Well... as the subject says - opinions please. My f's are very inconsistent

i cut off a bit of the text on the right side - that should say "red mix" (which is ugly but flows very well.)

I'm just beginning to practise this myself so obviously I'm no judge but your angle, letter forms and up 'n' down strokes look great to me.

Looks great to me, KCat. I'm no expert, either, but even I can see that you're able to keep the slant consistent on both the long ascenders and descenders. That's what I find the hardest thing to do in this style of writing.

Those "f"s are a pain, aren't they? I had so much trouble with them that I looked around and found a different letter form to copy -- one without the lower loop. Even so, they're my least favorite lower case letters to write.

I made myself write "fluffy" many times during my last practice session. Talk about visual nightmares!!

Do you have a favorite letter so far? I'm kind of liking "b".

ElaineB
eagerly waiting the arrival of upper case letters someday!

I don't have much trouble with the slant being consistent - though I do have trouble making it as extreme as I would like that is getting better I think. In my early sample the lettering was more rounded and "squat" so I think I've improved there. Frankly, I used the "method" Corien mentioned, which may be sort of cheating, but I don't think so, I angle the paper CCW more than I would for other forms of handwriting.

"b" is good - but I think I'd have to say that "g" is my favorite thus far. Though I've only been working on it since the day I wrote this sample so you can see I'm working on the bottom "loop" in terms of consistent size/length much as for the "f".

you might also notice in this sample that I'm putting more pressure on the downstrokes in general than is recommended. IOW, the variation on the f and b should start after the top loop is closed. I may practice with a dip pen this weekend - that will be soooo much more challenging though because even my smoothest dip nib is a lesson in control.

I'm finding the F and D in chancery really challenging which is why you don't see my chancery sample up yet. More on that in the chancery discussion.

I think that's inevitable when you're not using an offset nib. Like you, I turn the paper at a pretty weird angle and that helps. But I don't ever think I'll get that perfect Spencerian slant unless I'm using the specialized steel dip pen.

And honestly... that's fine. I'm always inspired by the examples Antonio posts, and by contemporary penmen like Rob Morrison and Pier Gustafson. They've taken the classic copperplate forms and infused them with a lot of personal style. The slant isn't the big thing for them -- it's the control of the swashes, the expressive strokes, and the thick/thin contrasts that they have the most fun with.

If I ever achieve 1/10th the expertise that these guys show, I'll be a happy soul. Right now, I just want the descenders on my "g"s to stop looking like summer zucchini!!

One thing I did discover this week during my practice sessions was the subtleties of shaping the thick strokes. The epiphany came when I started using the gold dip pen rather than the fountain pen. The dip pen could make more contrast between thick and thin, which let me make larger letter forms.

And I discovered that to get the right type of rounded curves on the top and bottom of the strokes, you have to start applying the pressure AFTER you begin the downstroke, and then take the pressure off BEFORE you come to the end of the downstroke. It takes a real sense of timing to write this way. The way I normally write, I apply an even amount of pressure for the entire movement from top to bottom of a stroke. I'll vary the pressure between strokes, but not -during- the strokes themselves.

So I worked very, VERY slowly, and saw a few really nicely formed letters among the general mess of my practice sheets. I don't think I'd ever have the patience to write long texts in this way, but it was satisfying to figure out how these shapes were formed.

ElaineB

Kcat, You are doing fine

ElaineB has already uncovered a very important "secret". This style of writing needs space. If you try to make small copperplate letters control of pen and hand motion is very difficult (at least with fountain pens).

Also ElaineB is again correct in noting the addition of a personal touch. Although I would like to be able to imitate the perfect copperplate, I do not like the pressure for perfection . So I let my hand fly and I do not care about violating any rules that true caligraphers would insist on form and consistency. There is nothing better than to let a great pen fly over the paper with ovals and loops and swashes.

Keep on the good work.

AZ

Elaine: That's exactly the problem. It seems natural for me to immediately put pressure on the down stroke rather than starting off light. I have an "elbow" dip nib (that is, it's a one-piece off-set instead of having an off-set holder) but haven't really worked with it.

