I see the mounds of information pinned in the repair forum regarding grinding nibs, smoothing, minor repairs, etc.

However, I see nothing in regards to creating flex nibs.

My assumption is that you simply thin the metal around the middle part of the nib.

Are there any articles or books that could explain the process better?

Thanks.

bg

Gee, I'm interested in the answer to this too, if there is an answer.

From my days when I fabricated things from metal, I only know of two ways: 1) Cut or grind notches into the metal (probably a very dicey thing to try in this case.). 2) Thinning it by etching it in an acid bath. (this is sometimes done to reduce the weight of components on race cars)

I wonder if this is even possible on an FP nib. Since discovering Noodlers Apache Sunset ink, I am interested in acquiring (or making) a flex.

I know that Richard Binder will flex a Pelikan nib for you but it sounds complicated. Somewhere I heard that it is harder to flex a modern pen nib than the vintage ones but I didn't read why. I have a couple of vintage flex nibs and they are really fun to play with. They are on a couple of Waterman Red ripples, my Conklin crescent filler, and a Wahl Gold seal pen. All produced circa 1918-1928.

BG,
There is a lot more than just thinning the metal at the edges of the nib.
According to Richard, not only does the nib profile need to be changed, but the thinness of the metal on the nib needs to be changed... and from what I was able to understand, it has to be properly tapered so that the nib flexes correctly without taking a set when writing..
This is definitely not a job for someone without a lot of experience...

Of course, all the people who have a lot of experience today started somewhere. Needless to say, practicing on junk pens of little value is probably wise at first.

Sure, if you want to play with gold nibs... because modern steel nibs do not work well when trying to create a flex...

you gradually remove material from the tines up to the breather hole (from underneath) sort of creating a "taper" so to speak in the cross sectional profile of your nib. Then you blend the material removal from the tip and extend it for 1/16" below the breather hole. You have to accomodate the feed to suply for a lot of extra ink withouth running out of ink or blotting if yu exert little pressure. You can use some rifflers (curved miniature swiss pattern files) or a dremel stylus with coarse rubber polishing disks. That's general speaking, soooo general. When you lay it off like that it actually sounds pretty easy...

any pics/diagrams to illustrate all of that jicaino...??

man, you love tmo make me work don't you!

have to keep you off the streets and out of trouble ya know...

I've often wondered if the gold 'spring' alloys would make a good nib-stock. I doesn't seem like it would take much to roll to the proper thickness, hand die cut, tip and then split. I keep saying one of these days I am going to learn how to re-tip nibs. I have the proper torch and think it would be just getting used to braising/silver-soldering at that level of detail.

Then, I could learn how to slit the ..... never mind, I think I will just wait on a good nib-meister or buy old flex-nibs.

Anybody got a few spare flex-nibs for Parker "51"s?

Ron

jicaino - hi - yes please - diagrams would be nice - i can see a few pens meeting their fate
Also I would like to ask - Why is it that steel is not considered a good flex material - I see a few of Japanese steel nib flex pens on the bay advertised as super flex and going for obscene prices. If anything gold is softer - harder to work with and less strong of a metal to my rather simplistic understanding?.
Thanks for your time
badrsj

steel is definitely a great flex material... think "spring steel"!!... just I think people generally (myself included) have a bias towards gold... all that glitters and all that

steel is good for flex, especially some german modern pens (rotring, lamys) with "square boxed" shape nib. You just refrain from working on the sidewalls on that nibs, and work over the entire surface where the breather hole is (or should be)

It appears, from your diagram, that the goal is to move the shoulders of the nib back to the breather hole or possibly even beyond. Is that correct?

not only that (wich you can skip for begining as it's the hardest part) but the main goal is to reduce the tines thickness as they approach the breather hole. You keep the tip section thick and remove material from the underside of the nib.

thanks for the diagram... interesting tho... none of my flexies... eg a superb!!! Swan #2 that has lovely (bordering on sexy ) slender/tapered tines the shoulders do not extend past the breather hole... but I guess for a nib not initially deigned to be a flex may need this done to get the taper to the tines

must NOT extend past the breather hole, just a diagram, not a picture

sorry, not good at compouter fast sketching.

this is more "in tune"




that's my understanding after cutting in halves several scrap flex nibs, and trying to reproduce what I've seen. I'd love to hear from a real nibmeister here. Sorry about my crappy handwriting/sketching, I work all day long with tools and I have pretty tired hands right now (1.35 AM down here)

Thanks for your excellent sketches & explanations Jicaino, Very interesting indeed !
One question though : how do you manage to get the feed back in full contact with the nib once the nib is thinned as shown ?
regards, Francis

