Hi, I just got some new silicone (rather than latex) ink sacs in from Wood Bin and have replaced the three on my Esterbrooks that needed them. I know I'm supposed to dust the sacs with talc before putting them back in the barrel, and I could have sworn we had some around here, but apparently we were concerned about my son's health when he was a newborn and only got him corn starch, not talc. Is corn starch an acceptable substitute, or should I wait until morning and head to the pharmacy?
Thanks!
Full Version: Can I use corn starch instead of talc?
I haven't heard of any problems with corn starch - but neither have I heard it was ok. Two other possibilities. Soap was mentioned by Dubiel I think, and powedered graphite was also considered ok. The graphite does leave a lot of black around, but other than being messy, is ok.
Regards,
Gerry
Regards,
Gerry
I believe corn starch is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the atmosphere), so it might turn into goo over time. The goo probably wouldn't hurt anything, but talc won't do that.
I guess I should just be patient, then, and go get some talc in the morning. Patience is not always one of my strong points.
I would definitely avoid the corn starch. Not only will it turn to goo in the presence of any moisture, it's very sticky too. If you have a sac leak you'll have one heck of a mess.
I have used corn startch in the past without any problems (you are after all, using only a dusting), did so for years as a matter of fact. But as Richard once pointed out, it is "biological". Good old talc is mineral, and so won't feed the little bugs etc.
Use pure talc, as baby powder etc. may have "stuff" added to it.
Use pure talc, as baby powder etc. may have "stuff" added to it.
All I could find was baby powder, which, according to the label has only perfume added to it, so now my Esterbrooks smell like a baby's bottom. I would have been more worried (and not even have asked) about the corn starch and a possible attraction to bugs had I used latex ink sacs, but I figured any bugs wouldn't have a taste for silicone (one would think) . . . Hopefully everything will be fine now. Thanks, all.
Long ago I bought some talc. I have now replaced dozens and dozens of sacs, and I've not had one instance where I had to use it. So, try using nothing. If your sac is that tight, it may be too big for the pen.
Good luck,
dj
Good luck,
dj
No, the sacs aren't tight (and I think 16 is pretty standard for a plastic Estie), but they are rather sticky, and want to stick to the J-bar and inside of the barrel. According to what I've read (and I'll readily admit, I'm still rather new to this, so I'm only learning), the talc prevents future problems caused by parts sticking together. Maybe KY would have been good? 
Silicone rubber is indeed tackier than latex, but latex will also stick in use, as it stays in contact, motionless, with the J-bar and insert (J and LJ pens). This can cause it to tear, as the sac will not slip when the filler is operated, stretching it in certain spots.
Use talc, and be generous. The talc will never get sticky (and cornstarch will in very damp weather -- and glue the sac to the J-bar!).
A nice coating of talc will also help prevent a petrifed sac becoming stuck on the sac protector on Sheaffer TD and Snorkel pens. I've been lucky, all the Snorks have let go of their sacs fairly easily (one was stuck with ink), but on the TD pens, the protector is usually plain steel instead of chrome plated brass, and the sac adheres badly. I've had to scrape most of them off.
Talc is also a must on the "inside" of Vacumatic diaphrams. If you don't put some in there, the diaphram is likely to drag on itself, and eventually start to knot up, then leak.
Peter
Use talc, and be generous. The talc will never get sticky (and cornstarch will in very damp weather -- and glue the sac to the J-bar!).
A nice coating of talc will also help prevent a petrifed sac becoming stuck on the sac protector on Sheaffer TD and Snorkel pens. I've been lucky, all the Snorks have let go of their sacs fairly easily (one was stuck with ink), but on the TD pens, the protector is usually plain steel instead of chrome plated brass, and the sac adheres badly. I've had to scrape most of them off.
Talc is also a must on the "inside" of Vacumatic diaphrams. If you don't put some in there, the diaphram is likely to drag on itself, and eventually start to knot up, then leak.
