HI -- I'm back from a 10-day business trip of no-stop meetings in various locations in the US. I work for a large corporation so most of my meetings are with "corporate-types" (I guess I could be called one also). In these meetings I always look around the room to see what pens people are using. These usually fall into two categories: Whatever they've pulled from the office supply cabinet, or, the familiar black pen with a white star on top (not a knock -- my MB149 and MB146 are among my favorites). Then I found the exception to the norm: one gentleman in the San Fransicso meeting had two pen cases filled with what appeared to be all Italian pens. I approached him on the break and we got talking -- he was in fact a huge collector of Italian pens (these conversations make the meetings much more interesting). He had Aurora, Stipula, Delta, and Montegrappa pens with him. Then he peaked my interest further raving about a pen that he owned but did not bring with him - A Nettuno Superba - which he claims has been discontinued.

He then peaked my interest even further by saying he owned two Superbas and would be interested in trading one of them for a visconti wall street celluloid. Guess what -- I have one of those, and I also am looking to trade it.

Long story short -- I know nothing about Nettuno and nothing about the Superba model -- not what they look like or how good they are. I've tried to run a search here and on Google but did not come up with anything.

Does anyone have a picture they can post, and can anyone offer any comments about how good (or not) these pens are..............

Thanks ..........

Edited to remove completely mis-leading information!

Sorry!

Dan

I think perhaps Dan is thinking of the Stipula Suprema which appears to be the next evolutionary step from the 22.

Nettuno was an old pen maker in Italy. Nettuno's modern history is convoluted with both Stipula and Delta using the name. The name itself is/was owned by Firma SRL in Italy. The provenance of the current company called Nettuno is not known to me.

In any event, the Superba was not made by the current Nettuno but by Stipula, which made the pen in 1996 in a limited run of 991 pieces - A very good reproduction of the vintage model. which originally came out in 1936. The run sold out fairly quickly. A few Superbas have shown up subsequently at auctions and pen shows but I don't recall the prices.

For a picture, you can see a version of the vintage Superba here:
http://www.giardino.it/pens/nettuno/_history.htm

The modern variant is also made of celluloid and I think looks like this one:
http://www.pens.it/pens.htm?stipula/_boboli.htm

I would hazard a guess that the trade is OK. The Superba is the more interesting pen especially with Visconti bringing out additional Wall Street models.

Jeff--

Thanks for catching that, all bad info--next time, no posting until after the second cup of coffee!

Sorry! Dan

Jeff and Dan -- Thank you both. I was able to see the original vintage pen in the first link. The second link took me to Giardino di Boboli's website but could not find the Superba -- is it the green pen that appears when the website first opens?

Interesting development -- just reveived an e:mail from the gentleman I met informing that he also has an amber-colored Stipula Etruria that is also available for the trade....hmmmm??

To clarify my previous ambiguous statement -

The second link was just to show a pen where the celluloid appears similar to that used for the Superba. The pen does not otherwise resemble the Superba in design. The Superba itself is no longer displayed.

It's possible that I may have mixed up the celluloid of the Superba and the Idra so don't be surprised if all of this was for naught.

Got it Jeff --- Thanks again
Mag

In the 1990's, Stipula made two LE's based on Nettuno pens of the early 20th Century. One was the Nettuno "Idra," the other was the Nettuno "Superba." The Fountain Pen Hospital used to have photos of both pens on their web site. (No affiliation.) Otherwise Google the name and see what you get. (Stipula Nettuno Idra; Stipula Nettuno Superba)

Both LE's were made with lovely moss green celluloid. (The recent Giardino Italiano LE, the "Giardino di Boboli" is very similar to the "Idra" LE in size and quality of celluloid.) The sizes were quite different. The "Idra" is about Pelikan M-400 size, but it has a great large nib almost M-800 size that is springy and smooth with a good ink flow. The "Superba" is about M-600 size, and has a nib more proportionate to the size. The Superba nib is even springier than the Idra. I hesitate to say the Superba nib is flex, but is has a quality to the metal that I have only seen in vintage pens.

The LE numbers on both pens were small. I absolutely love both my Idra and Superba, and I jumped at the chance to have a di Boboli. If you have a chance to swap a Wall Street LE for a Superba, I would say do it! The quality of the Superba just can't be beat. - Personal opinion, of course.

I just confirmed that The Fountain Pen Hospital has photos of both pens. On FPH's site, click "Linited Editions," then search Stipula. The photos give you some idea of how the pens look, but no idea of the good quality of the celluloid.

I've been interested in this pen for awhile too, and wanted to see it person, but alas they are no longer made. It appears to be a very nice pen. What is the filling system on the Superba?

