The recent thread on whether to use warm water with flushing a pen raised another question in my mind:
When I rinse out my pens to change ink color (which I do a lot, since I like to play with different ink colors), it takes me FOREVER. I fill and empty, fill and empty. Then just when I think I have all the ink out, it seems like there is more intense pigment coming out. It can take me 15-20 minutes of continous filling and emptying to get it to the point where I think it is empty. I just flush with cool/cold tap water.
Even then I'm never completely sure. I just figure if there's any ink left, it will be too dilute to matter.
I assume most of the ink that is still in there is somehow still in the feed system. I rock my pens in my hand to be sure that I am rinsing all of the ink chamber/sac, so I don't think that the problem it that there is a reservoir of ink in my ink chamber/sac.
Does it take everyone this long to rinse out a pen, or am I doing something wrong? (Or am I just being too compulsive about getting out all the ink?)
Full Version: Another flushing question
Kenny-
You know what the answer must be: buy one pen per ink bottle; keep watch on all ink levels; write abundantly. Plus, think that when you buy another shade of red, blue, etc., you need to purchase a pen to accompany it.
A simple variation on the concept that when pregnant, 1 eats 4 2.
You know what the answer must be: buy one pen per ink bottle; keep watch on all ink levels; write abundantly. Plus, think that when you buy another shade of red, blue, etc., you need to purchase a pen to accompany it.
A simple variation on the concept that when pregnant, 1 eats 4 2.
Yes, it takes time. To get the residual ink out of the feed I fill the pen with water, wrap wads of paper towel around the nib, and put the pen in a cup, nib down. Repeat.
On stubborn pens I'll fill & empty, fill& empty with an solution of 2/3 cup water with 1 TBS ammonia. Then flush with plain water. Soaking the nib in this solution first also helps.
On stubborn pens I'll fill & empty, fill& empty with an solution of 2/3 cup water with 1 TBS ammonia. Then flush with plain water. Soaking the nib in this solution first also helps.
kenny, that's another issue, huh? Man, I've thought the same thing and figured the warm water would speed things along. At first, I thought it was kinda fun and a part of the experience. But now...a pain in the butt. I guess it's one of those things we have to endure, like detailing tires on the car.
I suspect folks will hate this opinion, but I think there is way too much emphasis on getting every last micro-drop of ink out of pens. I won't go so far as to that 20 minutes of flushing is BAD for a pen, but for folks who are as fussy about their pens as we are (just glance at the threads on performance, looks, etc. for confirmation of fussiness!), we seem very willing to pump and pump and pump to get that ink out, pushing the pen in a manner most of us would not treat our treasured pens in other respects.
For myself, I don't think it is the worst thing in the world if the first ten minutes of writing with my pen newly filled with blue ink shows a blue-green tinge from the green ink I previously had in the pen.
I flush my pens two or three times, depending on the filler type, and then I follow Elaine's sensible and no wear-and-tear method of depositing the pen nib down in a small jar filled with tissue paper. I don't leave the pen filled with water, but there's no harm in that and I'm sure it does help to get ink out of every nook and cranny of the pen's innards. Two or three days later the pen is dry and ready to be refilled or put away.
Dan
For myself, I don't think it is the worst thing in the world if the first ten minutes of writing with my pen newly filled with blue ink shows a blue-green tinge from the green ink I previously had in the pen.
I flush my pens two or three times, depending on the filler type, and then I follow Elaine's sensible and no wear-and-tear method of depositing the pen nib down in a small jar filled with tissue paper. I don't leave the pen filled with water, but there's no harm in that and I'm sure it does help to get ink out of every nook and cranny of the pen's innards. Two or three days later the pen is dry and ready to be refilled or put away.
Dan
I flush up to a point, then stop. That point depends on circumstances. I rarely flush until the water seems quite clear. I find that whatever residual ink may remain from the last color is best flushed out by the new ink, and that sometimes there are delightful accidental combinations. It rarely takes me more than a few lines before the new color is established. Disclaimer: I may not be a purist.