Peter
| QUOTE (dcjacobson @ Mar 20 2007, 10:48 AM) |
| Long ago I bought some talc. I have now replaced dozens and dozens of sacs, and I've not had one instance where I had to use it. So, try using nothing. If your sac is that tight, it may be too big for the pen. |
The use of talc has nothing to do with the fit of the sac. The talc serves two purposes:
- It provides a lubricated surface so that the pressure bar can move more easily. This makes filling smoother and more reliable, especially in pens like vintage Watermans and Conklins, whose pressure bars are free to slide for some distance along the length of the barrel. Cornstarch, which is hygroscopic, will tend to clump and resist the pressure bar's motion, making filling more difficult.
- It is hydrophobic. Unlike cornstarch, which is hygroscopic, it will neither attract nor absorb moisture; instead, it repels it. This means that it will not contribute to the tendency of metal parts, especially steel pressure bars and snap rings, to corrode.
Baby powder and dusting powders are all verboten IMHO, because they contain additives. Perfumes are mixed into the powder as oily liquids, and the oil used is a petrochemical. It will eat latex sacs. (Silicone appears to be impervious to it, but why take the risk?)
| QUOTE (Richard @ Mar 20 2007, 12:54 PM) |
| Baby powder and dusting powders are all verboten IMHO, because they contain additives. Perfumes are mixed into the powder as oily liquids, and the oil used is a petrochemical. It will eat latex sacs. (Silicone appears to be impervious to it, but why take the risk?) |
Uh-oh . . . I guess I won't worry about the baby powder on the silicon sacs, but will start looking for plain old talc, and clean and re-dust once I find it.
Thanks for all the great advice!
As far as finding pure talc - i'd check out tryphon or perhaps pendemonium (can't remember if they carry it or not) - I have never found any pure talc locally.
| QUOTE (HesNot @ Mar 20 2007, 05:32 PM) |
| As far as finding pure talc - i'd check out tryphon or perhaps pendemonium (can't remember if they carry it or not) - I have never found any pure talc locally. |
After doing a quick Google search, I see that NAPA carries it for dusting tires with. $6.99 for a pound of it. That ought to last a while . . .
The other places to check are dive shops and pool/billiards supply shops. I'm stunned that I can't find it in a pharmacy. Then again, pharmacies aren't what they used to be.
| QUOTE (Farace @ Mar 20 2007, 04:47 PM) |
| I'm stunned that I can't find it in a pharmacy. Then again, pharmacies aren't what they used to be. |
Pharmacies are getting away from real talc because of the respiratory problems it can cause (e.g. fibrosis over time, or respiratory failure if you inhale a load of it). Since you're resaccing pens, not working in a talc mine, it's probably not much of a worry, but be careful not to breathe it in.
I don't recall reading anything on the topic, but I'd worry (a little) about the oils in drugstore talcum powder soaking into celluloid and causing staining or other problems.
-- Brian
I work in a hospital pharmacy and we carry sterile talc for use in some surgical procedures, but it's getting more difficult to get it because of dwindling demand and not enough profit for manufacturer. I would guess most of the retail pharmacy won't have it.
I went to my local CVS pharmacy and was able to get more sterile talc than I will use in my lifetime for about $8.00, they had to order it in, but I got it the next day...
| QUOTE (OldGriz @ Mar 21 2007, 05:18 AM) |
| I went to my local CVS pharmacy and was able to get more sterile talc than I will use in my lifetime for about $8.00, they had to order it in, but I got it the next day... |
Yes, your fiendly pharmacist may be able to order it in even if they don't carry it
A billiards supply store will have more talc than you can imagine -- it's the white stuff people confuse with chalk many players like to put on their hands to the cue will slide easily.
Peter
Peter
| QUOTE (Farace @ Mar 20 2007, 09:47 PM) | ||
After doing a quick Google search, I see that NAPA carries it for dusting tires with. $6.99 for a pound of it. That ought to last a while . . . |
Though the product NAPA sells is called Tire Talc, it is probably not what the name implies.
