Splicer
May 9 2007, 08:58 PM
Yeah, this topic has been beaten to death already, but I just sent email to Moda & Moda begging them to do something about the quality of their paper. I take it as a personal insult that they make such wonderful notebooks that are such terrible notebooks. It's as though they're telling us we'll love whatever crap they produce as long as they put a high price tag and a ribbon on it. I know I shouldn't take it personally; they wouldn't be the first company to sell us pigs with lipstick.
Yes, I've tried Noodlers inks... those feather just like everything else. I suspect the paper is just so inconsistent that there's no telling whether you'll get halfway decent paper or not. The formula has definitely changed in the past couple of years... the odor of newer Moleskines is distinctly different from the older variety.
If only Clairefontaine or Miquelrius would buy Moda & Moda and force some good paper on them. I don't buy the argument that they have to hold to tradition regarding the paper; how do they explain the Volants and Cahiers and now the City notebooks with full-color maps and plasticky tracing paper? I'm pretty sure that Van Gogh didn't have one of those.
In the meantime, I'm searching for alternatives.
Samovar
May 9 2007, 09:49 PM
Hi Splicer,
I've tried a lot of pen and ink with my Moleskine and I found a few that works:
Lamy 2000 EF and Lamy blue/black
Hero 100 and Noodlers black
Pilot Capless and Pilot black
Pelikan Steno XXF with Binder Blurple
Danitrio Densho EF with Noodlers black
Pilot Birdie with Pilot Black
I would suggest Apica notebook, it's just an amazing notebook.
Samovar
Brianetta
May 9 2007, 10:11 PM
My Moleskine hardly feathers at all with black Quink. Unfortunately, it does something worse - bleeds through to the other side of the page.
exit here
May 9 2007, 10:44 PM
Do I throw out my Moleskines or my pens ...I am a newbie and already looking for a gridded alternative to the Cahiers ...I wonder if I can take these pads back the reseller because clearly they are not 'fit for purpose'.
The beaten to death is not altogether true as any discussion of moleskine has become one of alternatives ...and the names of lesser known products are becoming more known.
BillTheEditor
May 9 2007, 11:04 PM
QUOTE(exit here @ May 9 2007, 05:44 PM) [snapback]289349[/snapback]
Do I throw out my Moleskines or my pens ...I am a newbie and already looking for a gridded alternative to the Cahiers ...I wonder if I can take these pads back the reseller because clearly they are not 'fit for purpose'.
The beaten to death is not altogether true as any discussion of moleskine has become one of alternatives ...and the names of lesser known products are becoming more known.
In your Moleskine, you should find/have found a slip of paper inviting you to email Modo & Modo with any QA comments. Why not email them and tell them you want a refund? That would be Plan B if the retailer isn't cooperative.
Splicer
May 9 2007, 11:22 PM
I've only tried Noodler's, Private Reserve, and Aurora inks in them with various results. I was particularly disappointed after reading how Noodler's is specially formulated to never feather. Look at the third photo here:
http://splicer.com/2007/05/03/mark-of-the-moleskinethat shows Private Reserve Black from my 51 and Noodler's Hunter Green from my Rotring Initial. Obviously the pens have something to do with it as well as the inks. The Rotring is a wetter writer than the Parker.
I haven't had too much trouble with bleed-through per se, but the paper is transparent enough that it may as well bleed through. I can see what's written not just on the next sheet but on the sheet after that! so turning the page over even when not bled through, of course I can see clearly what's on the other side.
Splicer
May 9 2007, 11:34 PM
QUOTE(Samovar @ May 9 2007, 02:49 PM) [snapback]289321[/snapback]
I would suggest Apica notebook, it's just an amazing notebook.
Thanks. Yes, I have an Apica and I like it very much. However it does not have the «bonus features» of the Moleskine. With the folder in the back of the Moleskine it can double as a wallet. I like the band closure and the stiff oilskin cover helps if I'm writing in my lap instead of at a desk or table. I've never used a bookmark in my notebooks but for some reason I like the fact that they are there for me in the Moleskine. I like the color of the paper and the 6mm ruling.
...but the quality of the paper is a dealbreaker. How can they get everything so right and the one critical element so wrong? I feel like I've sat in a Rolls-Royce, admired all the appointments, luxuriated in the comfort of the seat only to find that there's no motor. But I'm welcome to get out and push!
Tricia
May 10 2007, 12:24 AM
It must vary from batch to batch or something because the ones I have do very little (as in almost none) feathering. Since I'm an ink junkie, I tend to switch off paragraph by paragraph, or at least entry by entry, so I've tried a lot of inks! (The pens vary, too, obviously.) Even my Monteverde fountain pen ink rollerball works splendidly in my Moleskine (while skipping on pretty much everything else).
I do get some show-through, but only once or twice did I get actual bleed-through and that was more my fault (holding the pen too long in one place) than the paper's. I did notice that, surprisingly, Noodler's Highland Heather (in that case with a dip pen) had more show-through than almost all the other inks I've used. I say surprisingly because the ink itself is not very dark.
