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æon
Moleskine notebooks seem to be as iconic as a notebook will probably ever be, but we all know that they aren't perfect, particularly the paper in them. However, Moleskine notebooks generally seem to be, to many, the best mix of features and construction out of the hordes of wannabes. Now, from my interest in design, I see a similarity between the Moleskine and the Ipod: they're not perfect, but everyone and their cat will still choose them over other brands. I think both have got close to that magic point where the design of the object is so pleasing that people will overlook any defects just to have one. I would suggest too that being part of 'the culture' plays no small part; they confer something of an instant cool by association. What do you think?
maia
I have almost finished my Large Notebook and to be honest I don't find the paper terrible at all (and this is writing with a juicy nib). It doesn't feather. The only thing one may not like is that the pages are too thin, thus you can see what's written on the other side (and even this isn't too bad IMO).
RetroTech
People do seem to flock around a certain brand name, and that lends to the perception of "best in breed".

In this case, I see many folks getting Moleskines, Ipods and Pilot G2s. Just look around the "what's in my bag" photos in Flickr.

I still use Moleskines for some things, but my notebook of choice has become Miguelrius. I don't own any G2s for that matter.

The Ipod phenom has really got me wondering: I have here a Creative Labs Jukebox (20GB) that was built sometime in 1998-99 and it still works beautifully. I would think that is sometime before Ipods hit the market. Yet I hear often that it is Apple that invented the portable MP3 player. Odd. Feature against feature, even today the CL products still beat the Ipods, and at a cheaper price point to boot.

I would further the equation like this:

Moleskine = Ipod = Montblanc

Most people think that each is the best brand in its category, and won't do any further research to verify. That's fine with me, as my choices are generally less expensive due to this line of thinking.

Regards.
Sonnet
QUOTE(RetroTech @ Nov 23 2006, 05:41 PM)
People do seem to flock around a certain brand name, and that lends to the perception of "best in breed".

In this case, I see many folks getting Moleskines, Ipods and Pilot G2s. Just look around the "what's in my bag" photos in Flickr.

I still use Moleskines for some things, but my notebook of choice has become Miguelrius. I don't own any G2s for that matter.

The Ipod phenom has really got me wondering: I have here a Creative Labs Jukebox (20GB) that was built sometime in 1998-99 and it still works beautifully. I would think that is sometime before Ipods hit the market. Yet I hear often that it is Apple that invented the portable MP3 player. Odd. Feature against feature, even today the CL products still beat the Ipods, and at a cheaper price point to boot.

I would further the equation like this:

Moleskine = Ipod = Montblanc

Most people think that each is the best brand in its category, and won't do any further research to verify. That's fine with me, as my choices are generally less expensive due to this line of thinking.

Regards.

Apple didn't invent the mp3 player as a whole. They looked at what was currently on the market [i.e. offerings by companies such as Creative], saw what needed improvement, and then ran with it.

MP3 players before the iPod: Slow syncing/song transferring; clunky interface; limited storage space; bulky

1st-generation iPod [2001]: fast song syncing via FireWire and later, USB 2.0; intuitive controls and interface; could fit up to 5 GB worth of songs; svelte package; doubled as an external hard drive for storing files [still does]

As for the Moleskine: all they have to do is make their paper SLIGHTLY better and we'd probably have The Perfect Notebook [for me, at least]. And I ignore their marketing hype anyway.
girlieg33k
I'd have to agree with you there -- people will buy/use Moleskines and Ipods despite their warts. I had an Ipod and I have the large Moleskine ruled notebook.

I like the Moleskine notebook only because of its exterior -- it's compact, well made, and really nice to the touch. I'll use it for daily notes to myself, like to-do lists or a list of phone calls I have to return. But as far as paper quality, I prefer to use the the Black n' Red notebooks. The lines are wider, and the paper is much thicker and smoother. If Black 'n Red could come up with a notebook that has more pages and as pleasing to the eye and touch as the Moleskines, it would be the only notebook/journal I'd buy.

As far as the Ipod, I ditched mine and gave it to my intern. He's smitten with it, and I then had an excuse to buy what I really wanted: a 60GB Creative Zen Vision: M as a replacement.
london
QUOTE(RetroTech @ Nov 23 2006, 10:41 PM)
I would further the equation like this:

Moleskine = Ipod = Montblanc

Most people think that each is the best brand in its category, and won't do any further research to verify. That's fine with me, as my choices are generally less expensive due to this line of thinking.

