Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,

I come before you today to ask your advice. I am currently saving up all my money (or as much as I can put aside), to buy a Parker Duofold, sometime within the next few months. Ideally, I'd like to be able to buy it by Christmas, as a little, well-earned, well-saved treat for myself. This gives me about four months to save up the necessary moolah (Approx $200-$300).

I would deem my knowledge of Duofolds to be 'Moderate'. I'd like to think I know the bare bones, but I don't know that much about specifics, which is why I'm making this topic.

I know that Duofolds started production in 1921 with the colours BLACK and RED in hard rubber, and changed to PLASTIC in 1926, and boasting a wider range of colours such as yellow, green and blue. I know that the original Duofolds were button-fillers.

I know that in the 1980s, the Parker Duofold Centennial was released to celebrate the Parker Pen Company's 100th birthday.

RIGHT NOW - I am considering buying a Parker Duofold Centennial in either YELLOW, BLUE or RED. The nib will be either FINE or MEDIUM.

That is my selection based on all the reading & research and site-browsing that I've done over the past few weeks.

What I would like from you guys, is a factsheet & 'FAQ', about Duofolds, to help me make up my mind.

What should I look for?
What should I look out for?
What are the pros and cons of modern and vintage Duofolds?
Which one is more value for money?
Are button-fill Duofolds easy to break? (This was one of the chief reasons why I was worried about going for a vintage one).
What are the Parker Duofold Internationals?
Could anybody provide size-comparisons for all the pens in the Duofold lines, past & present?

Thanks in advance,

Shangas.

PS - I do hope that this isn't too much to ask.

PPS - As the date draws closer, I may have more questions, so please bear with me!

Not at all. Probably better than C/C with the modern one. But then again you shouldn't be dropping the cap/ barrel every day.

If you find a vintage duofold (I would suggest getting one from an excellent seller which is already restored), get it restored by Richard, or Ron.

Parker knew their nibs in the 1920's. Its hard to explain them compared to a modern one... There just better.

George

I should've been more specific with that question.

I was referring to the FILLING SYSTEM ITSELF. Not the pen. I rarely drop my pens. My concern was that the filling-system might break.

The filling system on the vintage button filling Parker Big Red (and the other versions in other colors) is pretty basic, the usual sac, a spring and the button that fits on the end of the spring. From what I can see it is just about as simple to repair as the standard lever filler. So I would expect that they should be pretty stout, mine sure seems to be, repair is reasonable, mine was (I had my Big Red repaired by Fountain Pen Hospital, some minor nib work, clean/polish, sac and sac spring.)

There is very little to go wrong, yes, the spring could break, the sac could break/leak, the button might fall off, but each can, and are, replaced easily even by first time repairers.

I think the standard lever filler has more parts, more to go wrong (especially the Waterman boxed levers), yet most think they are pretty simple to repair.

FWIW, I bought a Centennial in 1988 when they first came out and it was the best pen I've owned - until it was stolen. (Wish the blighter had taken my MB 149 and left me the Duofold!)

I have both vintage Duofolds and moderns (Centennials and Internationals). I like them all.

For my hand, the vintage Senior and the Centennial are both the perfect size. Although the nibs and feeds are very different, to me, they are equally rewarding to use. The Senior has a prodigious ink capacity, but the Centennial gives the flexibility of C/C filling.

So, here's my advice: get both. You can probably find a reasonably-priced vintage Senior in Permanite and also a good-condition gently used Centennial for the price of a brand-new Centennial. One word of caution: Centennial nibs run on the broad side, so a "fine" is closer to a "medium", especially when compared with vintage Duofold nibs.

Happy writing!

Okay, thanks for the information. What's the difference between the Duofold Centennials and the Duofold Internationals?

From what I read, the Centennials are much the same size as the original 1920s Duofolds. How do the Internationals differ?

the Internationals are slightly thinner and slightly shorter - very close in size to a Parker "51"; also, they have a smaller nib and different feed from the Centennial. Although I currently have an International inked and enjoy using it, if I could only have one pen, I would prefer the Centennial.

