Hello!

I'm new both to fountain pens and the forum! I wish to draw upon the startlingly huge fountain of knowledge (heard that before?) that is FPN and its user base.

I am in a dilemma! There are too many brands out there, too many pens, and not any local sources to buy from in the back o' beyond in NE Scotland.

I got hooked on fountain pens very recently when I came across an old and very cheap German fountain pen in a drawer. Tried it, and I love the smoothness and ease that one can write with using a fountain pen. Only problem is this plastic pen is far too broad-nibbed for me, having very small handwriting and preferring the crisp, thin characters one can achieve with a fine point ball-pen or mechanical pencil.

So, I am looking for a nice pen with preferably the following specifications:

1) Fine or extra fine nib
2) Durable and suitable to carry in a pocket
3) Costs under £15-£20 (I think that's around $40?). I do not want to spend too much for an introductory pen.
4) Writes a little on the dry side - I intend to use it with a Moleskine notebook, I hear the drier the pen the better for them (but this is not essential).
5) Writes easily and suitable for writing at great length.
6) It can be bought from the internet (in the UK only, preferably)

Sorry for this rather prolixious post... but it can be very bewildering when confronted with oh so many choices and oh so little experience!

Thank you very much for reading,
Patrick.

Hello, Patrick.

My own experience in different fountain pen brands is rather limited, so what I give you may or may not be worth anything.

I would recommend a Sheaffer School fountain pen. When I was starting with fountain pens about 15 years ago, that was the first real fountain pen that I ever got. It's durable and idiotproof. They are -

- Fine nibbed.
- Durable and may be carried in a pocket or a pencil-case etc etc...with no consequences.
- Cheap (I believe. It's been a while since I bought one. The prices may have changed in the last 10+ years).
- Not sure about that. I do know that my Sheaffer School fountain pen had SIGNIFICANT nib-creep, but that did not, in anyway, destroy it's use or value as a good writing instrument.
- The Sheaffer school pen was designed for use by children & teenagers. That means it has to be VERY easy to use, very durable and very long-lasting. You can rest assured that you will have no problems with these pens, and that they will be good long-run writers.
- Last time I checked, Sheaffer School fountain pens could be bought on the 'net, but that might have changed as well.

EDIT:

In case you have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, THIS, is a Sheaffer School fountain pen:



I had one JUST like it when I was in school, and they are tough, durable, strong, hardy, all of that...and also very good beginner writers. Because they're for the school-market, they're also rather cheap. My SS fountain pen was red.

Part of whether you will like a pen has to do with functional stuff -- how well it writes and how reliable it is, etc., and part has to do with subjective stuff. Lamy Safari/Vista/Al-Stars in their numerous colors are very functional, and for me, they satisfy the other part too. Between $20 to $30 and another $5 for converter.

Here's my Vista (with fine nib):



And Here's my Al-Star (graphite) with Extra Fine nib:



They both have stiffish nibs but write wonderfully, and are rugged and reliable. But you should try one out first if you can. If you don't like them, then that's that. For me, I could use either as my only pen without a problem.

Doug

I would recommend "Waterman Phileas".

You can get this pen for under 40$.
It is a great writer and is very reliable and comfortable.

Patrick,

Good place to buy pens online is the eBay Store of this seller, http://stores.ebay.co.uk/id=38158830&s...STRK:MEFS:MESST

I have bought from him many times, as have others on FPN and he has a good reputation. You could look at a Parker 45 if he has any on offer, but he sells Waterman too, so you would find a deal on the Phileas. Lamy is stocked by WHSmith if you have a branch near you, or you could try this site http://www.thewritingdesk.co.uk/index.html, pens inks, the whole shooting match. Martin is a member here again and is full of wonderful advice to get you to buy bigger and better

Jim

The Pilot Prera is a great pen. It seems to be just around your price range, and I believe there are a few Japanese eBay sellers that ship quickly worldwide and usually have quite a few available.

I have an Ivory one with a fine nib and I like mine very much! It really is lovely and incredibly comfortable to write with. There is actually a review right here on FPN: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...59&hl=prera

(No matter which you end up choosing, I hope you thoroughly enjoy it!!)

I'm going to suggest a second thought about that sheaffer in the first response. I'm a big fan of their low-priced stuff, but the example of that I got tends to bark out ink when touched to page. Lamy and Waterman suggestions I endorse also, and the Sheaffer Javelin is pretty good too (although it relies on cartridges). The Ebay chap is brilliant, too, and a source of the Rotring Skynn which is also available here for about 10 pound; funny-looking, but comfortable and a good writer.

