I first bought a Platinum PTM-10000 with a music nib that is a gorgeous writer. Wet and distinct at the same time. Perfect for writing Chancery Italic.
A little euphoric I then bought a yellow Sailor 1911 M with music nib. The pen is a pleasure for both the eye and the hand, but the nib is both broad and blunt and can hardly be used for italic writing, even less for musical notation because of the "bluntness". The nib shows little line variations.
Do you have the same experience?
Have you sent your nib for regrinding?
Are my experiences representative for differences between Platinum and Sailor music nibs?
Full Version: Sailor Music nibs
Don't touch that nib!!! 
You can in fact get line variation. All that you need is a bit of time on the learning curve.
The fact is that the Sailor is a very wet writer. To get the line variation, think writing with not really touching the paper.
My "conversation" with myhand goes like this as I do a bit of warm up before writing music with the music nib.
Get a lighter touch.
write music symbols and words for a few lines...
No, still lighter touch...
write more lines...
LIGHTER TOUCH YOU FOOL. YOU CAN STILL FEEL THE PAPER TOUCHING THE NIB!!!
write a few more lines...
FINALLY, YOU'VE GOT IT!!!
The music nib takes the lightest touch of any pen I've used. I am BTW, using it to write music. This means, I am writing "open body" notes: whole notes, half notes and lots of markings. I have way too many whole notes for my personal playing taste, but this is a beginner's book project.
So, before you do the irreversible, give the nib a chance. Perhaps you can find a drier writing ink for your pen. Sailor ink flows a bit less than Pelikan Brilliant Black in my pen. I have another Sailor where the opposite is true, so that is not a statement of how the pen functions.
I'm happy with the flow of the Pelikan Brilliant black because I'm writing in a very dry environment on paper that seems to require more ink to have the writing stable on the page. It is the worst batch of manuscript/ledger paper I've ever owned. All that the ink choice means for me is that I'm not able to recommend a good choice for you.
And, before you use it on a "real", (i.e., non-practice type of writing) non-music project, you might just need a bit of learning. I found after practicing every day for two weeks, I got the muscle memory down pat, and learned the right feeling in my hand. It is now there on a pretty ready basis, even if I don't use the Sailor Music Nib for a week at a time.
Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
You can in fact get line variation. All that you need is a bit of time on the learning curve.
The fact is that the Sailor is a very wet writer. To get the line variation, think writing with not really touching the paper.
My "conversation" with myhand goes like this as I do a bit of warm up before writing music with the music nib.
Get a lighter touch.
write music symbols and words for a few lines...
No, still lighter touch...
write more lines...
LIGHTER TOUCH YOU FOOL. YOU CAN STILL FEEL THE PAPER TOUCHING THE NIB!!!
write a few more lines...
FINALLY, YOU'VE GOT IT!!!
The music nib takes the lightest touch of any pen I've used. I am BTW, using it to write music. This means, I am writing "open body" notes: whole notes, half notes and lots of markings. I have way too many whole notes for my personal playing taste, but this is a beginner's book project.
So, before you do the irreversible, give the nib a chance. Perhaps you can find a drier writing ink for your pen. Sailor ink flows a bit less than Pelikan Brilliant Black in my pen. I have another Sailor where the opposite is true, so that is not a statement of how the pen functions.
I'm happy with the flow of the Pelikan Brilliant black because I'm writing in a very dry environment on paper that seems to require more ink to have the writing stable on the page. It is the worst batch of manuscript/ledger paper I've ever owned. All that the ink choice means for me is that I'm not able to recommend a good choice for you.
And, before you use it on a "real", (i.e., non-practice type of writing) non-music project, you might just need a bit of learning. I found after practicing every day for two weeks, I got the muscle memory down pat, and learned the right feeling in my hand. It is now there on a pretty ready basis, even if I don't use the Sailor Music Nib for a week at a time.
Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.