Centennials are big pens. I have the International in Black and Pearl and Sr and Jr versions of the 1920's Duofolds. I love them all!! Here is a picture with a International Black and pearl and associated pencil. Then the 1920s Sr and pencil and Jr and Pencil. Hope this visual comparison helps.

Hmmm...this is a lot of food for thought here.

The things I've made certain on, are the colour (either red, yellow or blue), and the nib (F or M). I wish I could hold an original Duofold, a Centennial and an International in my hands to figure out how big each one is. Unless someone has measurements? People say that older fountain pens, like the Duofold of the 1920s, were of superior quality because they were constructed in a time-period when quality counted. Have other Duofold owners found this to be true? Or is there no real difference in quality between modern & old Duofolds?

Hi,

Nothing really to add to what he others have said International or Centennial duofolds tend to write well and are pretty reliable, as I understand are well restored vintage example (I only have one, a Junior button filler, whic h still works prety well, but is a bit small for extended use).

By the way pakmanponey that's a nice selection of Pearl Duofolds, I have one of the old pencils and am always on the look out for a reasonably priced FP to match it. At the moment all my modern Duofolds are International size, but looking to get a Centennial if a nice finish comes up at the right price.

Andy

Hey Andy, thanks.

Okay, now I can include the possibility of getting a real antique fountain pen for myself!

By the way - Is there any difference between hard rubber & permalite (plastic)? Which one is stronger? What should I look out for, and how should I store it? (I read somewhere that if you store the old hard-rubber or permalite pens somewhere where it's hot, they'll all melt to goo. Similiarly, if you put them somewhere too cold, they'll crack).

The plastic Parkers are stronger than the hard rubber ones. Parker used to advertize that they threw the permalite pen from a plane into the Grand Canyon and they survived the fall.

Hard Rubber can crack more easily than many plastics, but given reasonable care, and keep them out of bright light (which causes the color to fade) hard rubber will stand up to most normal usage. I have one black hard rubber eyedropper that to look at it you would think it was just made last week, I have another that has lived a bit more roughly, it has faded quite a bit and has a chip out of the lip of the cap, but other wise it is still quite usable, or will be once I put a nib into it. Both pens are at least 100 years old, I would not mind being in the condition of the worst of these two pens at that age.

I think the “get’em hot and they melt into goo” idea came from the very earliest days of using rubber, once Vulcanizing was discovered those days were pretty much over.

As for permalite, get it hot enough and yes, it will melt, but if you are holding the pen you will start melting as well. The melting point for it is somewhere above 140 F.

I'd go with a vintage Duofold. If you're up for a little repair work you can find them for pretty good prices on ebay.

But yet again in not really one to ask because I only have a vintage Duofold, and it's my favourite pen.

Thanks Andy, the bigest problem besides price is actually finding a B&P FP that has good body color. I got really lucky with mine!

Heh. Looks like buying a vintage Big Red or a yellow or blue might actually be not a bad idea after all. I was so worried about these because they're so old (80 years). I wasn't sure I could trust myself with them. But this news has made me feel more at-home with it. Thanks guys If anything else happens, I'll post it here.

By the way - Do the bands on the cap & barrel (those gold-plated metal bands), provide any sort of practical structual protection & reinforcement? (To prevent cracking etc), or are they just there for decoration? Because I wanted to buy a Duofold with some bands on it.

Hello guys,

So far, I have saved $57 (Yay!) for my Parker Duofold. I've decided to get either a yellow, red or blue plastic one, from 1926 or later, with a button-filler and F-nib.

I have a couple of questions: Are button-fill mechanisms easy to damage? How easy are they repair if they are damaged? (cost?).

Also - I know some pens have metal bands around them (around the cap & barrel, for example).

Are these bands purely for aesthetic reasons? Or can/do/are they there for 'reinforcement'? To stop the plastic from cracking? I wanted to get a Duofold with bands on it, you see, and I was hoping that they might serve some sort of practical purpose apart from just making the pen look pretty.