Hi,
I have a standard answer for all pen dilemmas.  Because there is but one answer for all pen dilemmas.

Parker 51.  There are many Parker 51s, including some fine user grade 51s that are in the price range you cite...

Bill Wright on the other side of the pond...

Another vintage option are Esterbrooks. A J, SJ or LJ (depending on the size pen you'd like) with either a 9556 (Fine) or 9550 (XF) nib would run <$30 in the FPN's marketplace.

Ah, thank you for the suggestion - this one looks quite promising, though I have not heard of Sheaffer pens before.

And thank you HDoug for the suggestion of the Lamy brand - I have heard good things respecting them (and I also appreciate that you took the time to show off your Apple laptop in one of your photos ! ) They all look very nice and usable pens for an 'FPer' of any age or ability.

And also, I have heard of Waterman, I believe, the online dealer I buy some of my older Parker ballpoints from is a Waterman/Parker distributor, but unfortunately he doesn't stock many fountain pens and doesn't have the Waterman Phileas. So I'll have a look around for that one (or at the French eBay seller the next poster suggested - thank you for that!).

I have enjoyed using some of the lower end Parker ball-points (Jotter, Vecor etc.) and even at that level I believe Parker is a quality manufacturer, so Parker is always feasible in my opinion.

Thank you all for your suggestions - but do keep them coming! No matter how many recommendations I receive it still narrows down the choice of pens I was facing merely a few moments ago! You see, I'm in no hurry and am perfectly willing to research the pens suggested by searching this forum and elsewhere. You have all given me several nice starting points.

Thanks again,
Patrick

EDIT: Oh, one question. The finer the point on a fountain pen (like extra fine), does it take more pressure to write than with medium or standard fine or all types of nib relatively the same to use regarding necessary writing pressure?

I second the recommendation of the Lamy Safari or Vista (I've never used an All-Star, so I can't comment). They are superb pens.

Sheaffer School Pens are also nice, very reliable, and you can't beat the price (less than half the price of a Lamy Safari). The ones that I own have fine nibs. One drawback is that they are small, so if you have large hands they are probably not the pen for you. I also seem to recall that they write a bit wetter than the Lamy pens, but my recollection could be wrong on this point. As someone else has pointed out, they also develop nib creep, but this should not effect their performance.

HI I will agree that the Phileas Fine point, which is a generous fine point, is a good choice because they usually write very smoothly out of the box. I am sure a few people here and there have gotten a bum Phileas out of the box, but generally they are very smooth.

As for fine points, you do not need to press down harder with a fine point than with a medium point. In fact, you should not have to press down hard at all with a fountain pen. If you do press down hard, the tines of the nib will spread and few bad things can happen. If you press too hard, the tines may spread and not spring back together. With most modern nibs you would really have to use some force to do this. If you press hard and the tines spread on an XF nib, the points of the nib where the tipping material is may catch on the paper. In an XF nib, the material on the tip of the tines is pretty small, so if you press hard and the paper is so-so, those tips may dig into the paper. If you then twise your wrist at an angle or write large swooping letters while pressing hard, the pen will probably feel scratchy.

Others may explain this better or correct me. I am no expert, but I think I have the main idea.

I think another reason the Phileas is a good choice is that the nib is very stiff. It sure does not feel like you are painting with a soft brush, but it will likely to smooth even if you use a little more pressure than necessary.

You might want to experiment with paper too. I do not know moleskin, but I have used Clairefontaine and I found that on their journal paper a pen appears to write a slightly thinner line that it will appear to write on photocopy paper. So maybe a Fine phileas on a CF journal will be what you want. Others can comment on moleskin and whether it encourages feathering (the ink line bleeding out and looking fatter than normal and with a fuzzy outer perimeter).
j

1. Yes, very reliable.
2. See? I told you they were cheap.
3. Yes, I forgot about the size! I'm a rather small person (5'6" in the Imperial), and as such, my hands aren't as big as other peoples'. From my memory, the Sheaffer School fountain pen is about 5.5-6.5 inches long. That fits perfectly into my hand, but if your hands are larger, Patrick, then you might have problems.
4. Yes, they do write rather wet. Perhaps buy a blotter as well?
5. That someone was me. Nib-creep (ink appearing over the metallic nib-surface), seems to be endemic with Sheaffer School fountain pens, but this does not mean that they're bad writers...they just have runny noses.

With this kind of budget, I don't think you can do better than a Parker Frontier.

Ray

Where exactly in NE Scotland do you live?