I've nothing to offer by way of wisdom, but something in Dan's reply jumped out at me

Frank -- just located it at fountain pen hospital -- beautiful pen. --- Thank you for all your help
Mag

Frank
Wonder if I can get your thoughts on the Stipula Etruria. The gentleman is offering the Superba but also a large size amber Stipula Etruria with a piston-fill mechanism. I think your view in clear on the Superba, but how do you feel about the Etruria? Which would you pick if you were in my shoes.
Thanks again for the help.
Mag

Oh, Lord, don't do that to me!!! I LOVE the oversize Etrurias and I have several of them. The Etruria is a larger pen than the Superba, and the shape is different from the Superba. The pens feel different in my hand, although both are very nice. The Etruria nibs are larger than the Superba and write well, but the Superba has the distinctive vintage feel.

One thing that would drive my decision would be rarity. You will be able to get an Etruria, new or used, for years to come. There were something like 911 Superba pens made, period. Most folks who have them are keeping them because they are collectable pens that are also excellent writers. Mine will not be available until the day after my funeral, and I am not alone. You would be able to resell the Superba probably very quickly, although I cannot imagine doing so. As we speak, I think Novelli pens (in Rome) is looking to buy such pens at a premium for collectors. (Usual disclaimers of affiliation.)

As I said, I love Etrurias, but in this case I would get the Superba. - And an Etruria later. The only problem with the Superba will be that about 30-days after getting it you will start sniffing around for an Irda, which is ever rarer.

Frank thanks -- I am off on another business trip but I believe he will send me both to choose -- maybe I will get both. Will keep you posted on what I do.
Thanks again
Mag

Hey Frank

Just got back from business trip. Both the Etruria and the Superba had arrived. I took them both out because I could not wait. Too exhausted to ink them and try them out, but here are first impressions from just handling both pens

Superba felt timmer and more comfortable in my hand --- much lighter, but also felt a little flimsey -- less quality build. There was a note with it indicating that he had removed the sac and was just using the converter. (Just a thought -- how would I ever get a replacement converter if I needed to)

Etruria -- much more substantial feel -- bigger -- less comfortable, but also felt like a better quality build.

Will ink them both tomorrow in my office and give you my impressions.

Thanks

Mag

At least you have them both in your hands and you are able to start making a personal assessment. I think you have a rare, wonderful opportunity that many people would envy. Enjoy the trials.

I have to admit I can see no difference in build quality between the pens, but I also admit I love my Superba. I hope yours has the vintage feel that I love so much - that semi-flex character that is so hard to find in modern pens.

I have been using mine with a converter, too. I have the sac in the original box which is stored, but I think I can find it. I would imagine Stipula could provide you with a replacement ink sac, though I have no idea at what cost.

I am interested in your opinion of the comparison between the two pens.

Message to FREELOADER

David -- I tried several time to reply to you PM but when I try to send it simply will not go -- I don't know what I am doing wrong. Please reply in the forum to let me know if you've received it.

Thanks
Mag

Here goes my first impressions of the Superba and the Etruria. I inked them both with Waterman Florida Blue with a little South Seas Blue added in (4FB to 1SSB). Let me just say this is no easy decision - at this point I can't decide which one I want (which usually means I will end up with both)

SUPERBA: Clearly a vintage feel to the pen and the writing experience which can grow to a very personal experience over time -- I can see how this pen can become very special. Very light weight - to a point of almost feeling a little fragile -- I would probably not take this pen to tough situations like long business trips involving many meetings. The ink flow is a little dry - not as free flowing as I like, with swift long strokes ending up with almost no ink. The pen barely writes if I only use the pens weight. The converter always fills up with air bubbles and never completely fills up, leaving a small air pocket no matter how many times I empty and refill it (any suggestions how to fix this??). I actually tried a waterman converter but would not fit when I screwed the bottom back on. Buttery smooth nib, which could even be better if the ink flow was better. A wonderful overall feel to pen.

ETRURIA: No vintage feel to the pen, and a slightly "colder" feel to it. A more sturdy and heavier pen almost on par with the feel/weight of a MB146 or Pelikan M800. I feel more comfortable using this pen as a bit of a "workhorse". The combination of length and width make it less comfortable for me than the Superba. The nib is not quite as buttery as the superba. The ink flow on the other hand is amazing --- I can write at any speed with just the weight of the pen and the ink keeps up 100%.

In sum, with the Etruria, each individual aspect of the pen scores a little higher than the Superba. But, the overall writing experience is just more personal with the Superba -- I just wish the ink flow was a little better. Said another way, with the Superba its clearly a case of the "whole being greater than the sum of the parts".

I will keep both for about another week and see how things develop. I will also try Waterman blue/black ink to see how that works. At this point, I just can't decide, but if you hold a gun to my head -- I would go with the Superba --- I love that personal/vintage feel to the pen.