QUOTE(dcarmell @ Feb 11 2007, 11:52 AM)
I suspect folks will hate this opinion, but I think there is way too much emphasis on getting every last micro-drop of ink out of pens. I won't go so far as to that 20 minutes of flushing is BAD for a pen, but for folks who are as fussy about their pens as we are (just glance at the threads on performance, looks, etc. for confirmation of fussiness!), we seem very willing to pump and pump and pump to get that ink out, pushing the pen in a manner most of us would not treat our treasured pens in other respects.
Well, that was one of the issues. I thought to myself, "Am I going to wear out my piston by filling and flusing so much?"
I figured I must be doing something wrong.
QUOTE(dcarmell @ Feb 11 2007, 11:52 AM)
For myself, I don't think it is the worst thing in the world if the first ten minutes of writing with my pen newly filled with blue ink shows a blue-green tinge from the green ink I previously had in the pen.
My fear was more that I would contaminate my bottle of fresh ink with the other color that was in the pen.
I begin by holding the nib and feed under the running water until it runs reasonably clear. I then fill the pen with clean water from a cup and expel it into the sink the first few times to avoid "polluting" the water in the cup with expelled ink. That also seems to speed up the process.
For pens with a converter, I find that sometimes removing the converter and flushing it by itself will get the remaining ink out of it faster. Then I flush the feed by allowing the cool water to run through it from the back (where the converter usually sits) until it runs reasonably clear. Usually, when I put the converter back in after doing this, it only takes 2-3 more fills to get the water reasonably clear.
With Pelikan pens, I sometimes remove the nib units and flush out the inside of the pen barrel with cool water and run water through the feed that way.
I'd say I usually spend no more than 5 minutes flushing a pen this way.
P.S. None of the above applies to a Parker 51 or Vacumatic filler. I typically try not to change ink colors in those pens very often. In my experience, they take forever to get cleaned out (I probably don't have the technique down). I've heard about some people converting a salad spinner to use centrifugal force to get the ink and water out of a Parker 51 (I use the less efficient thermometer-shakedown method). If I could find one cheap, I think I would try that. I'd be too embarassed to do it at the office, however. That's a bit of pen geekiness that I would have to do in the privacy of my own home. I don't even think I could do that when my wife is around for fear of the teasing and ribbing that would ensue. She makes fun of me enough about my "pen disease" as it is!
For pens with a converter, I find that sometimes removing the converter and flushing it by itself will get the remaining ink out of it faster. Then I flush the feed by allowing the cool water to run through it from the back (where the converter usually sits) until it runs reasonably clear. Usually, when I put the converter back in after doing this, it only takes 2-3 more fills to get the water reasonably clear.
With Pelikan pens, I sometimes remove the nib units and flush out the inside of the pen barrel with cool water and run water through the feed that way.
I'd say I usually spend no more than 5 minutes flushing a pen this way.
P.S. None of the above applies to a Parker 51 or Vacumatic filler. I typically try not to change ink colors in those pens very often. In my experience, they take forever to get cleaned out (I probably don't have the technique down). I've heard about some people converting a salad spinner to use centrifugal force to get the ink and water out of a Parker 51 (I use the less efficient thermometer-shakedown method). If I could find one cheap, I think I would try that. I'd be too embarassed to do it at the office, however. That's a bit of pen geekiness that I would have to do in the privacy of my own home. I don't even think I could do that when my wife is around for fear of the teasing and ribbing that would ensue. She makes fun of me enough about my "pen disease" as it is!
Using a squeeze bulb to force water through can speed things up considerably.
The squeeze bulbs are about $2 at Walmart.
There is a good description and photo of a squeeze bulb in use on Richard Binder's site:
http://richardspens.com/ref_info/care.htm
The squeeze bulbs are about $2 at Walmart.
There is a good description and photo of a squeeze bulb in use on Richard Binder's site:
http://richardspens.com/ref_info/care.htm
Kenny, thanks for posting this, as it is clearly an issue that I think is under-discussed. I dislike my piston filling pens for this reason, because it seems to take literally 100 fill/empty cycles to run clear. The advantage to Pelikan and Esterbrook is nib removal for cleaning. Most of my converter pens I rinse till clean, then use the paper towel method mentioned. But sometimes, the paper towel is so darkly stained I can't help but want to go through the cycle again.
