side, looking at my writing, I can assure you that it is not a guarantee of better handwriting I'm pretty sure though that it does make writing almost effortless compared to other positions/techniques, as the muscles in action are much stronger.

Denis.

Just to add to the confusion conjured up by Denis, I had a look at the way I write (and this is the way we were taught at primary school, starting with dip pens). I came to the following conclusions regarding movement of arm, wrist, hand and fingers.

1. Movement of the pen along a line is controlled by arm/shoulder movements.
2. Loops, flourishes, etc, as in the letter l, b (cursive), start of a signature, underlining, iIOW the larger loopy writings, are controlled mostly by a combination of wrist movement and hand tilting movements, aided a little by the arm.
3. Smaller characters, and/or parts of letters that don't require big sweeps, like a, e, the lower part of b, etc., are created by small movements of the hand mostly, aided a little by small wrist movements.
4. The fingers don't really contribute to the writing process, they just serve for holding the pen.
5. All of the above really work in conjunction. After all, in order to write the next character you have to move your pen along the line you are busy with.

I was actually really amazed to see that my fingers are really only used for holding the pen, not much else. Even the writing of the tiniest of characters is really accomplished by hand, wrist and arm movements. I even tried to write by moving the pen with my fingers, and although it is possible, it feels very cumbersome, and tiring. It just doesn't feel right.

IOW, the large movements are controlled by arm and shoulder, and the fine movements therein by hand and wrist.

HTH, warm regards, Wim

I just looked at my hand writing and 99.99897989% of it is done strictly with three fingers with the wrist being used only to move across the page.


Maybe we need to get a few quicktime movies of people writing to compare!


Kurt H

Hi Kurt, Wow, you did measure this accurately . Don't you find this very tiring? You don't move your arm at all?

Another question: how do you draw or sketch? The same way?
I guess we need Antonios and Corien to the rescue here...

Warm regards, Wim

I honestly can't remember how I was taught to write. All I do know is that my handwriting has changed unintentionally over the years.

For a long time now, my elbow rests on the table and my arm shifts this point horizontally as my hand moves along to write. Forming the actual letters themselves, for me, involve the fingers (mostly) and my wrist.

I will actually sit square on to the table, more or less and the writing page is aligned, along both axes with the table (i.e. I don't do the rotating of the paper that Denis does at the end of his positioning steps). From a bird's eye view: (1) my forearm will be at a 45 degree angle with the horizontal edge of the paper and (2) the pen is actually almost completely horizontal with this same edge (such that if I place the pen down while I write, it will be parallel with the sentences that I write).

No doubt, this probably explains the chicken scratch that I subsequently produce, but I think I'm too scared to see how much worse it will be (at least, in the interim) if I tried to adjust my writing style - better the devil you know, I guess.


raf.

I have always done it this way so I really don't feel tired. My arm moves to move my wrist & hand but not in the actual fine process.





If I am sketching out a canvas I usually use my entire arm for the first pass as I try to stand as far from the surface as possible, then a layer of detail is done similar to writing. When doing the painting it is the same way, holding onto the far end of the brush for the large spaces and then a smaller brush choking up on the grip for fine detail.



Kurt H

I would like to echo the request for the videos. Could be very useful.

Hi Kurt,
Are the fine movements made with hand and wrist or really with your fingers?
It sounds to me that it is mostly hand/wrist coordination for the finer movements. I may be mistaken of course, but I wouldn't think you move your thumb, index finger and middle finger in a contracting movement relative to your hand for painting, or for writing for that matter.
To me it seems that you have less control that way. Of course, I may be mistaken, just trying to figure out how you do write and paint.
I see writing as painting where all the different phases are combined into one, on a smaller scale, which is why I was asking this.

Warm regards, Wim

Looking at it all I guess that it is the entire hand making the motions.





I am curious as to why you think there is less fine control with the fingers being used as opposed to the arm and wrist. The fingers do not just 'constrict' but move from side to side as well in opposition sort of an isometric motion.

Kurt H

Hi Kurt,
Well, that's how I write, too. The picture gets more clear now, I think.
Well, because you use your fingers to grip the pen, it seems easier to me to control the pen with hand and wrist movements rather than with finger movements alone. The latter feel cramped to me. The main writing goes on with hand and wrist, the movement along the line of writing with the arm/shoulder. This seems to indicate that you write in the same way as I do, provided they move in conjunction in the same way, so, controlled by hand and wrist rather than individual finger muscles. Is this the way you write?

Warm regards, Wim