Regards.


I'd very much agree. But in a slightly different way.

I think Ipod and Moleskine are very similar in terms of what their brands stand for. But, I think Mont Blanc equates to the other two, but not in terms of what the brands mean. Moleskine/Ipod = creative, edgy, "I'm different (well, apple were originally'). Mont Blanc = important. Though, a MB FP (as oppossed to a BP) would probably have more overtones of creative, but only in certain markets.

The crux of branding, is that brands create an emotional connection with the consumer. This is what they are designed to do.

Whilst, we do not really know how brands work psychologically, much brand building effort is spent around developing this emotional response.

A core aspect of brand building and measuring the equity of a brand are 'emotional' benefits and 'self-expressive' benefits.

Both these are commonly confused by brand builders within simply 'emotional' response. Yet, there are subtle differences that are valulable.

A consumer in a BMW might 'feel important' (emotional benefit), but they might have bought a BMW to look important to others (self-expressive benefit). In the UK the MB brand is probably equivalent to BMW.

In the instance of Ipod, Moleskine and Mont Blanc these emotional AND self-expressive benefits are quite clear and obvious. And this is part of why these brands have been so successful.
rroossinck
I've found this to be a very interesting thread, and also one that I've had some similar thoughts relative to.

I think it's interesting how in popular culture today, there's this cult following of guys like Merlin Mann and others (even some of our own members, i.e. Pigpog) who have figured out the GTD thing. If these guys even mention something like Moleskine, there's a go-zillion posts and conversations about the joys of Moleskine-ing, and suddenly everyone's got one.

I guess I'm not making much of a point here, but I definitely agree with the OP's point. There's a certain amount of trendiness/bandwagon-ing attitude here, I think.

Perhaps it's just that we've run across a particularly good group of Mavens, a la Malcolm Gladwell. (?)
london
QUOTE(rroossinck @ Nov 24 2006, 01:21 PM)
I've found this to be a very interesting thread, and also one that I've had some similar thoughts relative to.

I think it's interesting how in popular culture today, there's this cult following of guys like Merlin Mann and others (even some of our own members, i.e. Pigpog) who have figured out the GTD thing. If these guys even mention something like Moleskine, there's a go-zillion posts and conversations about the joys of Moleskine-ing, and suddenly everyone's got one.

I guess I'm not making much of a point here, but I definitely agree with the OP's point. There's a certain amount of trendiness/bandwagon-ing attitude here, I think.

Perhaps it's just that we've run across a particularly good group of Mavens, a la Malcolm Gladwell. (?)


Aye, it can be quite fascinating. The whole tribal, trendy thing etc. Its also interesting to see how long these kind of things can be sustained before they are supplanted by another 'epidemic'.
rroossinck
To take this back towards fountain pens and such...

I will say this, though. Despite not having figured out the GTD thing (yet), I'm very pleased with the Moleskine collection that I do have. Currently, I'm using a small, lined reporter for notes taken during our church sermons, and I'm very happy with the way that my Lamy Flame EF/Pelikan 4001 Royal Blue writes on the paper. I know that others have commented about the lack of quality paper and feathering and such, but with the Flame being a dry writer, I'm pretty happy with it.

I won't touch 'em with my RCA Wearever Flexi-Medium, or my Pelikan M150 Medium nib (although I hope that that will change today...I'm headed down to Fort Madison in hopes that they've got a spare XF that I can swap out).
born t
I buy Molskine notebooks not because I want to be Hemmingway or whatever -- I don't care a fig about those writers, and I don't follow any fashion or care about Ipods. I buy them because I like their quality! Most of the time I don't understand it at all when people complain about Moleskine being inferior.

I have used two sizes: 14*21 cm and 9*14 cm. I find the paper VERY pleasing to write and sketch on, no bleeding through or feathering whatsoever, even with my soaking wet pens, unless I write repeatedly on the same spot, of course. I have used Diamine, Parker, Pelikan, Manuscript, Yard-O-led and Windsor & Newton inks, all with no problem. Its cream colour is also much nicer than the stark white of common inkjet paper's or their competitors'. It's thin and light -- I don't like my notebook as thick as a card -- it's a notebook, not a legal document. And it's relatively cheap.

