I've developed some interest in the "51" after reading the posts here. Never thought I'd be interested in a vintage pen, but I'm quite impressed by the rave reviews about this pen. I've done some homework but have a few questions:

1) I'm having a hard time visualizing the size of the pen. Does anyone have pix of theirs next to a Sonnet or an M800 for size reference. My Sonnet is just about the smallest pen I like in terms of size.

2) Does the Aerometric require any special attention above and beyone normal flushing that I already do?

3) I can't say that I know enough to avoid getting scammed on an auction site. Is it best that I purchase from an actual pen dealer so I know I'm actually getting the model adverstised? Any dealers suggestions would be helpful.

4) I won't even ask price range...because I know it depends on vintage, condition etc.

5) Any inks that I should completely avoid? I'm mostly a Noodler, PR user.

Thank you...thank you
Bob

Aeros tend to be pretty bullet proof, but an old one still often needs restoration (will fill, but often will not write well).

Aeros have fewer high cost variants than early Vac Fill pens, but there are a few that get up there in value.

The standard pen is about 5 3/8-5 1/2" long and fairly streamlined. The nice sized hood or gripping section area makes it fairly comfortable.

Retail for clean restored pens tends to run $100+

Restoration tends to run $25+ though again many old ones will fill and even perhaps write ok.

Worn raw ones can be tracked down for $40 or so, but often with dings which substantially affect collectability, though not usability.

regards

david i

I would characterize a "51" as a medium pen. Somewhat larger than a standard modern ballpoint, but not a large pen.

Unless the body is cracked on a vac or the hood is mangled on an aerometric, they are completely restorable, don't be shy of getting a bargain on eBay (I just missed on last night for $18.00), but be aware that you do run the risk of getting one in bad shape.

More typically they go around $30 to $50 plus shipping for standard Lustraloy (stainless steel) cap black or burgundy on eBay -- other colors and caps will go for more, sometimes much more. They all write the same, so if you are looking for a pen to write with, one with dents in the cap, a scratch from a loose clip, or a missing cap jewel and scratched barrel will be a lot cheaper and work exactly like a Presidential.

I have not had any problem using any ink in a "51" that has been properly cleaned -- if you just fill one found "in the wild" it will likely have a large amount of dried up ink in it, and will give you fits. They really should be cleaned out, and many early aerometric fillers have silver breather tubes that are badly corroded, causing poor filling and flow problems.

Do be careful, "51"s are rather desirable pens, and bidding wars are common -- I've seen a battered Special go for upwards of $60, grossly overpriced, on the same day a cocoa "51" went for $27.....

I have also found a couple with rather severe nib wear, making them cranky to write with, but replacment nibs are available, and usually you can fix even worn ones well enough.

Nice, if rather non-flashy pens. Very utilitarian, which of course was the purpose in the design. Have a care, they are addictive....

Peter

I'd go with the advice here from the two folk above.
"51"'s I've found are long lasting and reliable. The sacs are not rubber so tend not to perish. I got four on ebay for around equivalent of $55. "Brand new" never used ones can go from $250 to $300. If you get one on ebay or look on FPN Marketplace you can at least try then pen and see if you even like it. As for geting scammed look at a few pics to see what real ones look like and try to read between the lines on descriptions.
According to a post here "51"'s are popular but ten a penny. Follow a few auctions to see the prices they go for without bidding, decide how much you would like to pay then go for one or two. Give it a couple or so weeks and some patince and you ought to find a bargain.

Armchop

Here's my experience, but it was on unrestored, as is, pens. And the lot received was as advertised. It had nice pictures of the pens and the seller knew knew the names of the pens, so it was not one of those blurred pictures, bad description, quick buck making listings.

Recently, I ebayed a lot of FPs, and I got two lusteroy cap on black aero, with blue diamond clips. The entire lot was about $70 (for 8 total pens), but it also had a clipless Sheaffer Tuckaway, a 45, an Estie J, and a Hunt Superball. The Aeros filled nicely, wrote well in the beginning after filling but tapered off after that, and that was with PR and Aurora inks. The sac looks ok, but I suspect that the tube needs to be replaced (after reading up on the problem). Once I get enough money together, the 51s, the Tuckaway and a bent nib 146 MB (don't ask) will be sent to a Nibmeister. In retrospect, I could have just spent my money on a working, restored 51 from the Marketplace.

I'd probably have a look at the Marketplace here or the Green Board on Pentrace. At least you are buying from reputable people.

Might be possible to pry one loose from OldGriz - The Great White Shark of Ebay.
Note - he should be addressed as Your Majesty

By and large you'll probably have less trouble with an aero but be warned: these things are Highly Addictive.

BTW:
"51" 5mm longer than Sonnet (capped and uncapped)
Almost identical posted
Girth at barrel/section join is almost identical *

Be sure to let us know what you got

Regards,
Ruaidhrí

* Rough measurements with a ruler from what I had to hand - a chiselle Sonnet & a GF "51". Couldn't find the ### vernier

Thank you all. I'm inclined to spend a few bucks more to get something refurbished rather than take a chance on something only to find it is in need of lots of work.

