The Parker 51 is a very appealing fountain pen- BUT - is it overrated as a writing instrument?

From an 'eye appeal' viewpoint and quality of constructionthe 51 really has no competition as far as I am concerned. However,as a writer I have always found it disapointing - the shielded nib is smooth but too firm and the pen tends to be a 'dry writer'. My recent purchase of a 1952 UK Senior Duofold has been an eye opener - the nib is wonderfully smooth and has some flexibility, with a nice wet line. This pen is my favourite writer!!

Denis

In a word, no.

Nib too firm? Maybe you're in the habit of pressing too firmly. I don't notice any difference in firmness between my "51"s and my Onoto or my Vacumatics or my Skylines -- except when I'm using a pen with a flex nib, I don't exert enough writing pressure to make any difference. This is the way fountain pens prefer things; they want to glide over the paper on a lubricating film of ink, and pressure squeezes the ink out -- result: less smoothness and freedom than the pen is capable of delivering.

Dry writer? Maybe you need to get your pens adjusted. People who have used a "51" that I've adjusted will tell you that it's anything but dry.

Chacun à son goût, obviously, but the "51" has earned my vote as the best fountain pen ever designed, and its writing qualities are part and parcel of what makes it so great.

Depends on what you want in a pen. Got to remember when the P51 was made, men were men wimmen were wimmen and FPs were not "writing instruments" to be discussed and dissected on the Internet like some new resturant. A firm pen could handle a couple of layers of carbon copies and dry writing would not bleed through the top layer.

The big stub nibs of the day were for official document signings, personal correspondence was done with the flexxy nibbed stuff...but the P51 was the workhorse pen.

So..'tis all in what you want in a pen. If ya wants a flexxy wet expressively cool..then the P51 probably ain't gonna work to your advantage. But for day-in/day-out reliable writing...P51 worked then and works now...

Bill...all for everyone getting what ever they want as long as they chose wisely...and wisely means NOT CHOSING MBs

I suspect many will disagree with the assessment that the "51" is overrated as a writing instrument, so I won't just pile on. I will make one point, which is that like any vintage pen, unless you buy one that has been restored, there is always the potential for it to be mistuned, filled with dried superchrome ink that is nearly impossible to get out without disassembly, have misaligned tines, etc.... just like with any vintage pen. The "51", as noted, was designed to be a daily user workhorse pen, so many of them found in the wild have been well used and may not have always seen the most careful use as a result. Additionally, the design itself and the materials themselves have thankfully proven to be really hearty and robust, which means they almost always can be restored into wonderful writing condition but it does not mean that they arrive in our hands always in that condition. Consequently, I do think the reputation of the pen and the robust materials do often create a heightened, perhaps unfairly, expectation of what a "51" will do straight away when it arrives in the mail. If it is one bought from one of the restorers here on the FPN or a few other sources, you can trust that it will arrive in wonderful writing condition. But if you've bought it with an unknown repair history, it may arrive in remarkable physical condition on the outside, but the insides are a roll of the dice.

Any "51" has the potential to be a Great Writer, BUT, any "51" found in the wild, be it Vac or Aero, is going to need some measure of restoration. However, once correctly restored the "51" is THE writing experience IMHO. But then I use them as a daily workhorse writer, everything from notations on spreadsheets, PostIt notes, shopping lists, note taking and signing about anything and everything, basically as a General Purpose Writing Instrument, which was what the design was for. Take it out of your pocket, uncap and write!

Get somebody to look at your "51" and you Will Be Amazed.

Jim

I have to agree. A P-51 from the wild is often not a great pen. But with a bit of a soak and then loosen up the hood, clean off everything, clear out the gunk and accumulated dried ink, reassemble and you have a great writer. You can get anything from a very fine nib to a great big wide nib ( one of mine is a factory OOB nib at 1.3mm). Try a restored P-51 first and you will be hooked. The other nice thing about these pens is that for the most part they are easy to restore and rartelty too tricky. I write through 2 loads of ink every day on my daily rounds as a physician and this is one of the pens that is always in my pocket. The other pen is often a parker 75 with a XF nib. No leaks or inky fingers ever with the 51!
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Rob

I don't get it but maybe others do. SO to me it is overrated but your milage might vary

K

I think that those that have been thru this for some time and wrote with a wide assortment of pens, can say that pretty much this is the nail on the head.