I use Moleskine for all sorts of thing, from doodling to drafting important documents. before I settle on Moleskine I have tried all sorts of paper, and I find their competitors either downright unsuitable for everyday writing or overly expensive for what I get. The common characteristic of most notebook papers that I hate is that they're too thick. Moleskine's non-rule Cashier is my favourite!
Betty
QUOTE(RetroTech @ Nov 23 2006, 10:41 PM)
The Ipod phenom has really got me wondering: I have here a Creative Labs Jukebox (20GB) that was built sometime in 1998-99 and it still works beautifully. I would think that is sometime before Ipods hit the market. Yet I hear often that it is Apple that invented the portable MP3 player. Odd. Feature against feature, even today the CL products still beat the Ipods, and at a cheaper price point to boot.

I was looking and following Creative's mp3 players a while back. Then I forgot about it. When I took a look at their website again recently, I noticed that Creative has tons and tons and tons of different models.

They seem to keep releasing new models in a short amount of time whereas the ipod releases minor updates, but the form still stays the same. I think the ipod is able to win market share by this way.

Creative has so many models you don't know which is an improvement over which and how it is different other than memory and different shape of the player.
Titivillus
QUOTE(æon @ Nov 23 2006, 03:44 PM)
Moleskine notebooks seem to be as iconic as a notebook will probably ever be, but we all know that they aren't perfect, particularly the paper in them. However, Moleskine notebooks generally seem to be, to many, the best mix of features and construction out of the hordes of wannabes. Now, from my interest in design, I see a similarity between the Moleskine and the Ipod: they're not perfect, but everyone and their cat will still choose them over other brands. I think both have got close to that magic point where the design of the object is so pleasing that people will overlook any defects just to have one. I would suggest too that being part of 'the culture' plays no small part; they confer something of an instant cool by association. What do you think?

I just got an ipod nano after my ipod mini bit the dust (don't ask). And the big selling point for me was that the ipod feels sturdy. It has a metal case and not a bunch of tiny buttons. The interface is intuitive and easy to work. and it fits nicely in the hand making it easy on a plane ride to work the buttons.

There might be some thought that there was alot of time thought about the packaging so there must have also been time on the internals.

The moleskine that I have now is in line after an indian paper notebook then an italian both of which were larger making it not as easy to carry it around. The pocket mole is again the right size for me to take quick notes, grocery lists and journal in. I like the gride so I can draw on it and the color and thickness of the paper gives it a vintage feel which I like.

so I might group them together as items that I like because of their form and function and if I could find something similar for a cheaper price I would give it a try but so far the things that I find important are contained in these two items.


K
MartiniPundit
I find it interesting that for every 'hit' product there is an anti-reaction. It will often be justified by price or quality or something, but it essentially boils down to "I won't buy that because the crowd is." Thus one feels special for being "smarter" and "non-conformist." Funny how that's marketing too, just more subtle. wink.gif
jsonewald
As far as Moleskine's go, I use the pocket size because the overall quality is high, and the size and style is perfect. I do think they are overpriced, but there is no readily available euivalent. Books-A-Million has a slightly larger competing product at about half the price, but it is only available at those stores.

As far as iPods go, I resisted them for a long time because they seemed to be such a cult item. I also wnet through several other brands trying to find one that worked without strange quirks. After getting an iPod for my daughter, and working with it to get it set up for her, I realized what an outstanding job Apple did making the iPod such a transparently usable device. It is not perfect, but as far as ease of use and functionality, it is light years ahead of everything else.
london
QUOTE(Betty @ Dec 2 2006, 03:39 PM)
They seem to keep releasing new models in a short amount of time whereas the ipod releases minor updates, but the form still stays the same. I think the ipod is able to win market share by this way.


...and yet, this is the one of the ways the Japanese killed off the British motorcycle manufacturers. Brands like Triumph maintained a few model lines. Brands like Honda used 'encirclement' strategy - releasing lots of different models quickly so that the competition can't focus on what they need to achieve to win market share.
Escribiente
I started using Moleskines in 2001. Back then, when you asked for them at Barnes & Noble, the clerks would look at you, asking, Moley-what? I had to place a special order. Before Moleskines, and for many years, I had used every other notebook in the market, but I didn't find one that had the four features I needed: 1. Inconspicuous, 2. Small, 3. Ability to lay flat, and 4. Narrow lines. In other words usability and aesthetics.