(The 'almost' in my first sentence refers to PR's Chocolat in a very wet writing Cross Century (not a II). I do get spider-veins (the very tiny ones) with that ink/pen combo.)
I agree about the nice extras with the Moleskine. There are quite a few fairly decent knockoffs out there now, though most are made in China, I believe. However, I do believe that Rhodia has just introduced a new Moleskine-esque journal that you might want to check out.
Edited to note that it's not Rhodia but MiquelRius that has the Moleskine-esque notebook.
lefty928
May 10 2007, 12:46 AM
I agree that the variation in paper quality is frustrating -- what one ends up with seems to be luck of the draw. I have gridded and lined Moleskines from several years back that have very smooth paper -- the paper in my most recent pocket Moleskine, gridded, is much rougher. It's not feathering so far, though. I tend to stick with EF nibs to minimize showthrough, so that may help. The proportions, hard covers (in unobstrusive black) and fact that they lie flat make me keep buying them, grrr.
By the way, I've always been amazed by the number of manufacturers that make blank notebooks that have pretty covers and awful paper inside. Seems backwards. And to make matters worse, some of them shrinkwrap them so you can't tell what the inside pages are like (I just Pass Those By). Unfortunately, even some seemingly smooth papers feather horribly.
Brerarnold
May 10 2007, 02:02 AM
QUOTE(Tricia @ May 10 2007, 12:24 AM) [snapback]289415[/snapback]
It must vary from batch to batch or something because the ones I have do very little (as in almost none) feathering. Since I'm an ink junkie, I tend to switch off paragraph by paragraph, or at least entry by entry, so I've tried a lot of inks! (The pens vary, too, obviously.) Even my Monteverde fountain pen ink rollerball works splendidly in my Moleskine (while skipping on pretty much everything else).
I agree. They must get their paper from different places at different times. I have not had a problem with any pen/ink combination so far. I don't get feathering, bleed-through or show through with any of them. I guess I have been lucky, not in what I've used, but in the paper they've used.
markc
May 11 2007, 01:36 AM
Hey Splicer! Great to see you here.. (At least other then Stylo)

I read your post on your blog and decided to try my little stash of Moleskine pads. Oddly enough, the Noodlers Midnight Blue doesn't feather, and it dries on the paper quite nicely. I tested this with both my Medium and Fine Parker 51s and my newly added Pelikan pens (400 and 800)...
So, I'm guessing its bad batches of papers.. Which really stinks because you could start out with a great notebook and buy another when you fill it only to have it not approach the same quality you got used to.
I also found a location in SF that sells clairefontaine (sp?) papers. Sunset Stationers on Irving and 10th.
By the way, they're having a sale this weekend on Cross FPs.. (25% off)
Oh, and Flax is having a pen show (Valencia and Market) on Saturday from 11-3..
(No affiliation etc etc etc)
Titivillus
May 11 2007, 01:44 AM
QUOTE(Splicer @ May 9 2007, 06:22 PM) [snapback]289371[/snapback]
I haven't had too much trouble with bleed-through per se, but the paper is transparent enough that it may as well bleed through. I can see what's written not just on the next sheet but on the sheet after that! so turning the page over even when not bled through, of course I can see clearly what's on the other side.
That's one of those funny things that one person would consider a problem and another would consider something that gives it a vintage feel. Being able to see through the paper is something that I enjoy about the moleskine as it gives me the feeling that I've put something on paper.
Kurt
I think there is somewhere here that I tried about a half dozen or more inks/ pens and really didn't have that many problems except for a bold nib.
exit here
May 11 2007, 02:41 AM
The gridded (see other threads before referring to it as Graph ..Grrrrr) is of particular importance to me and I am determined to get to the end of this ...
It is easy to identify a Moleskine that will feather before you buy it ....sniff it ...the original formulation is a dusty scent almost scentless (a gridded notebook) ...the (gridded) Cahier it just plain stinks.
I don't think you will have any problem remembering and might be the new marketing campaign for moleskine ...the fine has some dust ...the stinky has a stink.
Cannot wait to go to my pen shop and start sniffing.
Aussie!! ..Aussie!! ..Aussie!! ..Oi ..Oi ..Oi Bunny!!

Bunny!!

Bunny!!
Netnemo
May 11 2007, 09:20 AM
Very strange thread. Infact I use moleskine to classify my pens and inks and it is the best paper notebook I tested.
I had this moleskines and had never a problem:
- pocket ruled notebook
- large ruled notebook
- pocket blank notebook
- pocket 18 months agenda
I wrote to Modo&Modo give them my compliments about quality of the paper, that also with broad nibs never shows the inks through the sheet and has never had ink flowing problems. The only problems I always have is about the glue of the woven bookmark. In all my moleskine I added my glue because it flyed away.
Splicer
May 11 2007, 09:44 AM
QUOTE(Netnemo @ May 11 2007, 02:20 AM) [snapback]290320[/snapback]
Very strange thread. Infact I use moleskine to classify my pens and inks and it is the best paper notebook I tested.