I have yet to find a 51 that I could not easily get rid of. I'm glad they are plentiful and there is high demand, because it makes them all the quicker to sell and convert into a pen that I would much prefer.

One thing that I will give them, is the design is sturdy, and rugged. I prefer flighters, if any, or a 1st year DJ, wedding band cap.

Own about a dozen of them, and see how boring they get!

I currently have eleven "51"s. Gosh, I guess I can't ever buy another one or they'll all suddenly become boring.

Absolutely not over rated. It is the best selling fountain pen of all time for a reason.
All of mine have been good, wet healthy writers. It is the only model that is always in my daily writer pocket.

And, umm, if that purple one is boring you, Richard, I'd be pleased to take it off your hands.

Richard,

You are already in danger of getting bored -- he said "about a dozen". Eleven is one short, and that's about as "about a dozen" as you can get without actually being a dozen, at least of objects which you do not want to cut into fractions.
Donnie

Yes.

But don't be confused: "overrated" doesn't mean it shouldn't still be rated highly. My '51' is my favorite writer. I still take the effluvia of the "'51' Faithful" with a grain of salt. Why? Because enthusiasts enthuse. I think we can all relate to that.

Whatever you guys....

I just think that if you set the bar for a fountain pen experience at the level of a Parker 51, you miss out on a ton of better pens. I would venture to say that you have not set the bar very high.

The way everyone raves about them, you would think they were the best thing since sliced bread....

I won't even try to disagree that the styling, construction, durability, ageless design, and popularity is head of the class on many levels. I accept a lot of those aspects of the pen.

I have had tons of 51's, never have I had one that I could not get rid of, easily. They don't do anything for me. I have had some that were great writers, but it's kind of like following the herd, in my mind.

I find t51's have a slightly too small diameter, not a comfortable grip, and I feel the vacumatic style filling system is too complicated, problematic, but the aerometric system makes up for that, at least.....

Doesn't anyone else think they are all just sorta the same? silver, metal, or gold caps, no marbled celluloid, flat colors, ugly colors (I mean, seriously, mustard, and Nassau, are UGLY) and those grays.... I love the way the pencils are mostly green, and the lind caps never match the rest of the pen.... what's that all about?

I feel bad that there are those out there that won' ever know what a great pen a Leboeuf, a Chilton, a Carter's, a Conklin, or even some Wahl's are. (left some others out...) I started out with 51's, and feel that I grew out of the 51 stage of my life.

I personally feel glad they are overrated, I mean, every time I find one, I smile, thinking that here's another pen that I can sell to one of those 51 nuts.

Oh well, to each their own. This really comes down to a debate of Coke versus Pepsi, anyway. no one is truly right.

But Richard does have a nice spread of em there. I ask this... what do you like more, your Golden Quill, or any one of those 51's? (now that's a pen...)

IMHO the P51 is not overrated, the product life span of 31 years coupled with production into the millions speaks volumes about its success.
My first vintage fountain pen was a P51, this enlightened me to the world of vintage fountain pens, at first I only collected P51s, then only sheaffer, then mont blanc.
I have now gone full circle and focus on P51s again.

I use two on a daily basis - one has a fine nib, the other has a stub nib, they are very different pens to write with.

I consider the P51 to be a "classic" design such as the VW beetle.

I agree with Jim. I am a Parker "51" fan and suppose I always will be. All of my "51"s have been found in the "wild" and with a little clean up in the ultrasonic cleaner they all write very well. I can depend on my "51" to write every time I pick it up to use it. I also love the looks of this pen and how it feels in my hand. However, I know someone in my family...namely my hubby, who is not a fan and I have aquired most of his "51"s. He says they are a nail, no flex. You can tell we have many "discussions" over which pen is the best. I've given up trying to persuade him and he pretty much has given up on persuading me.

Personally, I think which fountain pen you like to use is *personal* taste. However, I think those of us who love the "51" have *excellent* taste!

I agree that the 51 is not over-rated. It's a great pen. I tend to go with the Vacumatics for eye-appeal (my personal taste), but for all around use and durability, the 51 is just a true workhorse (and a pretty one at that!).

Absolutely not overrated.