The back of the can say "Contains CAS# 546-93-0" which, according to the National Institute for Occupational Saftety and Health's Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards, is Magnesite (magnesium carbonate). According to that same guide, pure talc is CAS# 14807-96-6, hydrous magnesium silicate. One difference I noted is that magnesite is reactive with acids and formaldehyde, while talc is non-reactive.
Does anyone know if tire talc (magnesite) is a suitable substitute for pure talc in pen sac use?
This is a bit of a rant....
As already stated by the more than extremely experienced restorers on FPN..
The recommendation is pure talc...
As I mentioned your local pharmacy can get you surgical grade pure talc and it is not expensive...
You can also purchase it from various online suppliers like Tryphon for about $1.50.
Please use what is recommended... if these experienced restorers thought that other forms of talc (or other materials) were suitable for use in pen repairs they would be using it and they would have told us to buy it.
They are not hiding any secret material they are using and don't want us to know about... they are telling us exactly what they have found to work after years of doing this work.
Why do some people need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a working model
As already stated by the more than extremely experienced restorers on FPN..
The recommendation is pure talc...
As I mentioned your local pharmacy can get you surgical grade pure talc and it is not expensive...
You can also purchase it from various online suppliers like Tryphon for about $1.50.
Please use what is recommended... if these experienced restorers thought that other forms of talc (or other materials) were suitable for use in pen repairs they would be using it and they would have told us to buy it.
They are not hiding any secret material they are using and don't want us to know about... they are telling us exactly what they have found to work after years of doing this work.
Why do some people need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a working model
| QUOTE (OldGriz @ Apr 1 2007, 04:23 PM) |
| Why do some people need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a working model |
My only reason is because I thought I could walk into a NAPA and get exactly what I need. I had no idea that "talc" isn't talc. I've asked for talc at the local pharmacies and they look at me funny. It's not like when I was in high school and worked at the local pharmacy (complete with lunch counter and soda fountain) and could buy oil of pennyroyal, sulfur, saltpeter, and all sorts of stuff you'd never find now. Those pharmacies are gone, at least around here. We now have chain stores, staffed by folks that are marginally better than your average Radio Shack employee (although I think that if you added all their IQs together, you'd still get change back from your dollar), that, when asked if something is in stock, look in exactly the same places you've already looked and come up with the same answer. So yeah, I guess it looks like I'll have to order it from somewhere like Tryphon (especially if I'll need something else anyway--I just today found a snorkel among my grandparents' stuff so I have to learn about those and presumably buy some parts); however I had hoped to do at least some of my purchasing locally and support local brick-and-mortar establishments, and also avoid the shipping charges, which lately have been almost as much as the cost of the item itself.
Bob, I bought a life time supply of surgical grade talk at my local CVS pharmacy (one of the largest chain store pharmacies)... all I did was ask the pharmacist to order it for me.
I knew better than the ask the idiots manning the shelves...
I knew better than the ask the idiots manning the shelves...
Tom, I guess my mistake was not asking the pharmacist. I've got a CVS within a five-minute walk of my house. (I still miss the old Clinton Pharmacy, though, where if you looked hard enough, you could probably find something that had been on the shelves since the 1920s.)
On the other hand, now that I've started researching what I'm going to have to do to rehab this Snorkel (a Statesman model?), I see I'm going to have to order some gaskets and O-rings anyway, so I may as well just add the talc to the order. I'm not in business (although I seem to have acquired a dozen FPs in a short period of time), so the "hundreds of pens" container that Tryphon sells should suffice for quite a while. (It turns out I also need talc for the belt on my old AR turntable, too.)