Moleskines fitted perfectly, and I have not looked back. It was a great surprise when Moleskines started to pop-up all over the place. It is a great turn of events. First, because I can go a pick one up around the corner. Second, sooner or latter we'll see cheaper copy-cats--which, if they are as good, I will certainly buy.

Regarding iPods, my experience has been similar. I tried a number of mp3 players before, and it was a chore to update them, their interface was clunky, and their overall look bore the marks of a scaled down design. When I used the first iPod, it was clear to me that they were the perfect combination of form and function. I haven't looked back either.

Does it bother me that a lot of people use Moleskines and iPods? Why should it? As long as Moleskines and iPods combine usability with aesthetics bellow a reasonable price, I don't really mind. It doesn't mean, of course, that I follow the masses. Hundreds of millions around the world use Windows in their computers; I don't. I used an operating system that combines usability + aesthetics + reliability--which you are entitled to if you are going to put your work there.
Green Maned Lion
I have been an apple user since I started touching computers around 2 and a half years of age, and Apple is a very unusual company. They lost their direction in the 90s, and finally got it back when Gil Ameilo made the mistake of buying NeXT computers, thus acquiring Apple's co-founder Steve Jobs, who summarily showed him the door. For Amelio's career, it was a mistake, but for Apple, it was... the best thing that could happen.

Moleskine, Mont Blanc, and Apple have something in common: they are brands that certain people love to hate. Apple's core product, regardless of how much the iPod and iTunes have helped their bottom line, is the Macintosh computer. In the last 6 years, Apple's Macintosh has revolutionized not only the exterior design of computers, but industrial design in general. The idea that a computer should look really good in addition to work really good was the iMac's gift to the world. How many bazillion products have you seen with the ice-over-tranlucent-bright-colour scheme?

Before Apple's iPod, MP3 players were.. a toy. CD players were more practical. Apple did what Apple has always prided itself on doing: provided an integrated solution. What makes Apple's Macintosh different than other computers? Apple designs the internal hardware, the computer, helps develop the functioning parts, builds the computer, and writes the software that runs it all. Everything in an Apple computer has been designed and built with that computer in mind. Dell markets component parts assembled by another company.

Apple makes the operating system that runs the computer they themselves build. Half of the problems, probably more, that PC users have that Mac users do not is because of that simple integration.

What Apple provided with the iPod was the player, a way to hook it to the computer, and the software to make that happen easily. In the case of Mac users, that software is integrated into the operating system running on a computer specifically designed for it. And unlike all the other products on the market, despite its flaws, it just works.

When Apple releases a product, it tends to have atleast one feature that makes everybody look at themselves and say "WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT?"

Moleskine makes a notebook that just works. Apple really does have the best product on the market, in almost every segment it plays in. Yeah, they are expensive. You get what you pay for. The computer I am writing this on is 5 years old. I have yet to have a problem with it. And its a laptop. And I am a careless college student.
Latro21
as far as im concerned, the ipods have one major fatal flaw, and i dont plan on buying one until its resolved: the integrated battery. you can kiss my ass if you think im going to pay $400 for an mp3 player and have to chuck it in the trash once the battery wont hold a charge anymore.

since my mp3 player is my cell phone, i really stopped paying attention to the ipods after a while, so im not even sure if they took care of that yet or not.
john.reiss
QUOTE (Latro21 @ Mar 11 2007, 10:24 PM)
as far as im concerned, the ipods have one major fatal flaw, and i dont plan on buying one until its resolved: the integrated battery. you can kiss my ass if you think im going to pay $400 for an mp3 player and have to chuck it in the trash once the battery wont hold a charge anymore.

since my mp3 player is my cell phone, i really stopped paying attention to the ipods after a while, so im not even sure if they took care of that yet or not.

No, and they probably won't. One problem with MP3 players is size. If you use a rechargeable, removable battery in one, then the device becomes much bigger. Notice the other hard drive-based MP3 players out there: they all use polymer lithium-ion batteries. While I understand your point, companies have to look at the larger demographic: do they choose to have a larger product that appeals to the DIY geek, or do they appeal to the chic buyer who needs the smallest, latest and greatest? It's a tough question to answer and that is why so many companies fail to make it in the MP3 market. As for the topic of Moleskine's being like iPod's, yes they are. I will continue to use both until I find something that fits my needs better than those two products.