Admittedly I am biased, I used my mother's old P51 as my main writing instrument all the way through secondary school and university and have written all of my exams with it. There really is no other pen on the planet that I can write better or more quickly with. Biros I find slow, scratchy and exhausting due to the angle I hold a pen at, the pressure that is required and the lack of "glide". I have a very nice green striped Pelikan souverain M400 fountain pen (the best of many, many other FPs I have owned) which is a joy to write with, but not at any pace... the flex in the nib imposes a speed limit, so I trip over the words if I try to write quickly with it. The P51 is incredibly robust and practical. I learned about the way they are put together by repeatedly taking mine apart as a bored teenager in overly long maths lessons, and that pen still writes perfectly! As far as flow and smoothness goes, I figured out by trial and error that these things are adjustable in a good P51. If the pen was dry I would just stick a pin between the tines and tease them apart a bit, and if it was too wet I would cross the tines over to make them a bit tighter and then bend them back into alignment by pressing sideways on the top of the desk...

I think the nib is critically important to the way a P51 writes. I must admit I don't like the narrow American ones and only really get on with the English mediums (equivalent to U.S. broad?). Personally I don't go for stub nibs either, I like a good rounded point as it is more practical. The way these pens write must have a lot to do with the tubular nib design. There is no other pen that writes the same way for this reason, and I guess you either like it or don't like it (although I don't understand how anyone couldn't like it for the purposes of practical writing!). So to say it's overrated next to other pens is a bit like saying a screwdriver is overrated next to kitchen knife, it just doesn't make sense.

The best thing said here so far-- Chacun à son goût. So far my only '51' experience has been with a Special, from which one of the nibs has dropped off and which resists my gentle efforts to dismantle for point replacement, and a medium-point desk pen which appears in perfect working order. It writes... well. It is reliable. I can keep it out of its holder for and hour at a time while making only infrequent marks, and it seems to not care.

But it's not a lot of fun to write with. I am in the camp that likes some flex, and I'm not, I discover, a huge fan of the hooded nib look. Those who are delierious over the '51' I somewhat envy, as I don't understand what I'm missing. Overrated is in the eye of the beholder, and most of our pen-lovin' criteria are highly subjective.

On the other hand, I've got three more (twin-desk set and a regular with pencil) on their way. I am giving it the good old college try.

Exact same pen with a few changes. Sort of like what Pelikan does with their pens: different color & differnt caps


K

Yes but how long has the Bic Stick been in constant production ( with no signs of stopping )

The 51 is a pen that writes with amazing regularity has a nib that can go through carbons.

K

Ah, Rick, that's definitely a question to ponder. I'm not sure there's a meaningful answer, because I like my GQ for certain reasons and my "51"s for other reasons.

Sign up another vote for the "overrated but still excellent camp". I thought the 51 was boring at first but I've come to appreciate its practicality: it's the least distracting pen I own. This sounds like faint praise, but it isn't. When I really want to concentrate, I use a 51.

And there's why it's such a great pen. Any skilled worker will tell you that a tool should be as transparent as possible, i.e., that it should interpose itself between the worker and the work as little as possible. The perfect tool does its job without ever being noticed; it becomes an extension of the worker's mind and body. We who are pen collectors enjoy our pens because they're pens, but back in the day that wasn't the point. The purpose of a pen was to write, not to be enjoyed for its own sake, and the "51" fits that job description better than any other pen I've ever handled. I own THE "51" because I like its looks, but I wouldn't carry it day in and day out were it not as reliable as the sunrise. It never balks, it never quits, it never horks up any ink, it never catches on the paper, it never does anything except write when and where I want it to.

The "51", especially the aerometric, is the greatest fountain pen ever made.
Just my opinion based on sales figures and heaps of praise from experienced fountain pen users.
Looks are subjective. Function isn't.

I've been using a PFM for several days here, and my opinion is it's got the 51 by miles...

looks, performance, style....

sales figures doesn't a great pen make....

I find that "experienced" fountain pen collectors often are past the 51 stage, often finding other pens that were greatly overlooked and not appreciated.

This argument can go forever as to what the greatest pen ever made is, whether the 51 is overrated, etc....

I think even those that recognize the 51 for what it is, won't argue that it sold millions, was around for a long time, is dependable, functional, well designed, but honestly, what else does it have? It is overrated, in my opinion, when you stack up all the other pens available.

