http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/94C-AN-AR...090961096QQrdZ1

The arrogance!

Weelllllll.....

The link is to an ebay connection to an off-site auction. My impression is that typically when such auctions link to ebay, one will pay the usual auction fees for that auction house, if not a bit more as the auctioneer probably tries to compensate for the fees he'll lose to ebay.

Putting aside that Bloomsbury- now the host of ACE- is the premier host o on the planet for live pen auctions, it is my recollection that their buyers fee is in at least the ballpark of the percentage cited.

So, they are charging usual fee and no doubt for our pleasure finding this auction on ebay-- instead of having to know they host the auction in England and to track down a catalog and to have chance to compete with folks in-the-know already-- ebay fees are tacked on.

I've been too busy to play with the Bloomsbury catalog this go round, but putting aside that some of the most nifty vintage pens in my collection have come from whichever British auction house happens to host ACE at the moment, i would observe that any one of their 3-4x/yr auctions probably distribute more grand pens than the much larger ebay does in half a year.

regards

david

Well, I still think they should just raise the price 22.5% and not annoy me.

You noticed the high buyer's premium on these auctions then? Let me give you a little background almost all live auction houses in England have a "buyer premium" of between 10-25% and some also charge VAT on top of that, another 17.5%. Welcome to the joys of dealing with auctions based in England.

Well, when using an auction house somebody's going to pay a premium.

The thing that gets me is the reams of legalese setting out terms and conditions.

First, I have not financial or other interest inthe auction house. The auction catalogue is available on line. I get a weekly update of a series of auctions that can be accessed on line, not only theirs. Their cataloque dispalys most but not all pens. Second, the buyers fee is not out of line with fees I have been paying at domestic auction houses for things: art, antiques. It seems to be the same on e-bay as listed on their on line catalogue In buying locally in New Orlesans, we not only pay the buyers fees but also a 10% sales tax.

My complaint isn't about the price, it's about the BS. Just stick your pen up there and set the starting price relative to what you want for it, for heaven's sake.

And as cwnidog says, get a life with your terms and conditions.

But I'm not really annoyed, since I didn't see anything I was interested in bidding on anyway! I'm really just bemused at how seriously these silly people take themselves. Buying a $75 pen shouldn't require due dilligence.

I suspect that I may have been misunderstood. My complaint is not that there are terms and conditions, just that they tend to be rather dense and unreadable. An agreement that is not understood by all parties isn't really an agreement at all. And yes, I have actually taken the time to read the terms and conditions on eBay a few times, as I do trade there occaisionally. They're not really any less dense or in any way more reader friendly, it's just that Bloomsbury was the house under discussion.

Now, as to terms and conditions being there, I quite agree that in order to run a fair auction, the house needs to set out the rules and obligations for the buyer, the seller, and the house itself - and as life gets more complex, so do agreements. I'd just like to see them couched in clearer, simpler language.

Fair enough, David i.

I still say they're going way over the top for $100 pens, but I can see that a serious pen collector like you is going to have a different perspective from mine...even though I also run an actual, real, established successful business (publishing and editing a magazine) and have never found it necessary to write more than a couple of paragraphs of terms and conditions - in English, not legalese (which is the official language of Satan! )...

I have two questions:
1. What does "shizzle" mean ?
2. If the Bloomsbury catalog is onine with some photos, would someone be so kind as to post a link?
Thanks

For your first question, "shizzle" can mean any one-syllable word that starts with "sh."
See this article.

I would hazard to say that there may be a misunderstanding involved here. This is not a standard eBay auction but rather a live auction being accessed through eBay.

Other posters have noted this but let me emphasize. There will be a live auction held by Bloomsbury in an actual physical location. Bloomsbury, as always, will be taking bids from floor bidders (those who are physically present in the room). In a recent development of the internet age, they will also be taking bids from internet bidders using eBay as the intermediary.

