I have been wanting a RHR greek key patterned Wahl for some time, but they always shoot w--a---y out of my price range. I snagged this on the other day at a price I could afford, mostly (I assume) because it has a tight crack in the lip of the cap. Otherwise it is quite beautiful--just what I wanted. Gold seal, flexible nib, and evenly colored VERY crisply chased pen that is 4.75 inches long capped.



The lip crack is not "barely noticeable" as it was described, but it is tight and doesn't impair the attachment of the cap at all. The furniture is flawless.

But when I took off the section, I found this:



An old repair? Can I trust this? Should I send the pen back? I'm quite certain the seller didn't know about this, and I'm not sure it is necessarily a hidden flaw--the pen was not sold as working, but as needing a new sac.

Then there was one more thing, and maybe this isn't unusual, but look at the inside of the barrel:



Some kind of soft metal liner. Maybe this is common, but my inexperience with these pens just hasn't revealed such a thing to me before, but it sure seems odd to me. Is it?

Have I done a bad deal, and should I ask the seller for a refund for undisclosed issues? I hate being a pesky ebayer, but I'm not sure whether this overall is a pen that can be a trusted user, given these interior oddities.

Any info about this stuff or about this model in general would be most appreciated.

(and, ps, another pen of this type, though not with the military clip and not described as gold seal went for half of what I paid for this one, without any cracks! So eBay goes, eh!)

Shari, I think some other factors may need to come into consideration on what appears to be a unique pen, and maybe a earlier repair. What are you planning to do with, use it or display? If using it, I would think the metal lining may add strength to the pen, and since it wouldn't be visable it becomes somewhat moot anyway. If it is for your collection and your interset is authenticity, sending it back would not be unreasonable if you cite the issues. regardless it appears to be a beautiful pen! John

Shari, that is a *lovely* pen....flaws and all
Congratulations on your purchase!

Well, it turns out things are a little more complicated now. In cleaning the old sac out of the barrel, a couple of small chips came off the edge of the threads. The pen still threads fine, but it turns out the HR of the barrel is quite thin and that inner sleeve is a good idea. Also, there will now be a second flaw visible on the pen when I use it. Too bad HR can't be repaired!



As for what I want from the pen, John, that's not easy to answer. I don't use all my pens, but I want them all to be usable. I have few pens that many on these boards would call true collector grade, but certain kinds of imperfections irritate me, like a cap not threading properly or a pen that hasn't been brought back into usability, or a nib that is not correct. I have discovered tonight what I feared this afternoon: that these older repairs were indicators of a certain fragility of the pen. Of course, if the pen doesn't leak and the nib is well adjusted, I never need open the pen again.

I have to admit--and I know I am in dangerous water here--that it does matter to me that now that I have a pretty good basic pen collection, that I begin to "buy smart" in the sense that if something else comes along that I want or that is a bit better grade that I haven't made a purchase that would offer no value in trading up or in the "catch and release" mode of pen collecting I have to enter to be able to afford this hobby. So issues of whether something is properly repaired or typical of a certain pen model are of general interest to me as somebody who just likes these darned things and is interested in their history, but those issues also have an impact on the try and sell and trade and enjoy and move on stuff that allows me to afford to continue to acquire new pens in this hobby.

Regardless, it is a beautiful pen, as both of you say (thanks!!) and I'm just thrilled with how nice and sharp the chasing is. I dipped the nib, and it's just great. So I'll be keeping the pen. I'd still be curious to know if these kinds of repairs are typical of these pens, though.

Could this pen have been repaired following a shattering? maybe the pieces were glued to the metal tube.

The photo showing the threads appears to show previous damage, is it possible the threaded pieces which broke off were simply the result of glue no longer holding them to the metal tube?

Even HR should not be as fragile as this pen appears.