I would say that everyone that gets into using or collecting vintage should have one, or try one, but don't make that your one and only stop. you will never get the whole experience of vintage pens if you do.

Anyone out there like RC cola?????

Splicer-
Well put & ditto.
JJ

Exactly Richard. The 51 is a wonderful example of the "form follows function" addage. Everything about it is designed to make it reliable.
Look at the sack alone on the aerometrics. coming up on 60 years old for the first years and MOST of the ones I encounter-- the sacs are fine and usable.

Strangely enough, despite my general hatred of biros I actually find the bic stick the easiest of all of them to write with and would vote for it as the best biro ever made. Really. All of the others do the same job less well with more superfluous flash. And most of them don't also double as magnetic cassette tape rewinders. The disposability of the bic suits its niche as much as the durability of the P51 is part of its perfection.

"experienced fountain pen collectors"..... well, you could be right, I'm not one of those and have no real ambition to be. I just use FPs on a daily basis, and being in that minority is the main (if not sole) source of my interest in them. If you can name a pen that has the same feel as a P51, is as durable and as easily available then I'm all ears...

Maybe that's the point, a 51 is a plain vanilla workhorse pen but everything that it can do can be done by a pencil or ballpoint pen

K

Not so. Out of the gate, a ballpoint enforces three major mistakes in writing.

1. It requires you to hold it at an unnaturally high elevation off the paper to avoid scraping the paper with the swaged part of the tip that secures the ball in place. You have to hold your hand in a position that is less naturally restful, and this causes stress and fatigue. (Pencils do not have this fault.)
2. It requires friction to operate, therefore requiring that you press more firmly than you should have to press. This leads to fatigue -- and, in order to press more firmly you need to grip more firmly, leading to further fatigue. (Pencils have this fault.)
3. The tighter grip naturally encourages finger writing instead of wrist or shoulder writing. This works small muscles that are already cramped from gripping the pen, further fatiguing them, instead of working large muscles with greater energy reserves. (Pencils have this fault.)

A fountain pen requires zero writing pressure and therefore virtually zero gripping force, and it lies naturally in a hand that is in a relaxed position. These significant advantages may have something to do with the fact that physicians are increasingly prescribing fountain pens for their patients who suffer from arthritis, CTS, or RSI. I understand that you don't suffer from any of these problems, but there's nothing to prevent your benefiting from the use of the same superior writing instrument.

Just to add to Richard's points, I also think that the tubular hooded 14K nib of the P51 genuinely sets it apart from most other FPs and makes it more suitable as a practical writing instrument, although obviously at the expense of the qualities that many pen aficionados want in a pen that is used in a less practical context. It makes the nib less flexible and more suitable for fast writing although it retains just enough flex to provide tactile feedback. Also, the hood allows you to hold the pen as far down towards the nib as you want. Thinking about this just now, I realise it's not so much that I would normally need to hold a pen lower down than the grip on most conventional FPs, more that in everyday use when I am constantly picking up the pen and putting it down again, absent mindedly fiddling with it while thinking about what I'm writing etc, it is easier and more natural not to have an exposed nib to worry about. When I pick up a P51 I don't have to think about where I put my fingers; however I pick it up it instantly fits into the correct writing position as my middle finger locates the right place on the hood.

I think many of the points that are being made in favour of the P51 being overrated might possibly apply if it happened to be /only/ a very capable, durable conventional fountain pen. It's not though; the nib and hood design clearly set it apart and in a way that provides positive benefits for everyday writing. It's a measure of the pen's success that some pen collectors today find its aesthetics "boring" and prefer the look of a conventional pen, while in its day the sleek lines of the P51 were hugely appealing to most people.

The other advantage (not exclusive to the 51) is its slip on cap. You can pretty much take off the cap one handed, so it's very fast on the draw, so to speak.
And refilling an aero iis very fast too. Superb pen.

Although the ballpoint has evolved to be just as easy to write with as a fountain pen (I'm talking about wet rollerballs, essentially the same thing), it lacks character.

I'm also joining in with the cheering section for the Parker 51. Richard nailed it, as I expected he would. It is not an overtly glamorous looking pen, compared to some others (like Italian celluloid pens), but that's because its beauty lies in its subtlety.