(Although I wish Moleskine would just use one type of paper.....argggghhhhh)

All the Best,
John
Taki
They work together well, too biggrin.gif
user posted image

I agree, Moleskine and iPod are similar. I also agree with Latro21, it seems like a lot of waste for $400 device to have battery that cannot be replaced easily. On the other hand I think small electronic devices such as PDAs and MP3 players are out of date after a year or two, about when the batteries start going.
dcom
QUOTE (Latro21 @ Mar 11 2007, 05:24 PM)
as far as im concerned, the ipods have one major fatal flaw, and i dont plan on buying one until its resolved: the integrated battery. you can kiss my ass if you think im going to pay $400 for an mp3 player and have to chuck it in the trash once the battery wont hold a charge anymore.

No need to toss it, there are companies that sell batteries for the iPod that either you can replace (they give you instructions and any necessary tools) or send off to be replaced. It's not all that expensive either, something like $40-$50 if you DIY and the new battery will last longer than the original, per their advertising.

<sorry to get off topic>
maryannemoll
My own theory is simple. Both Moleskines and Ipods are very simply and elegantly designed, and are very reliable, and each and every part is of good quality.

But they are NOT equal to the Montblanc fountain pens.
elena
I use nothing but Moleskines for my journaling, and have several sizes in the waiting, my preference being the large. I have used fountain pens, mostly in fine point, without any issues. I love my M(s), and everyone I have gifted them out to are now hooked on them, as well.

In my attempt to try other brands, I bought several Miquelrius and Clarefontaines. I couldn't get pass the glare of the white paper and the lines being wider. So I am going to gift all of them out.

As you can tell, I love gifting notebooks and pens. Everyone loves them. happycloud9.gif

I also have several ipods.
Titivillus
QUOTE (maryannemoll @ Mar 12 2007, 08:23 AM)
My own theory is simple. Both Moleskines and Ipods are very simply and elegantly designed, and are very reliable, and each and every part is of good quality.

But they are NOT equal to the Montblanc fountain pens.

I think the comparison does not work the other way around.

both Ipod & moleskines are NOT equal to the Montblanc fountain pens. laugh.gif for the additional price gives something in return. biggrin.gif
john.reiss
QUOTE (Tytyvyllus @ Mar 12 2007, 11:06 PM)
QUOTE (maryannemoll @ Mar 12 2007, 08:23 AM)
My own theory is simple. Both Moleskines and Ipods are very simply and elegantly designed, and are very reliable, and each and every part is of good quality.

But they are NOT equal to the Montblanc fountain pens.

I think the comparison does not work the other way around.

both Ipod & moleskines are NOT equal to the Montblanc fountain pens. laugh.gif for the additional price gives something in return. biggrin.gif

Unless of course, there is an iBelt-Buckle out there somewhere. lticaptd.gif
Momomar
Here's a funny thing.

Not long after falling into this forum I found myself reading about these mysterious moleskines. Mole skins, I thought, what a sweet sounding name. I bet they must have soft, furry covers (the mole skin of my experience being a sheet adhesive bandage for treating heel blisters on long hikes in ill fitting boots).

I reviewed them online and saw that the local Barnes & Noble might have some, and off I went in search of this magic paper that was going to inspire my creativity and render my handwriting legible.

Imagine my surprise when I found them on the shelf - the same prim little notebooks I'd been buying for years but had never paid attention to the name! roflmho.gif

Was I cooler then?
markc
I've been using Moleskine for a little while, and have a number of different sizes. Part of my education in art school was paper making and bookbinding, specifically non-adhesive bookbinding. With that in mind, I've come to appreciate the Moleskine grid and lined books because of their cover, binding and elastic strap. I keep a bunch of small notes, business cards and random other bits in the pocket. *Yes, my notebooks are bulging at times*

I typically write with the Parker 51 (fine) and find the paper in them to be quite nice. No feathering, bleeding or blotching.

I would be interested in finding out about other manufacturers. I was thinking of finding a very good quality paper and binding it myself.
rosey
Here's a tip for Moleskine fans wanting to save a little money.