With converters, I find taking them out, rinsing, and then putting the coverter back and drawing water through it also helps. I also blow air through nib sections.
It would be helpful to hear from some real veterans with experience--if you rinse really well, but still get some occasional dye on the paper towel when left vertically to dry, does that small amount over time clog nib feeds?
John
With converters, I find taking them out, rinsing, and then putting the coverter back and drawing water through it also helps. I also blow air through nib sections.
It would be helpful to hear from some real veterans with experience--if you rinse really well, but still get some occasional dye on the paper towel when left vertically to dry, does that small amount over time clog nib feeds?
John
I agree with Mike S about flushing: If you've got the option, flushing the nib and cartridge separately often helps. Last night I was changing inks in my Sailor 1911 with the music nib, and it seemed like the black wouldn't come out, and then I took out the converter and yep...there's always that little bit of black that sticks around the opening. I take a sliver of paper towel and blot those bits out, then rinse the nib separately.
Usually I start with the 2:1 water-to-ammonia mix, just to get things moving in the nib, and if something's clogged I'll use warm water with a drop of dish detergent, and then cold water to rinse, followed by the paper towel around the nib for a few hours. Usually it doesn't take all that, however; it depends on the pen.
I do agree in some respects with dcarmell that it's not terrible if you don't get all the ink out, though it depends on which color inks your switching from and to. Going from Sailor black to Sailor yellow-orange last night, I definitely wanted to get the darker ink out first. If I'd gone the other way, I doubt the yellow-orange would have affected the black. Also, if you're changing brands I'd be sure to flush as much as possible since sometimes the quality of the ink itself can be affected. Noodler's bulletproof isn't guaranteed if it's mixed, and Sailor inks aren't supposed to mix with any other.
Wiglaf, however, has the best idea.
Usually I start with the 2:1 water-to-ammonia mix, just to get things moving in the nib, and if something's clogged I'll use warm water with a drop of dish detergent, and then cold water to rinse, followed by the paper towel around the nib for a few hours. Usually it doesn't take all that, however; it depends on the pen.
I do agree in some respects with dcarmell that it's not terrible if you don't get all the ink out, though it depends on which color inks your switching from and to. Going from Sailor black to Sailor yellow-orange last night, I definitely wanted to get the darker ink out first. If I'd gone the other way, I doubt the yellow-orange would have affected the black. Also, if you're changing brands I'd be sure to flush as much as possible since sometimes the quality of the ink itself can be affected. Noodler's bulletproof isn't guaranteed if it's mixed, and Sailor inks aren't supposed to mix with any other.
Wiglaf, however, has the best idea.
If I'm switching inks and refilling, or taking a pen out of rotation and storing it, I'll spend the time to make sure that the water runs clear, which could take up to 20 minutes and sometimes more (depending on the pen and the color ink I used last).
As someone already noted, cleaning pens like Pelikans and Esties are much easier because I can remove the nib, soak it in water or put it in an ultrasonic cleaner, and then flush out the barrel.
I've also found that typically, the most difficult pens to clean and flush are those with hooded or semi-hooded nibs. In that case, I do what Elaine has already suggested -- flush, soak, flush some more, and then soak again -- to make sure the water runs clear.
On a cold, blustery winter day, like today, I find this ritual to be fun and calming (yea, I know I'm weird). It also helps to have some good tunes playing in the background while one takes on the task.
Normally though, it does start to get cumbersome, and the task itself discourages me from inking too many pens all at once. Today, I cleaned about 10 pens to store away -- I had about 20 in rotation. I'm trying to limit myself to only 3-5 in rotation...but that's another discussion altogether.
As someone already noted, cleaning pens like Pelikans and Esties are much easier because I can remove the nib, soak it in water or put it in an ultrasonic cleaner, and then flush out the barrel.
I've also found that typically, the most difficult pens to clean and flush are those with hooded or semi-hooded nibs. In that case, I do what Elaine has already suggested -- flush, soak, flush some more, and then soak again -- to make sure the water runs clear.