I'll bet most people who don't like them have experienced one or more of the following: 1) A pen in the wild that needs attention, 2) A workable but rough example that pales next to a mint NOS copy, 3) The pen is a little too large for their smallish hands, despite the fact that the Parker 51 is designed to suit a very broad range of hand sizes, 4) A desire for a nice thick broad or italic nib, but cannot find one in a Parker 51 due to the scarcity, and 5) A realization that many millions of these pens were made, probably more than any other pen, so it's not as unique as some may desire.

Once you use a well tuned and great condition Parker 51, you'd be hard pressed to refuse having one in your collection.

I agree with Richard Binder 100%.
I had surgery on my right hand. I have a very hard time writing with ball points and pencils. I now can write all day with a Fountain pen with no fatigue. The pen just glides across the paper with no effort at all.

Shawn

yes that is a list of reason's why a person might not like a 51. Good information for why I've not found one yet.


K

You are correct, sir. The response you quote was written only to counter your argument that a ballpoint or a pencil can do everything the "51" can do.

I think a point on which we will all agree, perhaps the only one in regard to the "51", is that there is no one pen that will do all things for everybody. It's okay to disagree -- that's what makes a horse race.
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No, actually it's a jockey that makes a horse race, but anyway...

The original question was "Replying to Parker 51 - Is It Overrated As A Writing Instrument?"

"Is it overrated as a writing instrument?"

I have yet to see any testimony or evidence that the "51" is not a high quality writing instrument that works consistently when you try to use it.

You can argue about color or filling system or diameter or weight, but it is definitely a high quality writing instrument.

And don't you love it when the Administrators get belligerent?

Overrated by whom? The "51" is a pen, for crying out loud. It's not a cure for cancer and male pattern baldness. It would be overrated as a pool cue. As a pen, it's reliable (if properly maintained), functional (it does what it's supposed to do), well-made (lasts for years, even with moderate abuse), and it isn't ugly (some even find the minimalist design attractive). I have two of them (plus a Hero 100 and a couple of other clones) and I enjoy using them. I agree that some descriptions of the "51" verge on hyperbole, but that doesn't make the pen "overrated."

I though we were having a discussion on whether a Parker 51 is an overrated writing instrument, never thought it got argumentative?


But let me answer the last line by saying that you have not seen me get belligerent on this site.


K

So this is an example "having a discussion"?

You weren't stating alternate opinions or experiences, you were attacking the other posters opinions!

And you are an Administrator.

If you want to talk about a pen; fact, opinion, or impression, do so, but why cut other Posters opinions/posts?

Glen,
yes this is part of a discussion. I guess you are saying that no one can question that a post that is presented as all facts when it is more of opinions. Or you can't disagree with another person's opinion or post. That's what having a discussion is all about! I could have gone line by line with the other person's post ( actually I initially did but then I decided it would be easier to write a single line instead)

What I said was my opinion of what was written that I responded to was another person's opinion. So you forbid people to have different opinions?

Maybe it is that I have an opinion different than yours on the Parker 51 that makes you single me out for this attack? I have been discussing the pen while you went right for the jugular of me. So maybe you are the belligerent one attacking me as a person.

K

I have said nothing about you as a person or of your opinions or statements about any pen at all.

I question your attitude and methods since you are an Administrator who should be the most tolerant of other people's opinions and positions.

Wandering in extremely late to this discussion, but the main point is whether we consider our fountain pens tools or toys.

By toy, I mean an expensive item that's meant more as pocket jewelry than a writing instrument.

By tool, I mean something that gets used every day and is expected to work flawlessly virtually every time you use it.

Pens such as the Esterbrook J, the Sheaffer Balance/Triumph and the Parker "51" are tools. For me, they're comfortable in the hand, suit my writing style (or lack thereof) and are utterly reliable.

Yes, there are pens that are more beautiful and stylish and showy. Yes, there are pens that have flexier nibs. But the aforementioned three pen lines are the ones I keep using every day. All were built during the era when fountain pens were tools, not toys. All are well-designed and still doing the jobs they were crafted for six decades ago.

And judging by how fast good examples of these three pen lines get snapped up on the board, many agree with this assessment.

I'm not going to quote anybody's comments here, but I will state that IMHO it is categorically unfair to take another individual to task for expressing an opinion in strong words, just because he happens to be an administrator.