I'm having the same experience with a Platinum music nib. I expected to be able to use it for chancery italic. I can't. I'm really stuck on this one though because the nib is a pleasure to write with. Unfortunately, it's too broad for me for general use. The only thing I would consider is swapping the nib with someone who would appreciate the nib.
Dear Elizabeth,
No Way,
When I have handed up > $100 I want the pen to be a good writer from start and not in the need for any special precautions when writing with it. When I already have a very good Platinum music nib and a Richard Binder 0.9 mm cursive italic I expect no less from a Sailor.
If you take a look at [URL=http://www.nibs.com/SailorNibPage.htm] www.nibs.com Sailor nib page, you see a Sailor music nib totally unlike mine, and perhaps unlike yours as well, and a testamonial suggesting that Mr John Mottishaw had done some job with a customers music nib.
Lennart
No Way,
When I have handed up > $100 I want the pen to be a good writer from start and not in the need for any special precautions when writing with it. When I already have a very good Platinum music nib and a Richard Binder 0.9 mm cursive italic I expect no less from a Sailor.
If you take a look at [URL=http://www.nibs.com/SailorNibPage.htm] www.nibs.com Sailor nib page, you see a Sailor music nib totally unlike mine, and perhaps unlike yours as well, and a testamonial suggesting that Mr John Mottishaw had done some job with a customers music nib.
Lennart
If you have the time, give Pat a call at www.nibs.com and ask her what John does to his Sailor music nibs. Pat usually knows these things and will tell you what their customers say about the various products they carry.
Mike
Mike
Yes Mike,
I sent them an e-mail yesterday and of course they will reply in due time.
Lennart
I sent them an e-mail yesterday and of course they will reply in due time.
Lennart
| QUOTE (Lennart Wennberg @ Apr 2 2007, 11:42 AM) |
| Dear Elizabeth, No Way, When I have handed up > $100 I want the pen to be a good writer from start and not in the need for any special precautions when writing with it. When I already have a very good Platinum music nib and a Richard Binder 0.9 mm cursive italic I expect no less from a Sailor. If you take a look at [URL=http://www.nibs.com/SailorNibPage.htm] www.nibs.com Sailor nib page, you see a Sailor music nib totally unlike mine, and perhaps unlike yours as well, and a testamonial suggesting that Mr John Mottishaw had done some job with a customers music nib. Lennart |
Hey, all I was saying is that like violins, each pen is a bit different. If someone handed me a Strad or a real Del Jesu, I'd still need some time to learn the instrument. No two are alike. No two pens, even from the same manufacturer, are exactly alike. Pens, like violins, require a bit of learned muscle memory to get the best from them. My Music nib only needed a bit of learning, and not much at that, resulting in a lighter touch!
The result for me was a lovely line variation, with pretty clean borders, no errant filled in half notes, and some impressive looking dynamic and other markings. All I did was a bit of practicing, totalling less than 5 minutes per day until I had the muscle memory.
I have to say that when I switch from a pen with a regular italic nib to the music nib, it is a bit more challenging to avoid too much ink coming out. That problem is one of my being slow on the pen strokes. For me it's just keeping the pen moving very lightly and all is perfect.
Don't tell certain ink makers. I'm sure it's just this one pen that has a tendency to overflow a bit of abundant color onto a page when filled with ink it doesn't like the best. After all, it couldn't be me, seeing as I always perfect every time I pick the pen up. I never need to accomodate differences in paper, inks, nib configuration or any other factors. Now, if the pen could only get that chord progression right...
hi,
richard makes music nibs too.
go to his at www.richardspens.com, go to nibs--e mail him,
richard makes music nibs too.
go to his at www.richardspens.com, go to nibs--e mail him,
As someone said, the Sailor music nib takes a little learning to get used to. I have a 1911 full size rhodium trim music nib and I relegated it to the last pen on my rotation but it has since become a always inked pen on my desk now!