On the other hand, now that I've started researching what I'm going to have to do to rehab this Snorkel (a Statesman model?), I see I'm going to have to order some gaskets and O-rings anyway, so I may as well just add the talc to the order. I'm not in business (although I seem to have acquired a dozen FPs in a short period of time), so the "hundreds of pens" container that Tryphon sells should suffice for quite a while. (It turns out I also need talc for the belt on my old AR turntable, too.)
| QUOTE (OldGriz @ Apr 1 2007, 08:23 PM) |
| This is a bit of a rant.... As already stated by the more than extremely experienced restorers on FPN.. The recommendation is pure talc... As I mentioned your local pharmacy can get you surgical grade pure talc and it is not expensive... You can also purchase it from various online suppliers like Tryphon for about $1.50. |
One reason to ask these questions is, the answers we already have aren't always the only answers. New solutions are being found all the time and most of us learn by asking questions and experimenting. Seems to me, right here in this forum, someone (David Nishimura?) recently shared a new approach to a repair method everybody's been doing for years.
Perhaps things are different where you live, but where I live, Walgreens, Target and Wal-Mart have a lock on things. They can barely fill presciptions when all they have to do is punch it into a computer and wait for the automatic dispensers to put it in a bottle for them. It's nothing like the days when the pharmacist could/would compound/brew/mix tonic, elixirs and salves. Ask for talc and you get sent to the baby supplies or shaving supplies for Clubman talc.
If you need a bunch of things, and don't mind waiting a week or more, maybe an online seller like Tryphon is a good source; but, not if you need only one or two small items. If I need only talc, I'd rather walk into a NAPA store and pay $8 for a pound rather than for a pinch of talc and ridiculous shipping charges.
If we didn't ask questions and explore other options, we'd all be paying $18 plus $6 shipping for "Section Pliers" that are readily available at NAPA for $9.
One good rant deserves another - well, not really - BUT, if you don't like seeing these questions, skip 'em like the majority of us do when we see the things we think are drivel.
| QUOTE (lallin @ Apr 1 2007, 08:42 PM) | ||
One reason to ask these questions is, the answers we already have aren't always the only answers. New solutions are being found all the time and most of us learn by asking questions and experimenting. Seems to me, right here in this forum, someone (David Nishimura?) recently shared a new approach to a repair method everybody's been doing for years. Perhaps things are different where you live, but where I live, Walgreens, Target and Wal-Mart have a lock on things. They can barely fill presciptions when all they have to do is punch it into a computer and wait for the automatic dispensers to put it in a bottle for them. It's nothing like the days when the pharmacist could/would compound/brew/mix tonic, elixirs and salves. Ask for talc and you get sent to the baby supplies or shaving supplies for Clubman talc. If you need a bunch of things, and don't mind waiting a week or more, maybe an online seller like Tryphon is a good source; but, not if you need only one or two small items. If I need only talc, I'd rather walk into a NAPA store and pay $8 for a pound rather than for a pinch of talc and ridiculous shipping charges. If we didn't ask questions and explore other options, we'd all be paying $18 plus $6 shipping for "Section Pliers" that are readily available at NAPA for $9. One good rant deserves another - well, not really - BUT, if you don't like seeing these questions, skip 'em like the majority of us do when we see the things we think are drivel. |
Lallin,
I never said the question was drivel...
BUT, the question was answered by at least one of the finest restorers in the business...
It was explained why you should use the type of talc recommended..
I also mentioned that CVS pharmacy, which is probably one of the largest chains in the US, can get it... if they can so can Walgreens.
I live in Western MD cow country... out in the boonies and had no problem getting it.
As for insane shipping costs, you have never dealt with Tryphon, I assume. He charges exactly what the USPS charges him to ship, nothing more...
I never said not to ask questions and explore options... but in this case the question was answered and the reasons given.
My rant was not strictly directed at the question asked here... I see it all the time. A respected restorer will give us the answers and even tell us how to do the work... and at least 2-3 people will jump on with a way that is either harder or will damage the pen... I have seen too many pens ruined by people who do not want to follow the directions or decided that they know better....
Let's keep it nice guys......
Neither Richard nor I, nor any other restorer that I know of, can possibly know everything. But we do have the benefit of having our fingers on a lot more pens than most people on the board.