I have a number of Lamy Safaris. If you want to borrow one you would be more than welcome. They all have a medium nib.

Personally, I hate Lamy Safaris - I find their nib feel to be unpleasant. Others disagree, so that might be a choice.

Parker Frontiers seem to be great value for the money. One of the smoothest nibs at any price, and cheap to boot. The trouble is, same as with the Lamy, they tend to run a bit big, and you're looking for something fine.

Maybe a Pilot 78G? It's a bit of a wet writer, though. They're available cheap on the 'net. Wality also makes a decent pen, but sort-of wet (just the way I like 'em). With the right ink, though, they don't tend to bleed in Moleskine.

I like the Esterbrook suggestion above.

There is certainly nothing special about the Lamy's. They just work, but you wont get excited over one!

I'm usually a Med nib person, but have a few F, XF pens I really like. With the older, no longer in production pens it's often hard to get the nib you want as the seller (like on ebay) may not know or describe properly.
Great Fine writers I know about --
No longer in production ---
I have Parker "51"s and Sheaffer snorkel, Stateman style pens in F-XF that are perfect for journal writing, got them by accident.
A Parker 45 with a Fine, X, A (Accountant) nib is also a great writer. Most of these nibs are marked so you can tell. If unmarked, my experience is they are M.

Current pens ---
The Pilot 78G in a F I just got from www.isellpens.com seems a great, narrow writer. They have ended production so are selling out, but should be around.
Waterman Phileas is a nice pen, tho' a bit heavy for me as I have small hands.
Hero pens have F nibs and are cheap. Ones to look at are models, 616, 58M, 200A (very nice), 110 (very nice), 800 if you want a Med nib, and for a XXF, try the Hero Accountant, 237-1 ... I find it ugly but a great F writer!
Have bought Heros from www.isellpens.com www.hisnibs.com and www.cutepens.com They sell different pens and shipping can be different. cutepens often has a deal where you can get three Hero 616 for $20+ shipping. You have to email and ask.

Suggest you set a limit on the amount you are willing to spend and then see if with shipping, you can get 2-3-4 pens.

If you buy vintage, go with a seller you trust, someone who might take it back if it does not suit you. You can easily buy a vintage pen and then find you need to put fifty bucks into it. Sure, every now and then someone buys a cool Esterbrook and Sheaffer on ebay for twenty bucks and it writes like a charm and is better than any 300 dollar pen they have. It can happen. But you can just as easily end up with a piece of junk.

At least with a modern pen, many places will do an exchange if there is a problem and many offer warranty service. Warranty service and nib swapping may or may not cost, but at least they have the parts.

For vintage, I'd recommend buying here in the Marketplace forum. FPN members are quite trustworthy.

I'm sorry that two of the previous posters don't see much to like about Lamy's. I love my Lamy!

Obviously, I'm going to recommend a Lamy to you, as well. Smooth nib, sturdy design... just a good knock around pen you can take anywhere. The only thing I have against the Safari line is that they're not the prettiest pens... actually, they're pretty ugly, in my opinion. That's why I ended up forking over an extra $25 to get the Lamy Studio: same nib, much better looking barrel.

I have a cheap Sheaffer and an old Parker Vector. Don't know how they hold up against the same brand pens in the same price bracket, but I DO have to say that the Vector is pretty smooth for such a cheap pen. I would imagine that the Frontier would be as smooth, if not smoother.

People have different techniques, but what I have found is that finer nibs require a lighter touch, else they start "digging in" and scratching. One thing I like about fountain pens is that they encourage a very relaxed sort of focus, kind of like Tai Chi, or the kind of walking meditation Buddhists call kin hin.

Doug

I agree with fellow posters on theLamy Safari, it's a great pen and the nibs are interchangeable, so you can even try an XF if the F is too wide for you. If you feel that this pen maybe a bit too bulky for your taste what about a Lamy Logo? Bureau Direct are selling the stainless steel version post free to Uk address at £16.50. They have the same nib as the Safari and are also easily changeable. Hope this helps.... and welcome to the addicition!

Lesley

I have spotted this seller: thanks for pointing out that he's worth investigating!

Actually, I'm in a similar position to Patrick1314: a student on a budget and after F/EF pens. I have a couple by Inoxcrom and they're quite good. One has a particularly fine nib (though it doesn't say exactly which width) and is quite firm. I buy them at a local shop in the South of Scotland, and I don't know how easily available they are otherwise. The one I use a lot was about £15: probably within your budget.

I add another vote to both the P51 (I have 2 and both cost approx 20 pounds) or a lamy safari (had one, lost it, miss it).