I had this moleskines and had never a problem:
- pocket ruled notebook
- large ruled notebook
- pocket blank notebook
- pocket 18 months agenda
I wrote to Modo&Modo give them my compliments about quality of the paper, that also with broad nibs never shows the inks through the sheet and has never had ink flowing problems. The only problems I always have is about the glue of the woven bookmark. In all my moleskine I added my glue because it flyed away.
I think they must sell the good ones in Italy and ship all their defective runs to the USA, figuring us dumb Americans won't be able to tell the difference.
Netnemo
May 11 2007, 10:07 AM
MMM
it could be possible, not that Modo&Modo thought it, but you stupid americans cannot notice the differences...
talking out jokes, it is possible that there are coincidences and/or noodler's problem. The only noodler I have is the blue ghost and never had problems on moleskine.
with the fpn le i'm waiting also a pr and two noodlers. I will test again.
Splicer
May 11 2007, 10:30 AM
QUOTE(Tytyvyllus @ May 10 2007, 06:44 PM) [snapback]290141[/snapback]
That's one of those funny things that one person would consider a problem and another would consider something that gives it a vintage feel. Being able to see through the paper is something that I enjoy about the moleskine as it gives me the feeling that I've put something on paper.
Yeah, I'm like that with my stationery. Love my airmail paper! But in a notebook I want to write on both sides of the page.
rroossinck
May 11 2007, 10:48 AM
Steve, have you tried any inks other than those that you mention? If you haven't, and you have the chance, try Pelikan's line of inks. They're the only ones that I have ever used that consistently have NOT feathered on 8-10 different Moleskines, and in 10-15 different pens. From time to time I'll get the little tiny "spider veins" that another poster referred to above (and I can post a scan of that if needed), but they really work well for me. They don't smear (I'm a southpaw and need to have ink dry pretty darn quickly or else my writing ends up pretty messed up), they typically don't bleed through (although I've noted that this is somewhat of a page by page thing), and they look reasonably good. When I journal in a Moleskine, I'm typically only using one of two pens - a 51 Vac (incidentally, a 1945, similar to yours) with a Fine/Extra Fine or a Cross Solo with a Japanese Extra Fine. Both of these perform very well for me.
The only fault I have with the Pelikan Royal Blue (which is my go-to ink) is that it's a thinner ink, and as such tends to not deal well with oil from my fingers. When I write on a Moleskine, I'm hard-pressed to not touch the paper with a thumb or forefinger. When the nib gets to that spot, I typically have this sort of funny spot on the page where the ink doesn't go on the paper quite right.
If you haven't tried Pelikan, I'd give it a go. Contact me B/C with further questions, as I've made a bit of a study of the same things you have with your Moleskines.
...BTW...where's the blog entry with the photo of the 51?
research manager
May 12 2007, 12:58 AM
Been there done that.. got the tee-shirt a zillion times. The only thing that I found that works for me is a Hero 100 and washable blue quink for Moleskine. Since I use my moleskine for meetings around the building where I work that is okay becasue I'd rather not bring an expensive FP away from my desk just in case I lose it.
Then while at My desk I use better FP's and Rhodia.
Djehuty
May 12 2007, 01:16 AM
Maybe I was just lucky, but I purchased my first Moleskine recently, and so far I've had no problems with it. Using Waterman Florida Blue, there's only a wee bit of show-through, no bleed-through yet, and it dries relatively quickly.
Titivillus
May 12 2007, 01:23 AM
QUOTE(Splicer @ May 11 2007, 05:30 AM) [snapback]290345[/snapback]
QUOTE(Tytyvyllus @ May 10 2007, 06:44 PM) [snapback]290141[/snapback]
That's one of those funny things that one person would consider a problem and another would consider something that gives it a vintage feel. Being able to see through the paper is something that I enjoy about the moleskine as it gives me the feeling that I've put something on paper.
Yeah, I'm like that with my stationery. Love my airmail paper! But in a notebook I want to write on both sides of the page.
I've got a lab notebook for work that cost $65 and with a ballpoint you can see through the pages. I've used them to death and both sides get written on.
Kurt
110Mike
May 12 2007, 04:52 AM
I bought myself some gridded Cahiers.
My experience so far echos that of rroosink and djehuty. Pelikan black, Waterman F. blue, Parker blue and Parker black works. No bleedthrough, no feathering, no problem.
Noodler`s....... so far I,ve been disappointed in the 3 I`ve tried: Lexington gray (works fair in my Vacumatic), BP black, and BP blue. The blue and black feathers like moulting birds on most paper I have.
I have been very wary of Molekine, mostly due to complaints on this forum. But so far, using the correct ink, I am a satisfied customer.
BTW, I e-mailed Modo a digital image of a defect in one of my Cahiers. The grid was slightly skew. A packet with 3 new cahiers arrived about 10 days later.....