Good decision; the Mandarin yellow and Lapis blue models are fairly pricey; so you'll likely wind up with the red model - which is, after all, the pen that started the Duofold legend.

While the earlier red hard rubber (RHR) models are more fragile, and a pristine cap is hard to find in these (they command a premium price), the later red Permanite models are plentiful and much more robust - cap cracking is not generally a problem. Having acquired and restored a number of abused basket cases, I have not yet found one with a cracked or chipped cap. So, the bands on these later models are primarily for show.

On the subject of cracks, look carefully at the threads of the barrel - the section screws into the barrel, and if it has been over-tightened, it can send a crack right through the external threads.

The other place to look for cracks is on the nib, usually extending from the breather hole.

The button filler is both simple and elegant. It is easy to fix, and the worst case scenario is that a new pressure bar (available for a few dollars from many pen repair suppliers) might need to be fitted if the original is bent or very corroded.

The Duofold Senior is a very durable pen, and makes an excellent daily writer. You will find it to be low-maintenance and a pleasure to use.

Hey Romagno!

Thankyou VERY much for that!

I wanted to buy a 1926 (or later) model because I just didn't trust myself with a hard-rubber pen. I considered them too delicate. Right now, Mandarin Yellow, Lapis Blue or Red are all possibilities for me. I haven't decided on which one, yet. But not black or green. I already have a black pen, and I have no desire for green.

It's nice to know that the later models are easier to obtain. That helps a lot! By the way - I know where to look for cracks. Having cracked a pen before, I know where these things happen - But my question was - Do the rings around the pens help prevent accidental cracking? (from over-tightening, say?) I wanted a pen with rings on it, you see.

Thanks very much for the assurance on the button-fill mechanism. I was worried that it was really fragile! Thanks for the information, friend. I am looking forward more than ever, to buying my Duofold now.

One more question:

In my posession, I currently have Montblanc jet-black and Parker Quink jet-black fountain pen ink, contained in ink-bottles.

Are inks such as these, suitable for filling up an antique Parker Duofold, given the pen's age & material-makeup?

The cap rings would stabilize a crack, if one were to occur; again, the Senior Permanite pens are pretty rugged, so I think the question is moot.

My "standard" inks are Quink blue-black, Waterman's blue and blue-black, and I also use Private Reserve American Blue (so far, my favorite blue).

As a rule of thumb, Quink, Waterman's, Diamine inks are fine with vintage pens. Modern, more saturated inks could cause clogging if left in a seldom-used pen to dry, so I would use these only if the pen will be used often, flushing with water in between ink fills.

I also find that depending on the feed/nib, some of my vintage Duofolds like a free-flowing ink and some like a drier-writing ink. You will need to experiment and find the best-writing ink for your pen.

Okay, thanks

Now I know that I can continue using Parker Quink. That's a relief!

I'm not remotely interested in vintage Duofolds, so I won't comment on them.

As for the modern ones, my preference is strongly for the mark I type, the flattop, which was introuduced in 1987-88. I feel the nib is better and the pen carries more character. The modern streamline version introduced in the mid 1990s is somehow less appealing.

If you have the cash, consider buying a Duofold CP5. I have a set and I will never sell it (my avatar displays one of the pens). These pens are heavy sterling Duofolds, customised by Classic Pens into real luxury items. It's like taking an average Ford and giving it a Porsche engine!

Help!

I was reading up on vintage Duofolds today, trying to narrow down my choices, and I read that the old Mandarin Yellow Duofolds (Made from 1926-1933?) - Are very fragile & prone to cracking. Is this true??

Yes, for some reason the yellow material cracked very readily.
And the cracks are easier to see.
The cap lips tend to chip also.

So a Mint Condition Mandarin Yellow Duofold Sr will cost $1,300 plus.
I've seen them posted for sale at $1,800 but I don't know if they actually sell at that price.

Thanks, Glenn.

I read it at www.penhero.com



So I suppose my choices are now down to red or blue (I despise green, and I already have a black pen). I think I will probably go for red. Is there any other information or advice people have to give me? Just in case of...whatever?