The truth is that we often challenge each other on an approach - or surprise the other with an insight. That's why it's fun to get together to talk with Richard, or Joel, or Sherrel, or Lynn Sorgatz, or Rick Propas.... As for David Nishimura..... He might appear to be "just another guy" to relatively new people on the board, but he's one of the more knowlegable restorers out there. When David bothers to post, I shut up and listen! (and Lord knows that's hard for me to do!).
(edited to correct the spelling error that I caught.......)
Neither Richard nor I, nor any other restorer that I know of, can possibly know everything. But we do have the benefit of having our fingers on a lot more pens than most people on the board.
The truth is that we often challenge each other on an approach - or surprise the other with an insight. That's why it's fun to get together to talk with Richard, or Joel, or Sherrel, or Lynn Sorgatz, or Rick Propas.... As for David Nishimura..... He might appear to be "just another guy" to relatively new people on the board, but he's one of the more knowlegable restorers out there. When David bothers to post, I shut up and listen! (and Lord knows that's hard for me to do!).
(edited to correct the spelling error that I caught.......)
Where else can you get spirited debate over talcum powder?????
Gotta love this board!!
Buzz
Gotta love this board!!
Buzz
Buzz,
That's indeed what we are all talcing about.....
Joe
That's indeed what we are all talcing about.....
Joe
I live in Toronto, Canada and I read this debate this afternoon - on a whim I wandered over to my neighbourhood chain (Rexall) and asked about surgical grade talc. The pharmacist consulted her computer for a minute and pronounced the solution to my query was the 250 g size bottle for $6 CDN, which she would order and have in tomorrow. I figure that should do me for the rest of my natural life... maybe longer? What would my children think of me leaving them my bottle of talc.... 
Man, I can't believe getting all hot under the collar over talc! Take it easy, guys, it's just pens! Anyway, talc sucks. If you want slippery, just use some KY jelly. You all have a big tube of that in the old medicine cabinet, don't you?
Good response Ron. Some times we all need to be reminded that there are degrees of knowledge, but absolute knowledge/authority is pretty hard to achieve. While on the search for that goal, it's wise to remember that we all are learning.
For my part, I'd like to see that this particular forum retain its non-critical tone, and just offer advice based on experience that each of us may have. There are no stupid questions, except those that are unasked, but critical responses tend to suppress questions, and we all lose the opportunity to perhaps learn something new.
So, to those of you out there who feel the need to *correct* people and their ideas, please do so in a manner within the spirit of the FPN so that all may become enlightened by the dialogue, rather than be discouraged from inquiring.
By the way, this is not in response to any particular post, just an observation based on a large number of posts, and various outcomes I've observed as both a moderator and administrator over the last year or so.
Regards,
Gerry
For my part, I'd like to see that this particular forum retain its non-critical tone, and just offer advice based on experience that each of us may have. There are no stupid questions, except those that are unasked, but critical responses tend to suppress questions, and we all lose the opportunity to perhaps learn something new.
So, to those of you out there who feel the need to *correct* people and their ideas, please do so in a manner within the spirit of the FPN so that all may become enlightened by the dialogue, rather than be discouraged from inquiring.
By the way, this is not in response to any particular post, just an observation based on a large number of posts, and various outcomes I've observed as both a moderator and administrator over the last year or so.
Regards,
Gerry
The white "chalk" use on the hands in billards (pool) is pure talc, and available at all places that supply billards stuff. Might even find it at Walmart, who knows.
The point, of course, is to keep the sac from sticking to the J-bar or sac protector (or anything else) to keep it from tearing prematurely. I've been lucky, only one or two pens I've gotten has had a sticky sac (one Vacumatic "51" and one lever filler), but they were enough of a pain I don't intend to use anything that might cause the sac to get stuck to things.