Mike
vibin247
May 17 2007, 02:37 PM
As much as I like the features of the Moleskine notebook like the full flat opening, back pocket, page ribbon, and sturdy hard cover, the paper really stinks to high heaven. And because I can't use my FP's on them, they're sitting there shelved, until I use ballpoints personally again (rollerballs aren't as smooth to my taste). So now I resort to my Bible-thick Miquelrius notebook with endless amounts of writing space, but it's not as close as Moleskine when it comes to features.
Poetman
May 17 2007, 04:56 PM
QUOTE(Splicer @ May 9 2007, 08:58 PM) [snapback]289268[/snapback]
Yeah, this topic has been beaten to death already, but I just sent email to Moda & Moda begging them to do something about the quality of their paper. I take it as a personal insult that they make such wonderful notebooks that are such terrible notebooks. It's as though they're telling us we'll love whatever crap they produce as long as they put a high price tag and a ribbon on it. I know I shouldn't take it personally; they wouldn't be the first company to sell us pigs with lipstick.
Yes, I've tried Noodlers inks... those feather just like everything else. I suspect the paper is just so inconsistent that there's no telling whether you'll get halfway decent paper or not. The formula has definitely changed in the past couple of years... the odor of newer Moleskines is distinctly different from the older variety.
If only Clairefontaine or Miquelrius would buy Moda & Moda and force some good paper on them. I don't buy the argument that they have to hold to tradition regarding the paper; how do they explain the Volants and Cahiers and now the City notebooks with full-color maps and plasticky tracing paper? I'm pretty sure that Van Gogh didn't have one of those.
In the meantime, I'm searching for alternatives.
I've written in Moleskins with different fountain pen inks and haven't had any problems: noodler's waterproof blue, and black, lamy black, and registrar's. No feathering, no bleed through--just inky goodness. I would, however, like thicker pages and a 5ish by 7ish size.
Splicer
May 17 2007, 05:04 PM
QUOTE(rroossinck @ May 11 2007, 03:48 AM) [snapback]290347[/snapback]
...BTW...where's the blog entry with the photo of the 51?
Sorry, I didn't see this until now... and I hadn't posted the 51 photos until the day after you asked anyway! Here:
http://splicer.com/2007/05/12/meet-the-parkers-part-51/QUOTE(110Mike @ May 11 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]291009[/snapback]
My experience so far echos that of rroosink and djehuty. Pelikan black, Waterman F. blue, Parker blue and Parker black works. No bleedthrough, no feathering, no problem.
OK, I used to use Waterman so I should try that again. Also considering trying what little of Aurora black I have to see if that works any better. I'd thought that Aurora wasn't selling it here anymore; maybe just the stores in San Francisco stopped carrying it but FPH seems to sell it.
I also sent Moda & Moda a pretty direct email about the quality of their paper. They seem to be willing to make different sizes and watercolor sketchbooks with heavy oaktag paper (that one's not transparent!) so I don't know. Why can't they make a special "fountain pen-friendly" Moleskine for those of us that want something maybe not quite so heavy as the watercolor sketchbooks and leave the regular Moleskines as is for those who enjoy not knowing what the paper will be like from notebook to notebook?
Maybe it's part of their marketing strategy... I've purchased nine Moleskines in different varieties trying to find something that works. If the paper had been a little better, I would only have bought one or two. I think my solution will end up being like vibin247's:
QUOTE(vibin247 @ May 17 2007, 07:37 AM) [snapback]294705[/snapback]
So now I resort to my Bible-thick Miquelrius notebook with endless amounts of writing space, but it's not as close as Moleskine when it comes to features.
I'm thinking of using Clairefontaine (or Exacompta actually) refills in a leather refillable journal. The one thing that the Moleskines really spoiled me on, and I don't know why other makers can't do this too, is the 6mm spaced rules. Apica's 7mm rules are good too, but the 8mm spacing that Miquelrius and Clairefontaine use? Too much!
In the end I should learn to write consistent lines on unruled paper, but my handwriting ain't there yet, and it may never be.
penartist
May 27 2007, 03:03 AM
I have found that most of my fountain pens will bleed through the paper unless it is a very fine point nib. Otherwise, I like using a broad point Montblanc ball point pen which, of course, has no bleed through and is a pleasure to write with. The paper overall could be a little thicker, but I like the surface.
I have no concerns about the Moleskine sketch books and watercolor books.
RLMcVicar
May 27 2007, 06:41 PM
With the price they make us pay they should produce the paper from Hemp, flax or
cotton, this would improve the paper quality by leaps and bounds. Ironicly the
paper is milled in asia were large quantities of hemp are available.
If I'm to pay ten to sixteen bucks for a hundred sheets of paper "really only fifty
folded" then it should be made of the best starting materials, wood pulp is of insuperior
quality. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM!
I guarantee, that Van Gogh's note books were rag paper "cotton,hemp"
modern Moleskines are inauthentic "I would argue that without rag paper they
aren't true moleskines", because in essence it's about the paper the rest of
the frill is only a container for it.