Administrators have just as much right to express their opinions as anyone else; the only time they should come in for chastisement is when they use their administrative powers to interfere with a discussion in which they are participating.

i am not a 51 fan myself, but i do understand passion for a particular pen. since we all have different tastes, pen manufacturers try pleasing us by making so many different pens.

i like to see my nib--so i don't like hoods.

i am a fan of parker televisors--canadian parkers.

i think the question should be: why are you parker 51 fans so enthusiastic about your pen?
this way we can get away from words like "overrated. "

Another one wading in very late to the conversation. Let's all try to remember that we're talking about just a pens, as Bill so wonderfully reminded all of us earlier, and not a cure for cancer or something of similar import.

Now to the question at hand. Is the "51" a good writing instrument? Yes. Is it reliable? Yes. I've had roughly a half dozen or so and all worked wonderfully and seemed to never dry out. The last one I had would sit for months untouched and write immediately when the nib hit the paper!

All that being said, I don't have one. Why? I like to see a big nib on my pens, and hooded nibs just put me off. Nothing personal. Actually, it is personal, but it's my personal taste. Purely subjective. Nothing against "51" fans, and I trust they have nothing against me.

Let's keep it in perspective, please!

Logically this could be indicative of many different things, including (but not restricted to) the 51 being overrated, it being genuinely a superior pen and thus having qualities that enthuse its appreciators, or it being a "niche" pen that, compared to others, has unique features that tend polarize opinion. It's certainly not evidence in itself of the 51 being overrated!



Imitators aside, it is the only pen with a hooded tubular nib (I'm sure I will be corrected by someone more knowledgeable if I am wrong). Perhaps this gives it attributes that either add to or detract from its other qualities as a "good pen" depending on taste and/or intended use. Hence the polarization of opinion leading to either "overrating" or well-deserved praise depending on which side of the fence you are on. Other pens that lack such unique functional attributes will be less controversial.

re: expressing opinions in strong words - of course everyone, administrators included, should be allowed to do this! That's what the fun is all about! As someone else said it's only a pen after all; if we can have good-natured arguments about this without people claiming to be "offended" and expecting to have a right not to be, then there's no hope for protection of freedom of expression when it comes to things like religion and politics!!

You can't judge the style and looks of a 51 by 2007 standards. They put the pen out in 1941 and it was a bit radical back then, and a hit. However since other companies kept on making other pens obviously not everybody in the world liked the pen, that was true in 1941 and is true in 2007.

Richard is correct about zero pressure, everybody continues to bear down on a pen like it's a ballpoint. Fountain pens require no pressure, quit engraving the paper. That's also a hood on the 51 not a gripping section, you'll never see a Parker ad for a 51 with anybody holding the pen by the hood (it ain't a ballpoint!). Relax that hand, straighten out those fingers, hold the pen above the ring just like Parker wanted you to and you'll get a lot more enjoyment from the 51 or any other fountain pen that's vintage. I say vintage (meaning more or less pre-BP) because the makers of modern pens are aware that the vast majority of their customers grew up with BP's and the BP Death Grip on the "section" and hold the pen almost vertical so they advertise "gripping sections" and they generally make stiff nibs for the paper engravers, and they put this horrible blob of a tip on the pen so you can hold it straight up. I can't blame I just don't like it, they encourage the continuation of the BP death grip. Your opinion may vary but I had my first fountain pen in 1951 and I've watched this evolution, which I suppose makes sense from a modern pen makers viewpoint.

Remember, no matter what they tell you Rock and Roll is here to stay.

Re tiff: I think belligerence is too strong , but I sensed a taunting quality to the administrator's posts which is
more surprising when it comes from an administrator. (not judging whether or not that is the admin's right of course)

I LOVE RC cola!! I also love my 51, and the two Heros I have (a 100 & a 616). The 51 is much older than either, and a better made pen, but the copies are still very good. I almost always try an underdog, or underrated product, rather than going with the majority. I have Washburn guitars, Johnson guitars, a low end Alvarez, and one Yamaha, which is the closest thing I have to an industry leader. I also have several "underdog" pens, like the Walitys and the Reform pens, besides the Pilots, Sailors, Pelikans, and a few Sheaffers.
Donnie