I'm looking at this 38' burgandy vac set on Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

It looks/sounds very nice, but it has a plastic filler. On a 38, I'd expect an aluminum speedline, and with a plastic filler I'd expect a single jewel - right?

Second question, am I nuts for trying to buy something like this without examing it in person?

Finally, does anyone have an opinion on the seller?

Thanks (from a very green collector),
Buzz J

looks nice to me--i would go for it

I don't know, I have a Vac with a 36 body, 37 two-tone nib, plastic filler, single jewel, older arrow style clip and ///\\\ style band in gold on a silver and black pen. I think anything is possible. (And yes, it all looks original)

To start with Buzz's original question, the plastic filler is acceptable on this pen, as the factory and repair persons used them after 1941. So had this pen gone in for repair in the 1940s through the 1960s, the repair person, be it at Parker, an official repair station, or an independent, would, most likely have tossed the speedline (gack!) and thrown in the plastic.

As far as the set, it seems just fine, but I think the reserve too high. But if you have the money and want this uncommon set . . . Note, though, that the pencil is larger than the pen. It is a standard clicker type pencil (those alone are uncommon). The pen is a Deb.

I think I have bought from the seller, who seemed reputable, but I am a victim of CRS, so don't take that last part as gospel.

Buzz,
This is what a proper set should look like. This one even has the original vest pocket case with it....
This is fourth quarter 1937 with a lockdown filler and two tone nib
BTW, it might be for sale if you are interested.... back channel me if you are...


You can see more info on it at this link
Burgundy Vacumatic Deb Set

In referencing the quite nice looking pen set that Peter has on ebay, the Propas opined.



I must take some exception to the first sentence of The Porpoise's thesis. Hmm... that- i say THAT- is a shock.

One of course may assert acceptability, but good professors need to be a bit more open to alternative views. Just don't get him started on politics!

Recognizing that few to-the-day watersheds are known for Parker- though we might be blessed with more general dating information (quarters/years) for change than can be found for other pens- there is pretty good observational evidence (at least) that the plastic filler indeed was not formally introduced to production until 1942... and not the very first day of 1942, at least for some models.

Now, assuming the pen set we discuss has an earlier date code than 1942 (and for the heck of it, let us say earlier than last quarter 1941 as well), the plastic pump probably is not original.

But, of course Rick did not say, "original"; in fact, he supports non-originality. Rather, he said, "acceptable".

And that might be so. Bleaghh- if Rick might be correct, why take exception?

Because acceptability perhaps is a misleading characteristic in this chat.

Parker Vacumatics have an amazing array of readily swappable parts. Sections, clips, nibs, and jewels vary amongst years of production, but many of those variants can be popped around amongst pens by even the neophyte.

Most of these anomalous findings (if we don't wish to insist simply wrong-to-era pieces are present) have modest impact on value and certainly are of varying degrees of acceptability to collectors of varied philosophy about such things.

Indeed, i happily buy for my collection and offer for sale pens in which i opt not to rectify such issues. Indeed an otherwise grand pen with later filler unit is at the retail level perhaps a $10-20 theoretical value hit (the going retail diff between spare plastic and speedline fillers), and is of less impact in practice to most collectors.

So, a plastic filler in a 1939 pen certainly can be acceptable. Lots of fixes or changes done in the old days or by me yesterday no joke can be very acceptable

Finding a black gripping section in a high line 1937 (non black) pen can be acceptable.

Very acceptable to many is finding a nib that should be two-tone but has lost its two-toning or has had a monotone nib swapped in.

Acceptable can be (i will have one up next month) a pen with a black top jewel instead of the anticipated striped top jewel.

For the eager user- a worn, brassed and hairlined pen can be acceptable if it has that special nib

http://www.vacumania.com/website/peneducationuser.htm

But, my suspicion is that the question here really is... is a given finding correct. Or-- if one believes that the quirks of pen production utterly preclude an assertion of correctness-- does a finding meet the expectations of conventional wisdom, such as it is. Knowledge is power... and all that.

Let's not even get into... with what date codes would one expect to find a "star" clip, which is a somewhat more desirable clip to find on a vac.

Since i'm so wiped out today, i'm going back to bed in few minutes. I will leave y'all with one last question. Doesn't anyone have anything to say about... the pencil? Worth well more than the current bid all by itself. And you guys are focused on whether the pen should have a $30 metal filler instead of a $20 plastic filler???

Dang. Pete better give me a commission

regards

david

David,

It's amazing that a person in a profession requiring so much precision can opine such an obtuse initally- disagreeable agreement!

...



Interesting insight, though i might've suggested we were in agreeable disagreement :doh:

Keep in mind. The Porpoise really is something of a Vac Mallard himself, and he and this ol' VacQuack have been agreeably disagreeing since before most internet fountain pen boards were a twinkle in anyone's eye 9 And, given that i'm just a hack-amateur-newbie myself, when all is said n' done, that's saying sumthin!

Too, helping things along is that he is usually wrong.

But, he's known enough to grab some seriously exotic vacs for his collection over the years.

david

I wouldn't buy the vac set shown on ebay

David's right, funny how you guys focused on that filler when you got the pencil, and the star clips, all of which are in my mind more interesting.

I don't even collect vacs, or parkers, and picked up on the pencil right away.

I would have no problem grabbing the set shown. I just like to figure out what is what along the way


regards

david

And, no one has yet pointed out why that pencil is so interesting

d

David,
Does the pencil novelty have something to do with a replaceable eraser/lead cartridge?
Buzz

Look at the pencil.

Does it seem different from "typical" vac pencils?

To make this maybe a bit easier (who me?), compare it to the red pencil in Tom Mullane's set that is shown a few posts above mine. Tom's set has a a correct vac pencil, but is much more the "typical" sort of vac pencil that is found during the 20 year vac run. The pencil in the ebay set that started this thread is... different.

regards

david

Ahhh,

Tom's cap is a flush fit. The curious pencil's cap is larger than the barrel.

Does this mean the cap is depressed to advance the lead?

Buzz

David, I think that someone did mention that this was the click advance pencil and that it is the correct size for a Standard set.

What really gets me is that I sold a Standard set in Burgundy with the same pencil to Bill Reipel for less than half of the reserve on this auction.

Anyway, the pencil is a push or click to advance type and does have the larger diameter upper body. The uppper body of the pencil pushes down onto and over the lower barrel to advance the lead. I may be wrong, but didn't these use the lead cartridge type refills as well. I can't remember at the moment, but I have had a few drinks this evening and am slowly melting into my chair with a nice Crown Royal and Coke at the moment.


Cheers,
SG

Hi,

Given that i no doubt did not read every word on this thread (my bad!), i might've missed that the pencil was recognized as being the "repeater"style pencil. So it goes... :doh:

These injector pencils are charming and probably were produced just a couple months, all told

regards

david