Bob

here's two now:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=27442
(PS go for the black with GF cap. They look really nice. I have on in Maroon.)
Armchop

If you don't want to mess around with restoring a pen, buy from a decent seller here, or Pentrace or a reputable seller on Ebay (there are a number that sell restored pens for resonable prices).

I know many people here say "most Aero 51s need nothing more than a good soak and rinse to work" but I have not found that to be the case. The ones I have gotten all needed to have their hoods taken off to scrub the collector free of gunk - probably old dried super-chrome ink. That said it really is not too hard to clean them up and takes no special parts or tools.

Once restored you can't get a better writer, however.

John

Thanks, Armchop. Hopefully I got to it in time.

The price is quite reasonable considering the one commercial (pen shop) website I checked wanted 3 times that!!!

Bob

Not unless someone did considerable custom manufacturing, it didn't -- not the same at all.

There are Frankenpens out there, but with a "51" it would be hard to tell unless the colors were distinctly unmatched.

Once you get a "51" you will understand the attraction of vintage pens. Ditto for a Sheaffer Snorkel in good shape -- those two pens are probably as good as FP ever got. Not particularly flashy, (the Trimph nib Snorks are much glitzier than "51"s), but they were designed to write effortlessly day after day after week after month after year after decade, and do. I think Sheaffers have a slight edge for smoothness, but that may be my personal writing style. Some Parkers have worn nibs, too, and I've not seen that on Sheaffers -- an indication of the amount of use they got.

Peter

Some experiences from someone who is relatively new to 51's. I have 3 - all are vacumatics - Cedar Blue extra fine point, Dove Gray fine point, and a Black medium point. The first one (Cedar Blue) I bought For $45 from a pen repairer/restorer from the market place. When I got the pen it leaked and would not write for more than one page. The person I bought it from gladly accepted it back, repaired it for no charge and returned it to me (I later figured out that I was probably the culprit - that I disassembled it too far and disengaged the sac). The second pen was the Black one - I bought it off of ebay for $56. It said it had been professionally restored (whatever that means and who did the restoration I have no idea). The last one (Dove gray) I bought from a well known nib meister for $100. It was professionally restored and the nib adjusted to assure smoothness and good flow.

All 3 pens are excellent. I could not have gotten the service I got on the first pen from an ebay buyer. An unrestored/not working 51 would be totally useless to me. Did I get lucky on ebay - probably (the body, cap, clip, jewel, etc on the ebay pen is actually the best of the group).

Bottom line - if you really want to see what a good 51 is all about - buy from a trusted source - preferably a nib meister and/or 51 expert, and there are several who frequent these boards.

Good Luck and let us know what you end up with.

I've got three "51"s - all bought from the marketplace or green board. My Vac was purchased from a reliable seller and restorer - it's a Canadian in cedar blue, and it writes predictably quite well. My flighter I bought from a dealer - unrestored and well used. A thorough flushing was all it took to write exceptionally well to this day. I bought a maroon aero from another hobbyist, unrepaired and repair condition unknown for $35. The nib is very smooth and it worked for awhile but started hiccuping a bit and upon disassembly the feeder was clean as a whistle but the breather tube had corroded completely and was slowly throwing off bits and pieces. Cleaned it up and am in the process of replacing the breather tube...

So the $35 pen was a bargain, it is user grade with a few flea bites and some wear on the lustralloy cap but it has been a solid writer. Had I experienced issues up front I'd have had to send it away as I had not figured out how to take a "51" apart at that point - it's still more of a pain to repair than you might think since the breather tube broke off cleanly at the feed and replacement tubing is available but in fairly large quantities (unless you're one of the repair guys who use surgical tubing and a custom jig to drill the hole - and i'm not quite there yet). Thankfully another FPNer is sending me a bit of David's teflon tubing for my small repair.

The moral of that story is, however, to echo much of what has been said. IF you buy a pen on ebay - even an aero - expect as a part of your bid price to add another sum to get it restored. Compare that against the cost of a pen from a restorer, and there are plenty of them around who sell regularly on the marketplace, and I think you'll find that the few extra dollars you spend with a dealer here will be money well spent in terms of time and aggravation. Particularly with your first pen. OldGriz, smbaugh spring to mind as guys who list restored "51"s with some regularity - you might even just PM or email them to see if they have any around.

Thanks again everyone. I was fortunate enough that one of the previous posters pointed me toward a post in the marketplace and I've purchased my first "51." I'll post pix when it arrives. The price was Very reasonable compared to what my local shop wants and even if it needs some repairs (and it doesn't sound that way!) I'll still be ahead of the game.

Now I have to read up on filling, cleaning and the like.

Thanks again.

Bob