Borders Rewards.

Sign up. No fee. Coupons are emailed to you. Save money on Moleskines.

I have used their 25% and 30% off coupons for all types and Moleskines purchased there. What a deal!

I am still not a big fan of Moleskine paper though. Rhodia and Clairefontaine are so much better!


Djehuty
I've been thinking of trying a Moleskine notebook, not because it will make me "cool," but because from what I've seen it's a useful design for a travel journal/notebook/whatever.

If I thought there were any danger it would somehow make me cool, I'd never buy one! Fortunately, I'm safe. No power in the universe could cool-ify me. biggrin.gif
jmkeuning
QUOTE
As far as the Ipod, I ditched mine and gave it to my intern. He's smitten with it, and I then had an excuse to buy what I really wanted: a 60GB Creative Zen Vision: M as a replacement.


That's what I'm talking about!
pressurewave
Overall, the main reason I have a collection of Moleskines that I've scribbled through over the years was, at first, because I was given one as a gift, and I still buy them because they're locally available. Really, I prefer Rhodia paper and notebooks, but I have to order them online. Ah well.
donwinn
QUOTE(london @ Nov 24 2006, 04:22 AM) [snapback]183329[/snapback]
QUOTE(RetroTech @ Nov 23 2006, 10:41 PM)


I would further the equation like this:

Moleskine = Ipod = Montblanc

Most people think that each is the best brand in its category, and won't do any further research to verify. That's fine with me, as my choices are generally less expensive due to this line of thinking.

Regards.


I'd very much agree. But in a slightly different way.

I think Ipod and Moleskine are very similar in terms of what their brands stand for. But, I think Mont Blanc equates to the other two, but not in terms of what the brands mean. Moleskine/Ipod = creative, edgy, "I'm different (well, apple were originally'). Mont Blanc = important. Though, a MB FP (as oppossed to a BP) would probably have more overtones of creative, but only in certain markets.

The crux of branding, is that brands create an emotional connection with the consumer. This is what they are designed to do.

Whilst, we do not really know how brands work psychologically, much brand building effort is spent around developing this emotional response.

A core aspect of brand building and measuring the equity of a brand are 'emotional' benefits and 'self-expressive' benefits.

Both these are commonly confused by brand builders within simply 'emotional' response. Yet, there are subtle differences that are valulable.

A consumer in a BMW might 'feel important' (emotional benefit), but they might have bought a BMW to look important to others (self-expressive benefit). In the UK the MB brand is probably equivalent to BMW.

In the instance of Ipod, Moleskine and Mont Blanc these emotional AND self-expressive benefits are quite clear and obvious. And this is part of why these brands have been so successful.

According to Zig Ziglar, in his sales books, the job of a salesperson is to first educate the prospective buyer on the features of the product, then to lead them into an emotional decision. He maintains that purchasing is an emotional decision, rather than a purely knowledge-based decision. The fact that branding occurs seems to lend credence to this position. Do I want to drive "The Ultimate Driving Machine", or a bread and butter minivan? Do I want a cup of coffee from Starbucks, or from Denny's? Do I buy my produce at Albertson's, or Whole Foods Market? Do I drink French Bordeaux, or two-buck Chuck (Charles Shaw Red wine from Trader Joe's)? In all these cases, branding has more to do with emotional decisions than informational decisions.

I have not tried a Moleskine. I might do so, and if it meets my needs, will use it, in spite of the "coolness factor". Using a fountain pen is certainly not something I do to be "cool". I just like the way they write, and I like fiddling with them. It's almost a pipe smokers mentality. People do not smoke a pipe to get the nicotine, like they would a cigarette. There is a ritual and a procedure to smoking a pipe: The selection of the right blend of tobacco (ink & Paper), the correct type of pipe (Pelikan, Waterman, Sheaffer pen, Joby pipe, Kaywoodie pipe) proper tamping technique, proper lighting technique (match or lighter?). One does not just pick up a pipe and smoke it, like it was a cigarette, just as one does not just pick up a fountain pen at the store and write with it. There is a "culture" which goes with the fountain pen user, the pipe smoker, the BMW driver, the Starbucks drinker, the oenophile (wine connoisseur).