Will keep you posted

Mag

David

I also tried e:mail but I guess that did not go through. Will figure it out later -- I am still learning how to use all the tools. In any case, here are my comments on the Visconti Wall Street.

I owned the Wall Street Celulloid in Blue, which was a cartridge / converter and not a piston fill. Mine had the metal nib section, unlike the limited edition which is all celulloid and piston fill.

The pen was flawless all around -- great workmanship, great nib, and very good ink flow -- one of the better writers in my collection. The nib was also somewhat felixble which is a good thing. My only issue was the comfort and the way it fit and felt in my hand when I wrote. I realize that comfort is a very personal experience, and the pen may feel just perfect in someone else's hand. It took me a long time to decide to trade it simply because I like everything about it -- other than fit and comfort. If you are interested in it you should definitely give it a try -- and if it feels "right" then you've got a winner, because the pen itself is terriffic. One added benefit of the Viscontis is that their nibs screw in, so should you wish to change the nib, or have two diferrent ones, you can do that yourself. I own three other Visconti's from the 90's and they are try great pens.

Good luck

Mag

Thanks Mag!

I am glad you have had some opportunity to try the two pens. If you end up with both, that is an ideal situation in my book.

I have not had the flow issues you are having with the Superba. Probably an ink flow adjustment is in order. Yes, the pen is smaller than the Etruria, I thibnk about Pel M-600 size. But I find it a very interesting pen. That vintage spring or flex in the nib really catches my attention.

The Etruria is a comfortable pen for me. I think I commented it is on a par with the MB 146, the Pel M-800 and the Duofold Centennial. The nice big nib has a feel of its own that I really like.

Anyway, I hope you continue to enjoy trying the pens. Please let us know what you decide.

Frank

I forgot to ask what ink you use in your Superba.............

Mag

In my Superba I have been using Pelikan brilliant brown or MB burgundy. Both have flowed very well.

Frank -- brief update

I soaked the nib section of the Superba overnight in an amonia and water solution and also flossed the nib. This was the second time. But I also worked the nib a little by applying some gently pressure to the nib to open it and raise it a little.

The flow is now amazing -- better than the Etruria, and as smooth as ever. This pen just took the lead.

A really wierd thing developed though. When I start writing the ink comes out a turquoise/green color and after a few strokes it returns to its normal blue color. This has been happening consistently for the past day or so. ANY THOUGHTS??

One thing to note is that my ink is a 70/30 mix of Waterman florida blue and south seas blue. I've always used this mix in numerous pens and nothing like this has ever happened.

You know I will end up with both --- but this analysis is enjoyable nonetheless

Thanks

My thought is that there is still some residual amonia in the feed. The ink sits in contact with it for a period and reacts. This would account for the initial coloration that returns to normal after the degraded ink has passed through. I would guess that after a period of using the pen you will no longer see this.


Dave

Great to hear that you got the Superba. I once saw one at Joon in NYC/Trump Tower back in the mid-late 90's. That mossy-green celluloid was one of the prettiest materials that I've ever seen in a pen. It was very vintage-like. But the $900 price was far over my willingness-to-pay at the time.

Regarding Italian pens, I also saw a Tibaldi Transparante in the late 90's....boy that was a beauty, big, with a matching big nib. Very rare on the secondary market.

Skip

Now that I've got the Nettuno Superba on the way, I am also smitten with the Nettuno Idra (I believe that it uses the same celluloid and it is a nifty sleeve filler). I've poked around but this one doesn't seem to turn up much. I've had to put my name on the "waiting list" at Fountain Pen Hospital, and cross my fingers.

Dave

Fascinating thread -- I'm glued to it! Any pics by chance of the Superba and Etruria that you can post, Mag?

Look here for a recent post of a Superba FS: http://members3.boardhost.com/PenMarket/msg/1177178851.html

Pictures of the Etruria's are very easy to find online via Google images. There have been a number of different finishes...maybe as many as 10, including LE's for some pen shops.

Skip

I just came across this old thread. I prefer fountain pens, but I also keep a nice rollerball at my desk for the occasional time when I need to write a check and need to press through to the underlying copy page to make the copy. I have several, but my favorite is my Nettuno Idra. Like the Idra fountain pens these are also limited edition pens but they are much rarer than the Idra fountain pens. There were 511 Idra fountain pens made, but there were only 211 Idra rollerballs made. I am not sure why they did not make an equal number of each, but assuming all of the rollerballs still exist, the most sets of both pens that could be created for collectors would be just 211.

The mossy green with bronze flashes celluloid in these has to be seen in person to really appreciate how incredible it is.