The Big Red is the more common, and more reasonably priced, version out there, pretty tough pens as long as you practice reasonable precautions (don’t over force the cap when posting it.) Pretty good pens overall. Just decide what size you want (Jr./Sr. are by far the most common, there is an in-between size as well, but I seldom see one. Sizes are in order I mentioned them: 4.5”/5.5”/5”)

1926 and later are of Permanite, much more rugged than the red hard rubber. Don’t use them as darts and they should all last longer than you do. Mine is a 26 Sr. in red, great pen and was not at all expensive, it certainly makes an impression when I pull it out. ;-) It is not a low-key pen.

Thanks Harry.

Well, I think I have made up my mind now.

I'll be going for a Parker Duofold made of red permalite with at least one cap-band, FINE nib, button-fill. Made 1926 or later.

Any thoughts on what a pen such as that might cost, fully-restored or in 'as-new' condition? The prices I've found so far are all pretty high.

The 1926 Senior, single band I got was $157 US, plus I had to do some repair work on it (sent it out to be done, so it cost actual money.) The Juniors are less. It was one of my first real quality pens and I probably spent too much on it, but I felt it was worth it at the time, still do. I got mine on eBay, spend time getting to know how the general auctions for those pens run and you should be able to do better.

I did spend weeks watching lots of auctions, but I seemed to attract crazy counter bidders whenever I get into an auction for Parkers. I shouldn’t mention the weirdness that went on every time I bid on a Parker Big Red pencil, mechanical pencils that should have gone for approximately $30 to $50 would almost instantly shoot up to plus $150 prices. No joke, week after week of watching the identical pencils go at reasonably prices at the finish line, but whenever I bid it would just go insane, one went for more than $230, as far as I could tell it was just your normal Big Red MP in no way different than those that had commonly gone in multiple sales for well under $60. I finally broke down and took a “buy it now” for $45, it was well worth it for me at the time. I was able to switch the outer case with the busted one I already owned and make one good MP out of the two, some day I will have to take the time to fix the other since I now know what needs to be done to repair it properly.

So with all the bidding weirdness on both Parker pencils and fountain pens i ended up paying somewhat higher for the fountain pen than I probably should have. Still I am quite happy with my acquisitions.

Oh yes, on the auctions that went completely nuts? Everyone of them that I followed ended up being paid for and positive feedback posted both ways. It still seems completely insane, but I guess that the buyers were happy enough. Weird just does not quite explain it though.

Jeepers!!

The prices I've seen so far, vary from $200-$300. That's in US. dollars, but I'll be paying Australian.

Yep. If in excellent + condition, that's about the going rate. Some will sell for less, some for more.

Shangas, a '20s Duofold won't come cheaply unless there's something wrong with it. The permanite goes for a lot less than the hard rubber. If finances are an issue, don't write off the black one. Black pens usually are less desirable than colored ones, but dealers don't really want them sitting in stock forever. So, some dealers will put desirable nibs on their black pens, and more common nibs on the pens that will sell for other reasons. I've got a fairly large collection of big black pens that are great writers.

What do you like to write with? Most Duofolds are a firm fine. They can write very smoothly, but have little or no flex. I like a bit 'o flex in vintage nibs, which you're more likely to find in vintage Canadian than US Duofold nibs (although you can find good US writers with some searching). I do think that a firm fine is more suitable for throwing at dart boards or starting nail holes, but that's a personal preference (and early Sheaffer's are even worse). A friend of mine loves these pens, so I never have to worry when I get one that's too fine for me. I know that he'll love it.

I strongly advise against using eBay if this is going to be a major purchase for you. It will be worth a bit of extra money to buy the right pen from a reputable dealer. eBay is a crap shoot. I've gotten some excellent pens there, but I can do a lot of my own restoration. I've also gotten some wastes of money. If this is a major pen purchase, you'll do far better letting a good dealer help you get exactly the right pen, with the right nib, and won't have the worries about restoration issues. eBay may save a little money, but if you're not ready to do the restoration yourself, it's going to save you a lot less than you would think.