This is similar to how auction houses take bids from remote bidders by phone. The only difference is that *live* internet access to remote bidders requires more complex arrangements. Internet bidders need to see all bids, including floor bids, on a second by second basis and interact with the auction instantly. Bloomsbury, like other auction houses, has chosen not to create the programming to do this in-house but to outsource this facility to eBay.

Hi,

Also to be clear. If i did so, i did no intend to suggest that anyone with a gripe about Bloomsbury might not himself run real actual business.

And, i concur that the info presented there was rather dense.

I stand more in defense of both the right to fees and to protective policies.

regrds

david

"What does "shizzle" mean ?"

hahahaha

Well, according to that Wikipedia article it means absolutely nothing in this context. But it's also a silly substitution for another sh word that someone as polite as I would never use. (Except when speaking or writing.)

If you do a search on ebay for "Parker 51," this is the second page. The auctions are at the bottom:

http://search.ebay.com/parker-51_W0QQfromZR40QQfrtsZ50

And here's one of them (there are a few):

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/83C-PARKE...090961029QQrdZ1

Actually that one looks like a very nice pen.

***
Jeff L, I'll now shut up. You've convinced me that it's not as arbitrary as it seems.

yah, lack of reading contracts is contributing to the imminant demise of the housing market.

Folks thinking the 1% negatively amortized 6 month teaser rate would be their actual payments at length, that they would not be hit for monster pre-payment penalties if tried to refi into a fixed, that "fixed for 3 months" is not a helpful mortgage and that they would be guaranteed a fixed refi down the pike.... vewwwwwy bad magic.

d

They make it hard to read and as long as possible quite deliberately, of course. Even if the terms of the loan are explained clearly and they tell you exactly what you're signing, there are always lots of ridiculous little charges swept under the rug. And they add up. Administrative file search, $75. Supervisory approval, $115...

Some states have that charming "transfer" tax too

d

I actually do read contracts that I'm expected to sign. Silly of me I know, but you'd be amazed at what you find hidden in them. Twice I have gotten up and left because the written contract contradicted what I had been told. As for time, well I've got nothing better to do than to protect myself and the bank, lawyer, or whomever is asking me to sign is getting paid for their time.

For the record, I understand that the buyer's fee is how Bloomsbury makes its money. A live auction has to take a fee from either the buyer or the seller, and in the end it's going to come from the buyer anyway. The auction house provides a service and deserves to be paid for it.

-john

I would also add that in a live auction, one of the things you pay for is the ability to view, handle and inspect the item before bidding. That is not an option in most Ebay auctions, but is standard operating procedure for live auctions.

Of course, not all of us can fly to London to view the items. I have participated in one Bloomsbury auction (in which I was very pleased with the results), and a fellow FPNer was willing to pay a visit to the Bloomsbury to check out the item I bid on (thanks Mark!) . The fees ad up, for certain, but you just need to factor that into your bid. As I recall, their standard buyers premium for bidders on the floor is 18%, up to some 4-or 5-figure hammer price, and then it goes down to 15%. So they add about 4.5% points for remote bids, whether through Ebay or otherwise. I emailed the auction house directly, and found they were fairly easy to deal with and the shipping to the US was quite reasonable.

As a result, I seem to have gotten on their auction catalog mailing list.

As I understand it, live auction houses generally charge a buyers premium to the buyers, but the seller gets the full hammer price. Ebay choose to take the auction fees out of the sale price, which is easier for a wider audience unfamiliar with the workings of auction houses.

John

Hey Jim, I just noticed your picture. What mountain are you on? The background looks like the tops of mountains in the Cascades - lots of loose rock.

(A friend of mine, a *serious* climber, lives in Sisters, OR. With him I've been up the Middle Sister, the Husband, and halfway up the South Sister - we hit a roadblock on the southwest face that wasn't in the map.)

The only thing that led me to believe that about the rock is having struggled up scree. Therefore I figure all rock + Cascades = scree.