I recently bought a black waterman with 1884 patent information and a number 6 on the end of the pen and on the nip. Is the number 6 the model or does it solely correspond to the nib? I just bought one of the old boxes to go with it and I was wondering what kind of eyedropper would have come in the box. I would love it if some of you guys could post pictures on here so that I can see what I am looking for.
you can see a picture of the box and pen by looking at my other post. I will post more pictures later
many thanks
Sam
Full Version: Waterman eyedropper
A V-strutter huh? Not bad but give me an old Nieuport any day! 
Is 1884 the last patent, or ate there 2 1884 patents. And its the only one on there, ummmmmm a #6 would be about a lot. The 2 patents would be 300-375 I would guess. Nice find. Old waterman ed's with 1884 patents are hard to find. Especially with a #6 nib.
Edit: PS. what is the address of the waterman company on the box. That is one of the best ways to find the date.
Edit twice: I just looked at your picture. It looks like an old one. Waterman started using the 1x afer about 1905... correct?
Edit: PS. what is the address of the waterman company on the box. That is one of the best ways to find the date.
Edit twice: I just looked at your picture. It looks like an old one. Waterman started using the 1x afer about 1905... correct?
There are two 1884 patent dates. What is a v-strutter? I am interested in finishing the set. I have difficulty believing I will be able to find the instructions but it seems possible that I will eventually find an eyedropper for it. Do you have any idea what eyedropper would have been issued by Waterman in the box?
| QUOTE |
| Waterman started using the 1x afer about 1905... correct? |
Waterman started using the 1x designation for cone-cap pens much earlier than 1905. The cone-cap pens were probably introduced around 1894 and there are ads for the 1x designation for the cone-cap in October 1894. However, Waterman continued to produce the single-digit straight-cap model numbers well past the introduction of the 1X series. I have a 1905 ad on the wall behind me, and it has straight cap models 2 G.M. - 6 G.M (G.M. designated 2 gold-filled bands). I believe they were around for much later as well.
Here is a thread that addresses the start of the 1x series and the cone-cap, as well as other discussion about early WM pens. The 1x series, along with a picture of a Feb 1895 ad featuring one, are toward the end of the thread.
Earlyu Waterman Pens at Lion and Pen
John
That's a nice early pen, but I think the box is older yet.
Hi Guys ..... neat pen ....... but hey Ray you know your planes. The Albatros DV and DVa superceded the D.I, D.II and DIII and was flown by Jasta 4, 37, 59,61 and others in the first world war. Powered by a 160/180 hp Mercedes engine it reached the staggering speed of 106mph ..... and it was made out of plywood!!!!
The D.III onwards had "V" struts between the upper and lower wings.
It's my favorite plane and I'm afraid it's better that any Nieuport
The pen is neat too though!!!!
The 6 is the nib size and the pen number. It was the biggest early eyedropper at the time according to the 1897 catlogue. In plain black it cost $6 in 1897 but I bet its worth a lot more now
John
The D.III onwards had "V" struts between the upper and lower wings.
It's my favorite plane and I'm afraid it's better that any Nieuport
The pen is neat too though!!!!
The 6 is the nib size and the pen number. It was the biggest early eyedropper at the time according to the 1897 catlogue. In plain black it cost $6 in 1897 but I bet its worth a lot more now
John
It is interesting on how the nib is over and under... Hmm... Waterman ads (i dont think) had over and under feed? Any references?
Edit: ohh the nibs upside down
Edit: ohh the nibs upside down
That's just the angle of the photo, which shows the (conventional) underfeed from below.
I appreciate all of the information on the pen and box. I understand the box is older. Could you give me a ballpark for the age of both? I also would like to know when they started putting the circle around Ideal. I bought the box because it did not have the circle and I figured that it was correct since it fit so nicely. What would be the correct box for this pen? It has been a lot of fun learning and I will certainly continue collecting Waterman so I think I will be hanging onto both for some time.
thanks
Sam
thanks
Sam
| QUOTE (penuria @ Mar 26 2007, 06:12 PM) |
| Hi Guys ..... neat pen ....... but hey Ray you know your planes. The Albatros DV and DVa superceded the D.I, D.II and DIII and was flown by Jasta 4, 37, 59,61 and others in the first world war. Powered by a 160/180 hp Mercedes engine it reached the staggering speed of 106mph ..... and it was made out of plywood!!!! The D.III onwards had "V" struts between the upper and lower wings. It's my favorite plane and I'm afraid it's better that any Nieuport The pen is neat too though!!!! The 6 is the nib size and the pen number. It was the biggest early eyedropper at the time according to the 1897 catlogue. In plain black it cost $6 in 1897 but I bet its worth a lot more now John |
A little OT but since it came up:
Yes a V strutter is a biplane where the wings are bound together on the outside by a V shaped piece of wood or metal.
As you can see on this little Nieuport 11 the wings are bound by the big V. You can see the same plane in action against a Fokker Eindecker here:
Battle Shot
The photo, for those interested, is from the recently-release Phase 2 of Over FLanders Fields. It's a FREE game mod for the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim 3 game. If you own CFS 3, you can just download this game and play WW1. There is, among others, an Albatros DVa as well. www.overflandersfields.com
Ray ... I take your point .... enthusiasm only ...
I will download and try the Nieuport
John
I will download and try the Nieuport
John
Didn't Nieuports have the nasty habit of loosing their fabric in dives?
| QUOTE (albatrosdva @ Mar 28 2007, 10:35 PM) |
I will download and try the Nieuport Didn't Nieuports have the nasty habit of loosing their fabric in dives? |
Is this true?
Where is that old parachute?
I could be wrong with this about the fabric. I read a book sometime back about the Lafayette Escadrille and in it it tells about how the Americans got the oldest of the French planes. It seems like it was the Nieuport 11 when the French had the 17 which was structurally better but it could have been the old 9s
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