I am interested in buying a vintage Patrician at the upcoming LA Pen Show. What should I look for to be sure I am getting a quality item? What are the more desirable models and colors and nibs? What should I be paying? Any advice would be appreciated.

Besides all the usual pen stuff, you want to be particularly on the lookout for loose clips (not at all uncommon and hard to repair) and missing or non-original medallions on the bottom of the barrel.

What color are you looking for?

Be prepared to pay up! A nice example with good color and no meaningful problems will set you back $1000 and up (more like $1500 and up for Turquoise).

Make sure all of the correct Patrician parts are there.

tight, and correct clips,

proper nib,

globe emblem,

PROPER lever,

Check for cracks or repaired cracks around the lever box, around the barrel threads, around the clip mount, at the cap lip.

Make sure the pen threads on all three threads, properly, tightly, and without any kind of rough engagement.

sometimes the cap bands are loose.

If you're willing to settle on decent color, try to find something you will be happy with, even match.

Not sure if i ever seen these pens with any major issues with cracking/crazing, but just check it real well.

This is probably the best advice for getting a good vintage pen. Bob Novak told me You should always buy the best pen you can get for yourself, and if theres an ok well known pen, vs. a Mint Exceptional lesser known set, go for the Lesser known pen. Unless its an ultra rare pen like the Aztec or Snake, CONDITION IS EVERYTHING!!!


EDIT: I forgot to mention, If you really want a certain pen, but the condition isnt right, or you dont feel right about the buy, I learned, no matter what pen it is, %99.99999 Percent of the time, The pen will come up again, in better condition.

Not sure about the 99.999% thing there...

I can name a few that I waited 7+ years for to come around, not exceptionally high priced pens, just ones that don't come around.


One thing you will learn, is that once in a while you have to grab the bull by the horns, and just go for it.

Bob has provided me with a lot of knowledge, as well. One thing you can learn from him, and said by George, and I will repaet it here, is that Always, Always buy on condition, and don't overlook those lesser known named manufacturers. Good advice!

Concur that scarce variants might not come up again in short order. Imperfect pen can be ok so long as priced appropriately.

Many Patricians have... issues. They are glorious and classic pens, but IMHO not quite the quality of cheaper-today Parker and Sheaffer pens from the era.

Shown below is- i believe- a complete production color set. The black pen being a cut-away demo, or so i'm told. Maybe just someone had fun with a pen knife - no pen intended

Note in particular the glorious color on the green and in particular the onyx (cream/red) pens. the vast majority of onyx pens have bad color. Even pens cited as good color probably really are bad color.

Besides the condition issues cited elsewhere (nib, threads, lip cracks, imprint quality, etc), color is huge issue for many of these. A superb green can easily (or should) double price of so-so. Or... consider that bad color should be half or less of good color Onyx appears (unlike nacre-perhaps) to never have had white background. Waterman ads and catalog show yellow. But the yellow should be light.

Typically, Turquoise is the most pricey color, but SPECTACULAR jade, nacre, onyx can trump it. Reason- at least one of 'em i guess- that those colors usually underprice Turquoise is that these other colors usually are weak.

The rather sharp Moss Agate in the pic is mine. The others belong to other folks. Such is power of digital montage.

regards

david

I believe a black plastic version exists (the one in the pic appears to be hard rubber). I also seem to remember reading somewhere that a ripple model had turned up. Demo? Fun time at the factory? Aftermarket craftsman job? Who knows?

Of course, there are lots of documented trim variations as well.

Some good advice here to heed - and applies to not only Patricians.

Don't forget to check the nibs too for condition. Patrician nibs are BIG and also come in a variety of styles. These are not cheap to replace or mend, and rarer nibs can add significantly to what may already be a high price.

I would rate (in order): originality, completeness, condition (including colour stability from the base of the barrel to the crown of the cap) and extras (by which I mean things like original presentation boxes, stickers).

I dislike writing with one (too big for comfort in my hands) but I could admire a fine example all day long.

Good luck in your hunting!

Thank you all for your advice and tips!