Hi Hirsch,

1. Yes, I realise a vintage Duofold is going to cost a fair bit of paper.
2. I'm not a fan of flex-nibs. I have a dip-pen with a flex-nib, and I just can't control it. A stiff fine or medium nib is what I'm after.
3. And no, I'm NOT going to ebay. That's too much of a risk for something that costs this much. The Parker Duofold will most likely be my one-and-only vintage pen purchase, and I want to do it right. It's a historically significant pen, and it looks beautiful, that's why I want it. The last thing I wanna do is screw up the purchase! I know a guy here in Melbourne, some people here know him too, a chap named Peter Ford. He sells vintage & modern pens out of a rather sizable antiques center which, luckily, is just a few blocks from my house. I will be going there to make my purchase.

I've already bought a Parker 51 Flighter from him, fully-restored and it works WONDERFULLY. I use it nearly every day, and I love it.

If you haven't elready, you might want to check out the Duofold articles in the "Reference Info" section at richardspens.com.

I have a Duofold International and it used to be my very favorite pen. It has a medium nib and I have come to prefer a finer nib. The medium nib on the International (~1989) is on the large side of medium, I would say.

Mehitabel

...and I just put mine on ebay.uk item no. 170152536760 I asked here for identification and there was a dispute as to whether it is an International or a Centennial. Any take a look.
Railea

RIGHT NOW - I am considering buying a Parker Duofold Centennial in either YELLOW, BLUE or RED. The nib will be either FINE or MEDIUM.

That is my selection based on all the reading & research and site-browsing that I've done over the past few weeks.

What I would like from you guys, is a factsheet & 'FAQ', about Duofolds, to help me make up my mind.

The International is 5 1/8" capped, 5 5/8" posted excluding nib.

Did you check out the Duofold info in the Reference section at richardspens.com?

Cathy

Update!!

Thanks for the help, everyone. For answer, yes, I have checked richardspens.com, several times. It has been an invaluable source of information in helping me with this quest.

I have finally made up my mind:

Parker 'Big Red' in red permalite (making it 1926 or later). F nib. At least one cap-band and in mint (or as near-mint condition), as I can get it.

I've poked around and have decided to pay a visit to Melbourne Vintage Pens and Mr. Peter Ford. I've got the funds and I've made up my mind. Dad and I will be going there on the 18th of November (Sunday), to speak to Peter and hopefully I'll be able to get my Parker Duofold!!!!

I AM SO EXCITED! Wish me luck, guys!

Yours,

S.

PS - I was in Sydney recently, and paid a visit to 'The Pen Shop' (26, O'Connell St, Sydney, Australia), to see if they had anything...unfortunately no. Only the modern Duofolds, which I wasn't that interested in purchasing.

10 days and counting... :-) I've been researching vintage Duofolds as well. I've been wanting one for a while but have been sidetracked with 61's as of late.

Be sure to post a pic and your thoughts afterwards. I'm very interested in your impressions of your "dream pen" once you have it for a few days.

Dave

A newbie here is going to follow what you have discovered. I am in the path to get to a Duo in my collection (small one at that, yet) sooner than later. I would appreciate it if you keep this till the end and let me know of your experience with it. Thanks.

Hi guys,

Yes, of course I'll post pictures & thoughts/review of the pen when I get it. 11th of November today!! Only one more week!! Hopefully, I'll be able to buy it in one visit (Ford is only there at his shop for the first & third Sundays of every month. If I miss the chance on Sunday, I'll have to wait another month). I hope that he has some sort of box or container which I can put it into to protect it.

Just a brief question to those who might be able to answer it:

I know that Parker Duofolds came in several variations - Senior, junior, lady's, vest-pocket etc... What is the difference in the sizes? (Actual measurements in inches/cm wanted, if possible). I want to buy a Duofold Senior but if I don't get the chance, then I'll go for a junior, and I just wanted to know how big these pens were.