Peter
The point, of course, is to keep the sac from sticking to the J-bar or sac protector (or anything else) to keep it from tearing prematurely. I've been lucky, only one or two pens I've gotten has had a sticky sac (one Vacumatic "51" and one lever filler), but they were enough of a pain I don't intend to use anything that might cause the sac to get stuck to things.
Peter
I don't know how well it would work, but bowling powder is generally soapstone, which is talc, chlorite, and sometimes magnetite. (needless to say, my chemistry is far behind me, so I don't know what that would do when damp)
QUOTE(Taki @ Mar 21 2007, 06:51 AM) [snapback]258092[/snapback]
QUOTE(OldGriz @ Mar 21 2007, 05:18 AM)
I went to my local CVS pharmacy and was able to get more sterile talc than I will use in my lifetime for about $8.00, they had to order it in, but I got it the next day...
Yes, your fiendly pharmacist may be able to order it in even if they don't carry it
Just curious; was the dropping of the r and turning the pharmacist from friend to fiend intentional, or Freudian?
I have known both types.Donnie
QUOTE(Farace @ Apr 1 2007, 04:54 PM) [snapback]265232[/snapback]
Tom, I guess my mistake was not asking the pharmacist. I've got a CVS within a five-minute walk of my house. (I still miss the old Clinton Pharmacy, though, where if you looked hard enough, you could probably find something that had been on the shelves since the 1920s.)
On the other hand, now that I've started researching what I'm going to have to do to rehab this Snorkel (a Statesman model?), I see I'm going to have to order some gaskets and O-rings anyway, so I may as well just add the talc to the order. I'm not in business (although I seem to have acquired a dozen FPs in a short period of time), so the "hundreds of pens" container that Tryphon sells should suffice for quite a while. (It turns out I also need talc for the belt on my old AR turntable, too.)
On the other hand, now that I've started researching what I'm going to have to do to rehab this Snorkel (a Statesman model?), I see I'm going to have to order some gaskets and O-rings anyway, so I may as well just add the talc to the order. I'm not in business (although I seem to have acquired a dozen FPs in a short period of time), so the "hundreds of pens" container that Tryphon sells should suffice for quite a while. (It turns out I also need talc for the belt on my old AR turntable, too.)
I find it fascinating the number of fp afficionados who also own turntables. By any chance do you use a tube preamp and/or poweramp to amplify your classic (seriously, not sarcastically or sardonically) AR turntable?
Donnie
QUOTE(OldGriz @ Apr 1 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]265196[/snapback]
This is a bit of a rant....
Why do some people need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a working model
Why do some people need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a working model
Because sometimes progress can be made by trying new things. Because sometimes the "field expedient" works better than the tried-and-true. Because some people are true amateurs whose first rule is to "never give a pro an even break".
Paddler
QUOTE(Paddler @ Jul 29 2007, 12:58 PM) [snapback]340738[/snapback]
QUOTE(OldGriz @ Apr 1 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]265196[/snapback]
This is a bit of a rant....
Why do some people need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a working model
Why do some people need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a working model
Because sometimes progress can be made by trying new things. Because sometimes the "field expedient" works better than the tried-and-true. Because some people are true amateurs whose first rule is to "never give a pro an even break".
Paddler
In this case we are not talking about "trying new things" we are talking about the established pros who have been doing this for years and have tested just about every thing they can think of and of course continue to test new things....
When someone like Richard Binder or Ron Zorn tell me to use or not to use a certain material (and I have asked about "new stuff") I can pretty much be sure that they are tried it and found it lacking in some way or in some cases even dangerous to pens..
As for "never give a pro an even break", if that is their attitude, their pens deverve whatever happens to them...
For me I will stick with the advise the pros give me, and at one time I was a "true amateur"....
QUOTE(Nihontochicken @ Apr 3 2007, 01:11 AM) [snapback]265977[/snapback]
Man, I can't believe getting all hot under the collar over talc! Take it easy, guys, it's just pens! Anyway, talc sucks. If you want slippery, just use some KY jelly. You all have a big tube of that in the old medicine cabinet, don't you? 