On a cold, blustery winter day, like today, I find this ritual to be fun and calming (yea, I know I'm weird). It also helps to have some good tunes playing in the background while one takes on the task.
Normally though, it does start to get cumbersome, and the task itself discourages me from inking too many pens all at once. Today, I cleaned about 10 pens to store away -- I had about 20 in rotation. I'm trying to limit myself to only 3-5 in rotation...but that's another discussion altogether.
A few good sharp flings after each rinse-and-empty will shake a lot of that ink loose of the feed. Wrap the nib on a paper towel (it will create a lovely spray of ink if you don't) and PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE DOING, as it is woefully easy to let the pen slip out of your hand and then you get to find out how long your favorite' restorer's repair queue is. With care it works very well, though.
With a Pelikan I just take the nib out, give it a good rinse under the tap alternating with a few flings, then soak it in cool water for maybe 20 min. I rinse the barrel separately. This is painless and as quick a means as I know of.
Many nib sections can be removed and soaked.
If the ink colors are close I don't get too nutty about it.
With a Pelikan I just take the nib out, give it a good rinse under the tap alternating with a few flings, then soak it in cool water for maybe 20 min. I rinse the barrel separately. This is painless and as quick a means as I know of.
Many nib sections can be removed and soaked.
If the ink colors are close I don't get too nutty about it.
I've been spoiled by pens, like Pel Mxxx and Aurora Optima, with screw-out nibs. (Oh, yes, and c/c fillers, but I stay away from them.) Being able to rinse the nib unit and barrel separately cuts flushing time by a factor of 4 or 5, not to mention avoiding wear and tear on the filling system.
That said, there seems to be little point to trying to get every last molecule of ink out of a pen if all you're going to do is fill it up again with ink. <_< If you're planning to sell the pen, that would be another story.
That said, there seems to be little point to trying to get every last molecule of ink out of a pen if all you're going to do is fill it up again with ink. <_< If you're planning to sell the pen, that would be another story.
Hi,
What inks are you using? I recommend lukewarm water, water which is not cold and is not warm, rather, about room temperature.
For Pelikans, I remove the nib unit and use a syringe to flush out the innards. Next, I attach a rubber bulb to the back of the nib unit to flush it out.
For lever fillers, I fill them with water, then gently open the lever again to expel the water, then I fill it again, and repeat this process. Finally, I fill it with water, wipe the nib and turn the pen barrel end down to get the water into the end of the sac. After doing this several times, and repeating the fill, empty process several times, when no ink comes out, I declare it clean. on rare occasions, I put the pens through my ultrasonic cleaner (using cold water, the ultrasonic heats it up, so this negates the effect of the heating) for a few seconds (the grip end only) to dislodge any ink that has crept between the top face of the nib and the inner wall of the section.
For piston fillers, I just repeatedly fill and empty them until the water runs clear, then I use the ultrasonic cleaner as with the lever-fillers. Sometimes, if I am giving them a thorough cleaning, I disassemble them, then lubricate and reseal them.
For capillary fillers, I clean then the same way as cartridge-fillers.
Sometimes, with any of these pens, you may substitute the ultrasonic cleaning by filling the pen with water and leaving it for a day, then fill and empty again, then you are all set.
Dillon
What inks are you using? I recommend lukewarm water, water which is not cold and is not warm, rather, about room temperature.
For Pelikans, I remove the nib unit and use a syringe to flush out the innards. Next, I attach a rubber bulb to the back of the nib unit to flush it out.
For lever fillers, I fill them with water, then gently open the lever again to expel the water, then I fill it again, and repeat this process. Finally, I fill it with water, wipe the nib and turn the pen barrel end down to get the water into the end of the sac. After doing this several times, and repeating the fill, empty process several times, when no ink comes out, I declare it clean. on rare occasions, I put the pens through my ultrasonic cleaner (using cold water, the ultrasonic heats it up, so this negates the effect of the heating) for a few seconds (the grip end only) to dislodge any ink that has crept between the top face of the nib and the inner wall of the section.