Writing is a religion for me, most bibles are printed on hemp paper "naturally archival"
why not my faith's doctrine?
rosey
May 28 2007, 04:07 AM
Moleskine paper drives me nuts too. I do use some Moleskine, especially the cashiers and they are ok. I've used many different inks and they all are about the same. Feathering and bleed through are the biggest complaints I have.
I love the Rhodia pads and Clairefontaine. They make some nice notebooks also. The paper can't be beat!
Has anyone used the Rhino pads? I saw those in Staples yesterday and they looked interesting and fun, but I didn't know about the paper.
eirridia
Jun 1 2007, 01:11 PM
QUOTE(Splicer @ May 9 2007, 09:58 PM) [snapback]289268[/snapback]
Yeah, this topic has been beaten to death already, but I just sent email to Moda & Moda begging them to do something about the quality of their paper. I take it as a personal insult that they make such wonderful notebooks that are such terrible notebooks. It's as though they're telling us we'll love whatever crap they produce as long as they put a high price tag and a ribbon on it. I know I shouldn't take it personally; they wouldn't be the first company to sell us pigs with lipstick.
Ahhh. I should have listened to you.
I bought my first Moleskine today. Possibly the worst paper I have ever written on - except perhaps blotting paper, or toilet paper.
The feathering looks like spiders webs, the bleed-through makes the reverse of the paper unusable.
Tried 10 pens of various nibs and flows, with an equal number of different inks.
Really disappointed.
My daughter can have it for her school jotter - as long as she only uses ballpoint or pencil.
Latro21
Jun 6 2007, 05:25 AM
ive got a few moleskines and they work fine with pretty much any writing instrument i have tried in them. no feathering, no problematic see-through, and hardly any bleed-through except with the wettest writers, and then only rarely.
i did notice the blank reporter i just bought seems to have thinner paper than the squared large and pocket size versions i favor.
unfortunately the pocket moleskine ive been using is starting to tear at the top and bottom corners of the cover at the spine. its been carried in a back pocket a lot, but i havent beaten it up and im only maybe a 3rd through it.
id definitely like to find something better to suit my needs, but the paper itself isnt much of a problem for me.
john.reiss
Jun 6 2007, 06:30 AM
QUOTE(Latro21 @ Jun 6 2007, 01:25 AM) [snapback]306648[/snapback]
ive got a few moleskines and they work fine with pretty much any writing instrument i have tried in them. no feathering, no problematic see-through, and hardly any bleed-through except with the wettest writers, and then only rarely.
i did notice the blank reporter i just bought seems to have thinner paper than the squared large and pocket size versions i favor.
unfortunately the pocket moleskine ive been using is starting to tear at the top and bottom corners of the cover at the spine. its been carried in a back pocket a lot, but i havent beaten it up and im only maybe a 3rd through it.
id definitely like to find something better to suit my needs, but the paper itself isnt much of a problem for me.
I had the same problem with one of my Moleskines...it started pulling apart on the spine and the fun pocket in the back decided it was time for some sweet release...duct tape worked wonders....gives it that little extra personality.
John
Splicer
Jun 6 2007, 06:50 AM
The consensus seems to be that the paper is inconsistent. I think it may depend on what batch you get, although truth to tell I'm starting to think that the Moleskines with quality paper are mythical. I did find one that was made before they started shipping the paper manufacture off to China and it is better, but not a lot better. I have noticeable feathering writing with Rotring EFs.
Considering that I've purchased about a dozen Moleskines plus some cahiers in the last two months just trying to find one with decent paper, my theory is that lousy paper is a part of Moda & Moda's marketing plan.
eirridia
Jun 6 2007, 07:48 AM
QUOTE(Splicer @ Jun 6 2007, 07:50 AM) [snapback]306668[/snapback]
Considering that I've purchased about a dozen Moleskines plus some cahiers in the last two months just trying to find one with decent paper, my theory is that lousy paper is a part of Moda & Moda's marketing plan.

I think perhaps M&M just rely on the name Moleskine to sell the product. Wrap it up with an emotive history about Chatwin and everyone will believe that it must be 'quality'.
I'd like to find a pre-86 Moleskine to compare the quality of the original paper with the rubbish I found in my 2007 version.
I bought a pad of 100 sheets of writing paper in the local Post Office yesterday for £0.65 ($1.50).
No feathering, no bleed-through, no transparency. Works with all pens and inks.
Perhaps I should send some to M&M and ask them to wrap these sheets up in a Moleskine cover? I'll even give them a history of my local post office.
Lloyd
Jun 6 2007, 01:29 PM
QUOTE(eirridia @ Jun 6 2007, 03:48 AM) [snapback]306684[/snapback]
Perhaps I should send some to M&M and ask them to wrap these sheets up in a Moleskine cover? I'll even give them a history of my local post office.
domino
Jun 6 2007, 02:01 PM
I also bought several Moleskines. They have an interesting product.
I also don't see much to distinguish them from the rest. There are
several look-a-likes that do just as good, i.e. I bought a small
pocket Moleskine for about $8, I also bought a look-a-like for $1.
The same for the large Moleskine $12 vs $4. The paper seems the same.