My natural bent is to try to locate a lower cost, lesser known alternative to the majority opinion. I really like my Reform Calligraph, which is very similar to my Pel 200, but cost me $22 including shipping. I love my Duke and Hero Chinese pens, but I also deeply love and respect my Parkers and Pelikans.

But, at home we have Macs, because, as stated elsewhere in this thread, they just work. I have a Master's Degree in Comptuers and Education, which I earned in an MS-DOS world. My adherence to DOS/Windows lasted as long as it did from an emotional attachment, not because it was more effective, because it wasn't. Mac OS 10 is basically Next Step 1992, and Windows Vista is not-quite Mac OS 10.1, while OS 10 is on 10.3, heading for iteration Tiger, which is a quantum leap ahead of Panther, the current version.

Donnie
AndyHayes
For me it comes down to the design. It's black, its (relatively) robust and the styling agrees with me. I have a shelf full of them.

What I have to say is that when I give one to someone who knows nothing of the brand they comment on its quality. It is one of those things that you can give to people as a gift that costs little, but rarely fails to impress. I used to give stainless steel cafetieres. Before that it was Maglite Solitaires. Maybe Pelikans tomorrow!!
john.reiss
QUOTE(AndyHayes @ Jul 3 2007, 07:18 AM) [snapback]324489[/snapback]
For me it comes down to the design. It's black, its (relatively) robust and the styling agrees with me. I have a shelf full of them.

What I have to say is that when I give one to someone who knows nothing of the brand they comment on its quality. It is one of those things that you can give to people as a gift that costs little, but rarely fails to impress. I used to give stainless steel cafetieres. Before that it was Maglite Solitaires. Maybe Pelikans tomorrow!!


So ummmm how does one get on this gift list of yours??? lticaptd.gif
AndyHayes
QUOTE(john.reiss @ Jul 3 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]324517[/snapback]
So ummmm how does one get on this gift list of yours??? lticaptd.gif


You only have to be a special person, but I'm afraid only my opinion counts here!!
RandyDodds
QUOTE(donwinn @ Jul 1 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]323886[/snapback]
QUOTE(london @ Nov 24 2006, 04:22 AM) [snapback]183329[/snapback]
QUOTE(RetroTech @ Nov 23 2006, 10:41 PM)


I would further the equation like this:

Moleskine = Ipod = Montblanc

Most people think that each is the best brand in its category, and won't do any further research to verify. That's fine with me, as my choices are generally less expensive due to this line of thinking.

Regards.


I'd very much agree. But in a slightly different way.

I think Ipod and Moleskine are very similar in terms of what their brands stand for. But, I think Mont Blanc equates to the other two, but not in terms of what the brands mean. Moleskine/Ipod = creative, edgy, "I'm different (well, apple were originally'). Mont Blanc = important. Though, a MB FP (as oppossed to a BP) would probably have more overtones of creative, but only in certain markets.

The crux of branding, is that brands create an emotional connection with the consumer. This is what they are designed to do.

Whilst, we do not really know how brands work psychologically, much brand building effort is spent around developing this emotional response.

A core aspect of brand building and measuring the equity of a brand are 'emotional' benefits and 'self-expressive' benefits.

Both these are commonly confused by brand builders within simply 'emotional' response. Yet, there are subtle differences that are valulable.

A consumer in a BMW might 'feel important' (emotional benefit), but they might have bought a BMW to look important to others (self-expressive benefit). In the UK the MB brand is probably equivalent to BMW.

In the instance of Ipod, Moleskine and Mont Blanc these emotional AND self-expressive benefits are quite clear and obvious. And this is part of why these brands have been so successful.

According to Zig Ziglar, in his sales books, the job of a salesperson is to first educate the prospective buyer on the features of the product, then to lead them into an emotional decision. He maintains that purchasing is an emotional decision, rather than a purely knowledge-based decision. The fact that branding occurs seems to lend credence to this position. Do I want to drive "The Ultimate Driving Machine", or a bread and butter minivan? Do I want a cup of coffee from Starbucks, or from Denny's? Do I buy my produce at Albertson's, or Whole Foods Market? Do I drink French Bordeaux, or two-buck Chuck (Charles Shaw Red wine from Trader Joe's)? In all these cases, branding has more to do with emotional decisions than informational decisions.