Noooooooo! Not the Kentucky Jelly!
Paddler
QUOTE(donwinn @ Jul 29 2007, 01:23 AM) [snapback]340556[/snapback]
I find it fascinating the number of fp afficionados who also own turntables. By any chance do you use a tube preamp and/or poweramp to amplify your classic (seriously, not sarcastically or sardonically) AR turntable?
Donnie
Donnie
No, I realize you're not being sarcastic. I don't have a working tube amp at the moment (using an old Kenwood receiver), but I have an old Fisher tube amp in the garage that I've been meaning to rehab. (And most of my guitar/bass amps have tubes.)
Re: crossover, I've seen an amazing amount of crossover lately between aficianados of fountain pens, wetshaving, and rangefinder cameras. Each forum I visit seems to have mention of the others.
QUOTE
I find it fascinating the number of fp afficionados who also own turntables. By any chance do you use a tube preamp and/or poweramp to amplify your classic (seriously, not sarcastically or sardonically) AR turntable?
Donnie
Donnie
Oh you nasty person you! I went into the Smithsonian one time and walked into a display with vintage audio equipment - I turned to my wife and said "I own, or have owned every pice in that display." That included teh AR-3 speakers.
I think I've had all of the Dynaco tuners and amps made at one time or another, tube and solid state. I had an FM-3 tuner and PAS-3X with a stereo 70 for a long time (preamp and tuner bought in high school from the original owner). I still have my AR turntable, my Dynaco speakers (the big ones) a Harmon-Kardon 430 receiver, driving AR 5 and/or Bose 901 speakers (different rooms) with a Sony direct drive turntable and a Shure V-15 cartridge, in the studio a Pioneer receiver and Advent Minis. I'm looking for a way to go back to the Dynaco speakers though - absolutely wonderful to listen to.
Vintage audio can sound wonderful. I've never had a better receiver than the Harmon-Kardon.
At the risk of fanning the flames, one reason to ask questions about things like tire talc is, access. Though oldgriz may have CVS to make his life easy, I don't. I do have tire talc in my workshop at all times because of my other interests (bicycling and my '55 Imperial).
After being chastised way back in this thread, I decided to go to Walgreens, which is the dominant chain here. After two trips to the baby supply aisles, on the recommendation of the pharmacist, I visited another Walgreens - same result "if we have it it will be in that aisel". Walgreens number 3, "we don't carry it but we can order it"; 3 days later when I go to pick it up "sorry, we can't get it, our suppliers don't carry it anymore". In the mean time, I have a nearly full can of tire talc sitting at home and I have 3 bike shops in walking distance of my home and 2 more I pass on my way to just about anywhere.
After a half-dozen calls to small pharmacies in the metropolitan area, I finally found one willing, and able, to supply pure talc. So, I now have a can of pure talc sitting next to the tire talc. I decided to conduct an experiment; every Inkograph I restore for my collection is being assembled with tire talc - I'll get back to you in a few years with results. In the meantime, I really don't think I'm taking much risk - because both talcs are there to lube and protect rubber.
After being chastised way back in this thread, I decided to go to Walgreens, which is the dominant chain here. After two trips to the baby supply aisles, on the recommendation of the pharmacist, I visited another Walgreens - same result "if we have it it will be in that aisel". Walgreens number 3, "we don't carry it but we can order it"; 3 days later when I go to pick it up "sorry, we can't get it, our suppliers don't carry it anymore". In the mean time, I have a nearly full can of tire talc sitting at home and I have 3 bike shops in walking distance of my home and 2 more I pass on my way to just about anywhere.
After a half-dozen calls to small pharmacies in the metropolitan area, I finally found one willing, and able, to supply pure talc. So, I now have a can of pure talc sitting next to the tire talc. I decided to conduct an experiment; every Inkograph I restore for my collection is being assembled with tire talc - I'll get back to you in a few years with results. In the meantime, I really don't think I'm taking much risk - because both talcs are there to lube and protect rubber.