So, what makes them so desirable other than the name?
and that good-old Vincent had one in the noona-noona age.
Splicer
Jun 6 2007, 05:01 PM
QUOTE(domino @ Jun 6 2007, 07:01 AM) [snapback]306797[/snapback]
I also bought several Moleskines. They have an interesting product.
I also don't see much to distinguish them from the rest. There are
several look-a-likes that do just as good, i.e. I bought a small
pocket Moleskine for about $8, I also bought a look-a-like for $1.
The same for the large Moleskine $12 vs $4. The paper seems the same.
So, what makes them so desirable other than the name?
and that good-old Vincent had one in the noona-noona age.

I've seen (but not yet tried) the Pentel (?) "Mode Skin" lookalikes; maybe I'll pick up one of those today, but I don't like that they have their logo on the front of the book. Yeah, it's a cosmetic thing, but I like using products, not advertising them. Other than that I'm really not familiar with any Moleskine clones. I like the Miquelrius notebooks, but I don't care for the covers being so flexi, and I wish for a pocket in the back cover. Also, I like the off-white color and the 6mm ruling of the Moleskines, which I'm amazed not to be able to find elsewhere.
I swear if they'd just hold a line without spidering, I'd love them.
But I'd love to try some look-a-likes... are there any brands you've found to recommend?
domino
Jun 6 2007, 06:07 PM
QUOTE(Splicer @ Jun 6 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]306916[/snapback]
QUOTE(domino @ Jun 6 2007, 07:01 AM) [snapback]306797[/snapback]
I also bought several Moleskines. They have an interesting product.
I also don't see much to distinguish them from the rest. There are
several look-a-likes that do just as good, i.e. I bought a small
pocket Moleskine for about $8, I also bought a look-a-like for $1.
The same for the large Moleskine $12 vs $4. The paper seems the same.
So, what makes them so desirable other than the name?
and that good-old Vincent had one in the noona-noona age.

I've seen (but not yet tried) the Pentel (?) "Mode Skin" lookalikes; maybe I'll pick up one of those today, but I don't like that they have their logo on the front of the book. Yeah, it's a cosmetic thing, but I like using products, not advertising them. Other than that I'm really not familiar with any Moleskine clones. I like the Miquelrius notebooks, but I don't care for the covers being so flexi, and I wish for a pocket in the back cover. Also, I like the off-white color and the 6mm ruling of the Moleskines, which I'm amazed not to be able to find elsewhere.
I swear if they'd just hold a line without spidering, I'd love them.
But I'd love to try some look-a-likes... are there any brands you've found to recommend?
I found them in the book stores and Office Depot. Don't remember the brand.
The price was OK. I got them because the paper looked similar, maybe just a tad
heavier. Walden Books, Barnes and Noble, they have a variety...
Djehuty
Jun 6 2007, 08:25 PM
An update to what I said about having no problems with my Moleskine: I purchased a second Moleskine, and it is
hideous. There isn't an ink I can use that doesn't bleed through and feather, and the show-through is so bad that I can't read what I've written if there's anything on the other side of the page. Also, some experimentation has shown that in the first, smaller Moleskine,
only Waterman Florida Blue works without bleed-through and minimal show-through, and even then if the pen is a wet writer all bets are off.
If this were a cheap $1.50 notebook, I could live with it. But in an expensive notebook, with such a fantastic overall design, the hideous paper and poor writing experience is so upsetting that I can't concentrate on what I'm writing. So, no more Moleskines for me.

On the other hand, Apica notebooks I purchased for (if I recall correctly) $2.69 are working wonderfully well.
hardyb
Jun 7 2007, 10:04 PM
Have you tried the Paperblanks company version of the Ms design? I have found them to be really nice, laid paper, cream color, ribbon, folder in the back, elastic band, fab covers. Harley and Marks Publishers makes them, 1-800-277-5887 N. America, +800-3333-8005 Europe. Come in lined and unlined versions, several sizes. Go to their website www.paperblanks.com and look at all the choices.
Splicer
Jun 8 2007, 07:34 AM
QUOTE(hardyb @ Jun 7 2007, 03:04 PM) [snapback]307846[/snapback]
Have you tried the Paperblanks company version of the Ms design? I have found them to be really nice, laid paper, cream color, ribbon, folder in the back, elastic band, fab covers. Harley and Marks Publishers makes them, 1-800-277-5887 N. America, +800-3333-8005 Europe. Come in lined and unlined versions, several sizes. Go to their website www.paperblanks.com and look at all the choices.
You'll have to help me out here. I went to www.paperblanks.com and found nothing vaguely resembling a basic black notebook. I would love nothing better than to find a notebook similar to the Moleskine in every way except for the paper quality, but I was unable to find such a thing. Any pointers more specific than that?
Thanks,
Steve
Splicer
Jun 8 2007, 07:44 AM
QUOTE(domino @ Jun 6 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]306959[/snapback]
I found them in the book stores and Office Depot. Don't remember the brand.