Shari,
The pen and the section you show are ALL ORIGINAL, aluminum liner and all! The Gold Seal pens in plastic and hard rubber were all aluminum lined at the factory. The section, as yours is, was covered in aluminum where the section friction fits into the barrel. RHR is more brittle than BHR. Strangely, on the plastic Gold Seal pens, the plastic has usually shrunk a tiny amount and leaves the aluminum liner protruding about 1/32" out of/beyond the barrel lip and usually needs to be trimmed back to make the aluminum and plastic flush.

While the thread area can not be repaired, it can be trimmed down to a point where the leading edge of the threads is smooth and a clean line all around. This means that the cap will nor thread onto the barel with as many turns as originally, but it will hold well enough. This should be done by a pro, because the RHR is so brittle that the method and motion to do it right is a skill many of us have had to learn out of necessity.

The pen you bought is otherwise a nice pen amd the gold seal in the cap dome is a rarer arrangement. RHR gold seal pens are pretty rare all together since the Gold Seals were made from 1928-1930/31 and hard rubber pens were not made after that. As a matter of fact the Wahl Eversharp hard rubber pen line was almost all but gone apart from a few items by the time your pen was made. Yours is actually the last of a great era.

It is Model #6409 SC (Soldier Clip so-called because the clip being so near the top of the cap that the pen sat deep in the pocket and could go in a pocket with a flap which is what soldier uniform jackets and shirts had, so "Soldier Clip") The pen should have a Gold Seal nib, Personal Point in the section, meaning that the nib and feed unscrew and are interchangeable. There was a matching pencil available.

Hope this helps some

Syd the Wahlnut

The nib is correct. THough I had never seen the inside of one of these pens and the metal sleeve made me curious, I am not really surprised to hear it is original, as it fits so perfectly as to seem the RHR was molded around it, and the sleeve goes all the way down the barrel (or at least as far as my little gooseneck light will let me see). That the metal on the section is original is very surprising, though.

Thanks for the info. Sure is a neat pen, and the nib is to die for!

Shari,
Just wanted to congradulate you on this gorgeous pen. Despite the slight damage these pens usually have plenty of cap cracks that are easy to see, and the colour on this pen looks fantastic. It being a gold seal model with a great nib really puts it over the top for me!
I just won a similar sized pen (I don't know if it was the one you were refering to in your 1st post). I'll have to throw a few pictures up when I get it!
Pearce.

yep, Pearce, it was you! I had planned to come back from a meeting and bid higher, but I got detained after the meeting and missed out. Congrats to you! I'll look forward to seeing pix of your pen, which looked fab in the eBay photos.

As for this one, thanks for the encouragement. Knowing that this metal is not a sign of previous repairs but is original to the pen makes me a lot more comfortable with the pen (no logic to this, but then, there is little logic in having dozens or even hundreds of pens when one can only use one at a time either), and once I inked it up, I fell thoroughly in love.

I still wouldn't mind having two!

The prices on both of these pens, including my flawed one, really surprised me, as I have had my eye on a nice chased RHR Wahl for sometime, and these are the first (other than thoroughly bunged up pens or ones missing caps or other parts) that I have seen sell well under $500 on eBay or at the few shows I have attended.

Yep, I have to admit that I was just as surprised as you were. I saw your's go off and figured it would go quite high, and then this last one I figured I would just give it a shot, and well I got lucky I guess! Every once and a while people do miss things on Ebay, now I just need to keep my eyes out for a matching pencil, (I'll keep my eyes open for one that might match yours too).
Pearce.

The only thing to add about the aluminum sleeved Wahls (e.g., gold seal personal pts.) if you did not know already is to never allow the aluminum sleeve to get wet. This is because with wetness the aluminum can start to corrode, and the expanding corrosion can lead to a cracked barrel and cap. I learned the hard way. Don't do that with such a beautiful pen.

Hello All,

Well to Shari and the others that read my post I finally received my own RHR Wahl. I did end up being crack free but has one small flea chip at the top of the thread section. Sorry for the poor pictures, I have to clean my scanner and I have yet to clean the pen. The section is marked up but I would think it can be cleaned up to look a little more presentable. Let me know what you think!
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
Pearce.

I think that is a fine looking pen. I'd say we both did well!

Thanks for sharing the photos.