Here - maybe we can put this one to bed.
http://www.myerstiresupply.com/answer/msds.html
Go to the second MSDS sheet for 'tire talc'. (the first one doesn't have the chemical composition)
It turns out that tire talc should be perfectly acceptible for a replacement for standard talc. It's a ground mica/silica/quartz powder compound. It's non-flammable, non-reactive, and is indicated for repeated rubber contact.
Theoretically, it could grind down your pen faster than talc (dehydrated magnesium silicate) because of being harder, but other than that, it's no problem. They recommend a respirator if you're going to use it a lot, but regular talc has that as well.
I wouldn't slap it on a baby's bottom, but they're saying not to use regular talcum powder for that either, mainly because of inhalation issues. (I'm going to skip the whole 'CAUSES CANCER' scare stuff, as the quantities we're talking about aren't even likely to be an issue if it's true)
http://www.myerstiresupply.com/answer/msds.html
Go to the second MSDS sheet for 'tire talc'. (the first one doesn't have the chemical composition)
It turns out that tire talc should be perfectly acceptible for a replacement for standard talc. It's a ground mica/silica/quartz powder compound. It's non-flammable, non-reactive, and is indicated for repeated rubber contact.
Theoretically, it could grind down your pen faster than talc (dehydrated magnesium silicate) because of being harder, but other than that, it's no problem. They recommend a respirator if you're going to use it a lot, but regular talc has that as well.
I wouldn't slap it on a baby's bottom, but they're saying not to use regular talcum powder for that either, mainly because of inhalation issues. (I'm going to skip the whole 'CAUSES CANCER' scare stuff, as the quantities we're talking about aren't even likely to be an issue if it's true)
Talc is pretty easy to get--almost everyone that sells sacs also sells talc.
Since you have to order sacs to restore pens . . .
Todd
Since you have to order sacs to restore pens . . .
Todd
The Pen Sac company - http://www.pensac.com - does not offer talc for sale.
I am curious,
Some many have tried baby powder as talc source. Baby powder is composed of 99% talc (according to MSDS sheets), so probably around 1% fragrance. The amount of baby powder that would be used would be used is very small. I would estimate around 0.1 (or less) gram. So the quantity of fragrance would be around 0.001 gram. So lets say fragrance is pure oil. We would have 0.001 gram of oil. This 0.001 gram would be spread on an area of 12.47 square cm. This means a concentration of oil of 0.00008 g/cm2 or 0.08 microgram/cm2.
So in theory it will eat the sac but with that quantity spread accross the surface what would be the time frame? 1 month, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years?
Some many have tried baby powder as talc source. Baby powder is composed of 99% talc (according to MSDS sheets), so probably around 1% fragrance. The amount of baby powder that would be used would be used is very small. I would estimate around 0.1 (or less) gram. So the quantity of fragrance would be around 0.001 gram. So lets say fragrance is pure oil. We would have 0.001 gram of oil. This 0.001 gram would be spread on an area of 12.47 square cm. This means a concentration of oil of 0.00008 g/cm2 or 0.08 microgram/cm2.
So in theory it will eat the sac but with that quantity spread accross the surface what would be the time frame? 1 month, 1 year, 5 years, 10 years?
QUOTE(Ron Z @ Jul 29 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]340880[/snapback]
QUOTE
I find it fascinating the number of fp afficionados who also own turntables. By any chance do you use a tube preamp and/or poweramp to amplify your classic (seriously, not sarcastically or sardonically) AR turntable?
Donnie
Donnie
Oh you nasty person you! I went into the Smithsonian one time and walked into a display with vintage audio equipment - I turned to my wife and said "I own, or have owned every pice in that display." That included teh AR-3 speakers.
I'm listening to my AR-3a speakers right now. I found them on the curb about five years ago with the obligatory rotted woofer foam. I rehabbed them and I've been enjoying them ever since!
--Daniel
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