Hello, Shangas. All measurements in Inches

::::::::::::Capped::::::Uncapped::::::Posted

Senior:::::5-1/2:::::::::5-1/4::::::::::6-3/4

Special:::::5::::::::::::::4-3/4:::::::::6-1/4

Junior::::::4-9/16::::::::4-1/4:::::::::5-3/4

The first vintage Duofold that I ever owned is a Junior - it is a nice pen, but it is too short for my hand to use unposted ( have a medium-large hand and wear a size 7-1/2 or 8 glove).

The Special is a comfortable size to use unposted (which I prefer).

The Senior is perfect unposted, a comfortable length, weight and balance for me. For the last 2 weeks, I have had a Black Permanite Senior in the rotation, and I like it very much.

BTW, vintage Duofold nibs are finer than modern Parker nibs - I find that a modern Parker Duofold nib in fine is roughly equivalent to a vintage medium.

Here's my final recommendation: go for a Senior, and accept some minor cosmetic flaws, like brassing, if price is an issue. It really is a very nice user.

Good luck.

Thanks very much for the measurements! I yanked out a ruler and checked it against my hand. I think a Junior going to be too small for me. A Senior would fit best, if I can get it. I invariably use FINE nibs, so I don't think that will be a problem.

Now I know exactly what to look for! Thanks!

Juniors aren't all that bad. That's what mine is and I have no problem writing with it unposted and I have large hands for a girl.

My pens (All of them. Every single one) measure 5.5 inches and that's what I'm used to. I've been using pens that size for years, so that's what I want to hunt down. If the Senior fits that description, that's what I'll go after.

I just hope Peter has one! I'll find out this Sunday. Wish me luck, guys!!

EDIT: FOUR DAYS TO GO!!!

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, animals of all...descriptions...

Tomorrow morning, I am heading off to the Armadale Antiques Center to try my luck at buying my Parker Duofold!! Wish me luck! I'll post tomorrow afternoon, with results.

Hope you managed to get the one you wanted. There's lots of us waiting to cheer!

- Mark

Hey Mark,

Bad news, folks. Peter didn't have the pen I was after. He had several near hits. A Parker Duofold, red, but in hard rubber, which I didn't want. A Parker Duofold (junior, by the looks of it), in Lapis blue, which I wasn't interested in, and a Parker Duofold in red permanite, ring-top lady's design, which I also wasn't interested in.

HOWEVER: Hope is not lost. This SUNDAY is the MELBOURNE PEN SHOW and I am GOING THERE TO FIND MY PEN!! *Brandishes sword and charges off into the battle to find his pen*

Ah well! Still the Pen Show sounds a much better bet, and hopefully you'll have the pick of the bunch and at a better price.

Is the countdown going to start again?

- Mark

Oh very funny!! Well whatever...It's Tuesday morning now (12:41am). The show is on Sunday. Dad is getting twitchy to coming along too...

hi,

parker duofolds were among my first holy grail and i adore big reds. they remind me of a time when the fountain pens were king. i always used a fountain pen in school. the invention of the ball point pen happened during my school days--and the first leaky ones made a fountain pen user for life.

now to preference. i love vintage pens. i am amazed by their fillers--levers, bulbs crescents, buttons, snorks etc. you get the picture.
cartridge pens are not so interesting to me. although the new acryllics, celluloids, plastics make the new pens interesting.

so it is up to you!!

si i have a hard rubber, and a permanite big red--and a few juniors including a mandarin ring top.

collecting is fun!!

Holy Mary, mother of God...

I think I finally have it.

There's this one, which looks absolutely MINT. It doesn't say if it's been restored, though:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BIG-Red-Parker-Duofold...1QQcmdZViewItem

There's this one, which looks like it's been knocked around a bit. Hasn't been restored. I wonder what it would cost for Richard to fix it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Parker-Duofold...1QQcmdZViewItem

Lastly, there is this one, which is apparently fully-restored, but has a crack in the barrel. The seller says that the crack is unnoticeable, but still...:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Parker-Duofold-Big-Red...1QQcmdZViewItem

I ask you eBay veterans - Which one should I bid for?

What happened to the Pen Show?

- Mark