The price was OK. I got them because the paper looked similar, maybe just a tad
heavier. Walden Books, Barnes and Noble, they have a variety...
Oh, yer killin' me!
I've been through every art supply store in San Francisco, and have scoured Office Depot and Staples, Barnes & Noble and Borders. Do you just mean that others make notebooks with black covers, or that there is a manufacturer out there making black stiff-backed ivory notebooks with flat-lying bindings, a folder in the back and an elastic closure?
Maybe I'm just too picky.
eirridia
Jun 8 2007, 09:01 AM
Splicer, do you have a contact in Jakarta?
http://blog.putu.info/2007/05/08/the-moleskine-lookalike/I've also seen this comment in a blog - "a Moleskine copy from Paperchase in the UK - I'm using the copy as it has thicker more fountain pen friendly paper."
Haven't located this product yet.
hardyb
Jun 8 2007, 09:20 PM
On "Paperblanks" Home page- click on "Journals" and then "Old Leather" -you will see four cover choices ranging from brown through cream to red. Not black but nice choices. The red is a dark whine color (sort of).
dedalus
Jun 13 2007, 09:17 AM
I bought my third moleskine in Rome, and I have to say that the paper quality is the same than the ones I bought in London and DC. So even dumb Americans can tell the difference it appears...

(I'm Italian so I'm safe there...) My experience has been that they are of horrible paper quality for FP. I use an OMAS Bologna Burkina FP with OMAS ink and the result is terrible on Moleskine paper. It feathers and bleeds through (not so much that I can't read what I wrote but it's annoying). On the positive side, the notebook looks really "lived" and "travelled" when I go through it, but I'd rather that the see through effect and the feathering wouldn't happen.
As far as subsitutes for the Moleskine, my opinion is that aesthetically they're the best product around. It's a bit like the ipod and other mp3 players. Sure other mp3 players are just as functional and perform much better than the Ipod. But, alas, they're not Ipods...seems convoluted...but in my mind it's pretty clear!
Dedalus
Splicer
Jun 14 2007, 07:47 PM
QUOTE(dedalus @ Jun 13 2007, 02:17 AM) [snapback]311384[/snapback]
As far as subsitutes for the Moleskine, my opinion is that aesthetically they're the best product around. It's a bit like the ipod and other mp3 players. Sure other mp3 players are just as functional and perform much better than the Ipod. But, alas, they're not Ipods...seems convoluted...but in my mind it's pretty clear!
It doesn't seem quite the same to me. I don't think the benefits of either the iPod or the Moleskine are intangible. With the iPod perhaps for the same money you can get a player with more storage, but can you find one with which you can choose what you want to hear while walking down the street? With the Moleskine, having the closure band has a real benefit; so does the pocket in the back. The size and shape is ergonomically and aesthetically balanced, the color of the paper is easy on the eyes even in direct sunlight (try opening a Clairefontaine at noon on a clear day and you'll be a candidate for a retinal transplant) and the spacing of the rules is sane for grown-ups who are not still learning to draw letters.
The drawback of the Moleskine however is equally tangible: it turns my extra-fine nibs into writers of extra-broad caterpillar-looking lines. That would be the equivalent of an MP3 player having a great user interface (like the iPod for example) but which played all music in staticky mono with no dynamic range.
dedalus
Jun 14 2007, 08:05 PM
QUOTE(Splicer @ Jun 14 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]312260[/snapback]
QUOTE(dedalus @ Jun 13 2007, 02:17 AM) [snapback]311384[/snapback]
As far as subsitutes for the Moleskine, my opinion is that aesthetically they're the best product around. It's a bit like the ipod and other mp3 players. Sure other mp3 players are just as functional and perform much better than the Ipod. But, alas, they're not Ipods...seems convoluted...but in my mind it's pretty clear!
It doesn't seem quite the same to me. I don't think the benefits of either the iPod or the Moleskine are intangible. With the iPod perhaps for the same money you can get a player with more storage, but can you find one with which you can choose what you want to hear while walking down the street? With the Moleskine, having the closure band has a real benefit; so does the pocket in the back. The size and shape is ergonomically and aesthetically balanced, the color of the paper is easy on the eyes even in direct sunlight (try opening a Clairefontaine at noon on a clear day and you'll be a candidate for a retinal transplant) and the spacing of the rules is sane for grown-ups who are not still learning to draw letters.
The drawback of the Moleskine however is equally tangible: it turns my extra-fine nibs into writers of extra-broad caterpillar-looking lines. That would be the equivalent of an MP3 player having a great user interface (like the iPod for example) but which played all music in staticky mono with no dynamic range.
i don't follow you on the Ipod argument, most mp3 players today have exactly the same capabilities as an Ipod. It's just the status of the object that makes it cooler than the other Mp3s around. At the same time there are loads of notebooks with better paper quality than the moleskine and many notebooks with the black elastic band. But they're not status and maybe not as cool.
Am I saying the same thing as you?
Dedalus
eirridia
Jun 14 2007, 08:13 PM
Splicer, I see you're a Namiki/Pilot fan too.