In flex nibs, the nib/feed contact in not as critical as in firm nib arrangements. flex nib feeds has to provide WAY more flow. In fact one of the limitations of turning your nib into flexers are indeed the feed wich has to be reworked. Plus, those drawings are grossly exagerating what's going on. Every nib has a conical profile, being the point side thicker than the heel.the feed seats below the area where you reduced tines thickness and the blending area is all about "leveling" the underside of the imprint area (or where should the imprint be) with your desired tines thickness. Plus you get to reseat the feed once you're done. You want it as closed as possible to the nib, so you can have ink flow variation according to line variation, otherwise pen's gonna stall at you when flexing and blot when feathering it on fine strokes. Iridium shaping is very hard to achieve too--- you need to work them so they won't catch when separated yet keeping a reasonable amount of "squareness" on the inner edge so it won't become a hard starter when trying to produce a fine line (not flexing the nib)

From a ME standpoint, there are a couple of important points to reckon with.
First of as mentioned before, steel nibs don't work as wel because of their higher e-modulus, but to gain insight in the location of the trimming and shaving they can be of some use. It's just that the needed force to flex is uncomfortably high.

Regarding the shape of the nib, I don't have an opinion on where the shoulders should be, but you do want to make sure the tines move outward under pressure. This is a function of the shape of the nib, it will bend in the direction perpedicular to the weakest cross-section.

And, the blending of the thickness variation is important as steps in thickness create very high stress concentrations (and lead to nib failure).

I hope this is useful, and if someone has more info on nib grinding, books, links. That would be very welcome (I just screwed up a Lamy Vista nib in attempt to make a lefthand compatible stubby)!

Regards,

Jarno.

Nibs are but a few thousandths of an inch thick (use proper multiplier for the metric mind). I doubt the capillary action will be interrupted by the 'thinning' that takes place. Also, the nib will be 'tuned' by tine bending (it has already been beaten to a pulp) and probably a bit of burnishing.

jicaino's descriptions are spot on as far as I can tell. Jarno's explanations sound 'right' also. I have always suspected one of the reasons 14K gold is one of the best flex-nib materials is Beryllium and Copper could be part of the alloy. Beryllium Copper is a fantastic knife/spring alloy. My 'best' flex nibs have a 'Red Gold' color that is indicative of a copper-alloyed gold.

Ron

Thanks Jicaino for helping us understand the flex nib construction. Can you throw some more light on the "blending" process?

It would also be very nice if some one could post the patents (patent numbers) claimed by Waterman's and other famous flex nib manufacturers in order to understand their flex nib making techniques.

Regards,
Hari

the blending area is for avoiding spot stress on sudden thickness change areas. You should not be able to tell that a nib has been flex added, in an ideal case. Maybe it's a little longer than 1/16th" I'd say is as longer as you need to produce a virtually undetectable modification.

Apart from being very bad for your health, Beryllium makes the copper alloy more stiff. I am not sure this is desirable for a nib, it does make the material a bit stronger, which is desirable for a nib. I presume there is a trade-off there (do _not_ experiment with this yourself!).

Best regards,

Jarno.

Thanks to everybody for the contributions...

Keep 'em coming, but I wanted to throw in a quick thanks.

Sounds like it's not easy, but I'd to try on some cheapies...just for fun.

I would like to re-iterate the above comment, but unllike bgray, I will NOT be trying this in the very near future. It's nice to be aware of the principles of the ever elusive flex nib, and an insight to the craft of the famed "nibmeisters".

For me, it makes what they do, all the more appreciable, I have studied metallurgy fairly extensively in my former life as a ex-patternmaker, and had always considered it to be in the formula of the gold which was the major factor in a flex nib. Live and learn, is what it's all about really.

Thankyou,
et

when thinking of alloy components favoring one or another (as in flex or firm) you have to consider that non-ferrous metals gets tempered not by heat but by work like burnishing, compressing or hammering them. Alloy components plays a different role here than that of they will on diffrent steel types.

Hmm, I wonder if the "cold-working" applies to gold alloys as well, I know it does for most ferrous metals, and nonferros like copper alloys, some aluminium alloys. But gold, that's not something you come accross in an industrial environment, any goldsmiths here that can shed some light on this subject?
It does seem that the amount of foreign metals in 14k or 18k is very low (and these most of the times account for the "extra" properties that can be had because of heat-treating or cold-working).

Regards,

Jarno.

OK...

So the tools of choice here would be fine rifflers, or a dremel-type tool with very fine abrasive qualities, right?

Cold working -or burnishing - surely works on gold.
Note that the majority of nibs - surely the more flexible ones - are fabricated from cold rolled gold sheet.
Heating up bend nibs for straightening purposes is therefore rather critical.
Regards, Francis

absolutely critical. you can trash a nib by heating for ironing purposes. Cracks repair are critical too. I don't know if it works on nibs, but whenever I solder on saxophone necks (the first part of pipe, hence the most sensitive) I use liquid nitrogen and I get nice results... I suppose I can try'n see what happens with a nib...