Antonios: Thanks much for your input. I do tend to write small and always have. There's a joke between myself and a snailee friend that my writing really improves when I'm uh.. under the influence... because I relax and just let the letters flow. I wonder at the psychological significance of my small, cramped handwriting. Honestly I think it is part of my personality - IRL, I prefer to be small and unnoticed. anyway - apart from that tangent, I'm also fighting an intention tremor that i tend to be too concerned about (thereby increasing that tremor.) This makes for smaller writing too - because I can see what are, to my eyes, huuuuge "blips" in a line that is supposed to be smooth. You posted a short video many months ago on Pentract that showed your flex execution. If you still have that available to link to or to email, I would greatly appreciate it.

The link is here: here. (9MB movie)
You will see that I had to slow down much more for smaller letters. It is the large moves that let the pen show its potential...

*awed gasps*

Antonio! That is AMAZING to watch. What pen are you using??? It flowed so easily, it looked like you were unwinding ribbons onto the paper, rather than writing!

I watched it on my laptop and turned my screen upside down, so I could watch your hands and fingers form the letters from the writer's point of view. I noticed immediately how your fingers curled into tighter control when you were doing that one series of "u" shaped curves. It was very useful to see. I think my hands hold the pen roughly the same way. But I need much more pressure to open the tines than you do, so I end up fatiguing the muscles pretty quickly.

Thank you for posting that. It's amazing. Anytime you want to make more calligraphy movies, you'll have at least one rapt audience member!!

ElaineB

Stunned, Antonio! Eye/hand coordination way above the the gifted, even. I don't know whether it encourages or discourages me.

Like ElaineB, I, too, want to know what pen? But, that's the same thing we golfers do. We want to know what a certain pro is using, as if we could do the same by using what they use.

A "plain" semiflex 52 Waterman ripple. Not a spectacular pen anyway in terms of the nib.

Antonios,

As you know, when I first saw the note that you sent together with the Waterman 92 I bought from you, I was stunned at your penmanship. I thought perhaps that you wrote with a slow hand to form those beautiful letters. Now, having watched you do it in real-time, I'm even more stunned!! I've got to get cracking with this pen!!

I can't quite tell, but do you hold the pen in a particular angle to get the tines to open up or is it just simply pressure on both tines which are touching the paper at the same time?

Hi I think we highjacked KCat's thread enough.
I just posted my observations on the holding position in a separate thread here.

"red mix" (which is ugly but flows very well.) If the scanning color is true it's a beautiful color to me. Could you tell me how you made it?

yup, what shows on my monitor is as close to the RL color as I can get.

It started with Diamine Claret.

Then I added... something brown.

Probably it was WM Havana because I thought a reddish brown in a pinkish red ink might make a dusky rose. Forgetting of course just how dark Havana actually is.

I will say it was a very rich red and it did flow very well. I'm just not big on red.

I wish I could tell you proportions but I can't because I just pipetted a small amount of ink into converter that was about half-full of Claret. It was probably about 1:2. unfortunately, I have none of it left as I wrote out the contents of the pen. I'll admit the more I used the ink, the more appealing it became.

I can always dink with batches and send you some samples if you like. First I have to find the pages I wrote with this ink. Or I can send you a vial each of Claret and Havana if you don't have them and you can play with the colors yourself. Just let me know.

%,ªcat, I think I'll use my own mixing with my Waterman inks. I don't like red either but I'm crasy for anything in the pink family. At night the ink looked more pink but now in daylight the brown undertone is clearly visible.

I made a similar color with with Waterman red and black. So I guess the base light color should be half full and drops of the darker one added slowly.

I wish I had a pen like that. What kind of pen was it?

Hi, as I said above it is a "plain" semiflex 52 Waterman ripple. Not a spectacular pen anyway in terms of the nib.

Oh, I'm sorry for making you repeat yourself when I could just have read properly. I was so excited about the video that I just went ahead and posted.

No problem - all I wanted to emphasize is that you can get great results with a "plain" vanilla vintage nib.

By plain vanilla you mean un-tampered with? Not modified?

I meant nothing exotic - such as a Waterman Pink nib etc.

Many (but not all) 52s have decent flex by modern standards.
I would say that at least 3/4 if not more of the Waterman 52s that I have handled have much more flex that the Dani Trio modern flex nib.
Such nibs are great for those that want to start experimenting with flex but do not want to play with spectacular but more sensitive wet noddles.

Wow...So for the past 13 years, I've been writing in a [modified] Copperplate script without even knowing it.

Your sample looks fine to me, KCat, from a regular-schmoe's perspective.

WOW. How do you DO that. I have to get a flex pen and practice. That is SOOOOO cool.