For piston fillers, I just repeatedly fill and empty them until the water runs clear, then I use the ultrasonic cleaner as with the lever-fillers. Sometimes, if I am giving them a thorough cleaning, I disassemble them, then lubricate and reseal them.
For capillary fillers, I clean then the same way as cartridge-fillers.
Sometimes, with any of these pens, you may substitute the ultrasonic cleaning by filling the pen with water and leaving it for a day, then fill and empty again, then you are all set.
Dillon
QUOTE(Dillo @ Feb 11 2007, 05:18 PM)
Hi,
What inks are you using? I recommend lukewarm water, water which is not cold and is not warm, rather, about room temperature.
What inks are you using? I recommend lukewarm water, water which is not cold and is not warm, rather, about room temperature.
I use a variety of inks. For my piston fillers, I probably use Private Reserve or MontBlanc the most, followed closely by Waterman. Then Noodler's. Levenger's, Pelikan, and?
Does the ink make a difference in the flushing technique?
[quote=kenny,Feb 12 2007, 04:27 AM] [/QUOTE]
I use a variety of inks. For my piston fillers, I probably use Private Reserve or MontBlanc the most, followed closely by Waterman. Then Noodler's. Levenger's, Pelikan, and?
Does the ink make a difference in the flushing technique? [/quote]
Mont Blanc is like sludge, among other things...and is devilish to get out. Waterman, depending on which color, is nearly as bad, but at least it ain't MB.
One quick comment...to avoid contaminiating a bottle of ink when switch colors...and after a reasonable (not fiendish) cleaning cycle...off-load some of the ink to a separate container, like an empty Skrip bottle with the ink well, and fill from there. No contamination, and the new ink will help clean out the old ink. Plus for a while you get a new color never seen before that you will NEVER figure out how to duplicate.
(I am not making that last bit up... I did that with a PR Velvet Black and American Blue once. Perfect, I say perfect blue-black. Have never got the balance right since..)
Bill in South Jersey
I use a variety of inks. For my piston fillers, I probably use Private Reserve or MontBlanc the most, followed closely by Waterman. Then Noodler's. Levenger's, Pelikan, and?
Does the ink make a difference in the flushing technique? [/quote]
Mont Blanc is like sludge, among other things...and is devilish to get out. Waterman, depending on which color, is nearly as bad, but at least it ain't MB.
One quick comment...to avoid contaminiating a bottle of ink when switch colors...and after a reasonable (not fiendish) cleaning cycle...off-load some of the ink to a separate container, like an empty Skrip bottle with the ink well, and fill from there. No contamination, and the new ink will help clean out the old ink. Plus for a while you get a new color never seen before that you will NEVER figure out how to duplicate.
(I am not making that last bit up... I did that with a PR Velvet Black and American Blue once. Perfect, I say perfect blue-black. Have never got the balance right since..)
Bill in South Jersey
QUOTE(sonia_simone @ Feb 11 2007, 09:14 PM)
A few good sharp flings after each rinse-and-empty will shake a lot of that ink loose of the feed.
QUOTE
Everyone needs at least one fling in their lifetime!
PS-I can remember doing this and embedding a pen in the wall--
| QUOTE (johnr55 @ Feb 12 2007, 09:45 AM) | ||||
Everyone needs at least one fling in their lifetime!  PS-I can remember doing this and embedding a pen in the wall--  |
I had this unfortunate experience just the other day. I was cleaning a mess of pens, and when I was flinging a Stipula Duetto around, there wasn't enough friction with the Kleenex. It flew across the kitchen, hitting the hardwood floor, nib down.
I just stood there paralyzed at the thought of what I'd just done -- that is, until one the cats started to bat the Duetto around on the floor like a cat toy. It snapped me out of my semi-catatonic state, and I reached down to inspect the damage. The nib was all tweaked and bent, and I started to flog myself until I remembered something an old friend used to say: "A problem that can be fixed with money is merely an expense..." So off to repair the Duetto will go! It has certainly seen happier days...
Aiee! That is upsetting, although it sounds like you kept your head.
| QUOTE (girlieg33k @ Feb 14 2007, 04:07 AM) | ||
|
Nice quote. It's a nice companion for your Anais Nin signature line.
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