For me, there is a good deal of line variation. I get the best results from writing light (with the nib barely touching the paper). If you use force, you will get the baby-bottom effect or the railway effect. I slant the nib to the right a little at my steeper than average angle of writing and it always write nice, smooth and wet. It seems that private reserve flows a lot better than Noodler's on this pen--intuitively at least. I have tried my own version of italic and it works pretty well.
It is around 1.2mm and I thought if it is slightly narrower (0.8mm), it would be very very nice. So the broadness is a little problem for me because I tend to write small. Hope this helps.
For me, there is a good deal of line variation. I get the best results from writing light (with the nib barely touching the paper). If you use force, you will get the baby-bottom effect or the railway effect. I slant the nib to the right a little at my steeper than average angle of writing and it always write nice, smooth and wet. It seems that private reserve flows a lot better than Noodler's on this pen--intuitively at least. I have tried my own version of italic and it works pretty well.
It is around 1.2mm and I thought if it is slightly narrower (0.8mm), it would be very very nice. So the broadness is a little problem for me because I tend to write small. Hope this helps.
Thank you all for your comments,
In fact, I have already sent it to Richard Binder for examinations and hopefully regrinding.
IŽll report the result but I realise it can take some time...
Lennart
In fact, I have already sent it to Richard Binder for examinations and hopefully regrinding.
IŽll report the result but I realise it can take some time...
Lennart
| QUOTE (lecorbusier @ Apr 3 2007, 02:44 AM) |
| As someone said, the Sailor music nib takes a little learning to get used to. I have a 1911 full size rhodium trim music nib and I relegated it to the last pen on my rotation but it has since become a always inked pen on my desk now! For me, there is a good deal of line variation. I get the best results from writing light (with the nib barely touching the paper). If you use force, you will get the baby-bottom effect or the railway effect. I slant the nib to the right a little at my steeper than average angle of writing and it always write nice, smooth and wet. It seems that private reserve flows a lot better than Noodler's on this pen--intuitively at least. I have tried my own version of italic and it works pretty well. It is around 1.2mm and I thought if it is slightly narrower (0.8mm), it would be very very nice. So the broadness is a little problem for me because I tend to write small. Hope this helps. |
lecorbusier, which inks flow liberally and which inks that you've tried flow less liberally?
I've found Pelikan Brilliant Black is a good, but not excessive, flowing ink.
Noodler's Summer Tananger (tried only as an experiment) flows like crazy. Then again, I really can't write music with orange ink. The same is true of Conrad Bream (also Noodler's) and music isn't often done in a lovely purple.
As for writing small without getting too much flow, I've found speed is the cure. If I keep the pen moving along pretty well, the very smallest whole or half notes I'm writing (on ledger paper where the staves are printed narrow) don't "accidentally" turn into quarter notes. Perhaps it's not only the writing size but the speed of the hand holding the pen? Hope this helps.
I'm going to try the holding a bit to the right as you noted in your post. Maybe I'll get even better line variation from the nib. One thing I like about the music nib is all the variations in one beautiful nib. The learning is part of the fun.
violinwriter,
I have been using three inks on this pen: PR orange crush, Noodler's Red-Black and Waterman blue-black. The last three is an ink that was only used briefly and I have been using Noodler's RB predominantly. Thus compared, PR orange crush flows better.
You are quite right about the fun learning. I have also learned to use and control this pen better even when writing on letterpads that have 5mm high rows. I cannot deny the frustrating times but as it is, these times become rarer with learning.
As it is, my only complaint with this nib is that it is still too wide. A little narrorwer would have been much nicer for my non-music writing!
I have been using three inks on this pen: PR orange crush, Noodler's Red-Black and Waterman blue-black. The last three is an ink that was only used briefly and I have been using Noodler's RB predominantly. Thus compared, PR orange crush flows better.
You are quite right about the fun learning. I have also learned to use and control this pen better even when writing on letterpads that have 5mm high rows. I cannot deny the frustrating times but as it is, these times become rarer with learning.
As it is, my only complaint with this nib is that it is still too wide. A little narrorwer would have been much nicer for my non-music writing!
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