I bought another Moleskine yesterday - why do I do this????!!!! - in the belief that surely I had picked up a 'rogue' item the last time.
First page, Pilot long-cap with Japanese F nib. I could almost HEAR the ink being sucked out of the pen as it touched the paper. Great furry broad lines. Straight through the page and almost re-printed on the page underneath.
Another few pounds/dollars wasted.
I'm thinking that I might actually tear out the pages to use as pocket blotters. The Moleskine paper sucks up ink better than the blotting paper I've got on my desk pad.
Hmmmmm, another thought. I could tear out the pages put a string though the corner and hang them up in my bathroom. More absorbent than soft-wipes for sure.
I received a 'flyer' in the post today. A xerox copy of some sort, but the paper was WONDERFUL! There was a tear off slip where you could fill in your name and address if you wanted more info about a certain product. I started to fill in the form and suddenly I was in Nirvana. I scrabbled for every pen/ink combination I have. Every one laid down a superb line, smooth as silk, bright, wet but fairly quick drying. The flyer is now covered with multi-coloured doodles. I'm considering writing to the company and asking them what paper they printed their flyer on.
If cheap mass-produced flyers can be produced on such wonderful FP-friendly paper why can't Moleskine produce something that works with anything wetter than a HB pencil?
Splicer
Jun 14 2007, 09:30 PM
QUOTE(dedalus @ Jun 14 2007, 01:05 PM) [snapback]312275[/snapback]
i don't follow you on the Ipod argument, most mp3 players today have exactly the same capabilities as an Ipod. It's just the status of the object that makes it cooler than the other Mp3s around. At the same time there are loads of notebooks with better paper quality than the moleskine and many notebooks with the black elastic band. But they're not status and maybe not as cool.
Am I saying the same thing as you?
I think we're saying similar things.
iPods and Moleskines both have "cool" and "name brand recognition." Those increase the marketplace price without increasing the practical value of the product.
iPods and Moleskines both have usability features ancillary to their primary purpose. You can write on practically any paper, but the size and shape of the Moleskine, as well as the pocket in the back, the end papers and frontispiece with spaces for contact/loss information, the ribbon placemarkers, color choice and rule spacing, the choice of binding and cover material, all add value to the overall experience of using the Moleskine. Those individual features can be found elsewhere; none are unique, but the overall design incorporating those features is compelling to someone that uses a notebook regularly away from a desk. The iPod similarly does not have any single feature that is unique to it, but has a set of features and a design sensibility lending themselves to ease of use. It's easier to find what I want to listen to on an iPod than on other players, because its interface is well-designed and well-organized.
Here's where I see the difference: iPods have less storage than other MP3 players of the same price. To me that's a minor drawback, and I think of it in terms of paying extra for the usability--I can spend more to get both the feature and the storage capacity. Moleskines universally (or at least unpredictably) have crappy paper. That's not a convenience drawback; it goes to the basic functionality of the notebook, seriously impairing its utility to me despite the features that would increase the usability if it had decent paper. I don't see any such drawback to an iPod, except for the models that are based on little tiny hard drives. Even then I have a choice between the models that have hard drives and the models that have flash RAM. I have no option to pay more to get a Moleskine that does not come with the defects and drawbacks that I don't like.
It's that last part where I see the Moleskine/iPod comparison break down.
Splicer
Jun 14 2007, 09:50 PM
QUOTE(eirridia @ Jun 14 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]312280[/snapback]
If cheap mass-produced flyers can be produced on such wonderful FP-friendly paper why can't Moleskine produce something that works with anything wetter than a HB pencil?
I hear you. I think it's because change is expensive and takes effort, and Moda & Moda doesn't see a low cost/benefit ratio associated with appeasing a few whiny fountain pen owners. Ballpoint and rollerball users don't have any trouble with the paper, and I assume they make up the bulk of the market.
Furthermore, like many other businesses, they haven't gotten the business truth that
0 + 0 + 0 > (the value of your business)
Which is to say that all the corners you cut to save money that make "no difference" can add up to something bigger than the value of your business. I think it's clear that the quality of the paper has decreased significantly since the production was sent to China, despite Moda & Moda's claim that it has made no difference
Titivillus
Jun 14 2007, 09:55 PM
QUOTE(Djehuty @ Jun 6 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]307066[/snapback]
An update to what I said about having no problems with my Moleskine: I purchased a second Moleskine, and it is
hideous. There isn't an ink I can use that doesn't bleed through and feather, and the show-through is so bad that I can't read what I've written if there's anything on the other side of the page. .

My take on the whole Moleskine paper thing is the same as I have for Fountain pens. If an item is causing you problems because of poor quality then the store/ person that you bought it from should know, the distributor should know and the manufacturer should know. The longer that people put up with shoddy paper in notebooks or horrible quality control in pens the more time there is for manufacturers to make both. If you are unhappy make sure the manufacturer knows that you are displeased. To quietly suffer with substandard writing materials should not be what we do but rather we should rise up and make every bad pen known or notebook for that matter.
K
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