I have not tried a Moleskine. I might do so, and if it meets my needs, will use it, in spite of the "coolness factor". Using a fountain pen is certainly not something I do to be "cool". I just like the way they write, and I like fiddling with them. It's almost a pipe smokers mentality. People do not smoke a pipe to get the nicotine, like they would a cigarette. There is a ritual and a procedure to smoking a pipe: The selection of the right blend of tobacco (ink & Paper), the correct type of pipe (Pelikan, Waterman, Sheaffer pen, Joby pipe, Kaywoodie pipe) proper tamping technique, proper lighting technique (match or lighter?). One does not just pick up a pipe and smoke it, like it was a cigarette, just as one does not just pick up a fountain pen at the store and write with it. There is a "culture" which goes with the fountain pen user, the pipe smoker, the BMW driver, the Starbucks drinker, the oenophile (wine connoisseur).

My natural bent is to try to locate a lower cost, lesser known alternative to the majority opinion. I really like my Reform Calligraph, which is very similar to my Pel 200, but cost me $22 including shipping. I love my Duke and Hero Chinese pens, but I also deeply love and respect my Parkers and Pelikans.

But, at home we have Macs, because, as stated elsewhere in this thread, they just work. I have a Master's Degree in Comptuers and Education, which I earned in an MS-DOS world. My adherence to DOS/Windows lasted as long as it did from an emotional attachment, not because it was more effective, because it wasn't. Mac OS 10 is basically Next Step 1992, and Windows Vista is not-quite Mac OS 10.1, while OS 10 is on 10.3, heading for iteration Tiger, which is a quantum leap ahead of Panther, the current version.

Donnie



Again, you state the issue as I see it as well, as in life we make are choices based on what we feel and expressively to others. I like things for reasons based on feel good and not as clones, nor to sustain with the Jones.

Randy
RandyDodds
QUOTE(donwinn @ Jul 1 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]323886[/snapback]
QUOTE(london @ Nov 24 2006, 04:22 AM) [snapback]183329[/snapback]
QUOTE(RetroTech @ Nov 23 2006, 10:41 PM)


I would further the equation like this:

Moleskine = Ipod = Montblanc

Most people think that each is the best brand in its category, and won't do any further research to verify. That's fine with me, as my choices are generally less expensive due to this line of thinking.

Regards.


I'd very much agree. But in a slightly different way.

I think Ipod and Moleskine are very similar in terms of what their brands stand for. But, I think Mont Blanc equates to the other two, but not in terms of what the brands mean. Moleskine/Ipod = creative, edgy, "I'm different (well, apple were originally'). Mont Blanc = important. Though, a MB FP (as oppossed to a BP) would probably have more overtones of creative, but only in certain markets.

The crux of branding, is that brands create an emotional connection with the consumer. This is what they are designed to do.

Whilst, we do not really know how brands work psychologically, much brand building effort is spent around developing this emotional response.

A core aspect of brand building and measuring the equity of a brand are 'emotional' benefits and 'self-expressive' benefits.

Both these are commonly confused by brand builders within simply 'emotional' response. Yet, there are subtle differences that are valulable.

A consumer in a BMW might 'feel important' (emotional benefit), but they might have bought a BMW to look important to others (self-expressive benefit). In the UK the MB brand is probably equivalent to BMW.

In the instance of Ipod, Moleskine and Mont Blanc these emotional AND self-expressive benefits are quite clear and obvious. And this is part of why these brands have been so successful.

According to Zig Ziglar, in his sales books, the job of a salesperson is to first educate the prospective buyer on the features of the product, then to lead them into an emotional decision. He maintains that purchasing is an emotional decision, rather than a purely knowledge-based decision. The fact that branding occurs seems to lend credence to this position. Do I want to drive "The Ultimate Driving Machine", or a bread and butter minivan? Do I want a cup of coffee from Starbucks, or from Denny's? Do I buy my produce at Albertson's, or Whole Foods Market? Do I drink French Bordeaux, or two-buck Chuck (Charles Shaw Red wine from Trader Joe's)? In all these cases, branding has more to do with emotional decisions than informational decisions.

I have not tried a Moleskine. I might do so, and if it meets my needs, will use it, in spite of the "coolness factor". Using a fountain pen is certainly not something I do to be "cool". I just like the way they write, and I like fiddling with them. It's almost a pipe smokers mentality. People do not smoke a pipe to get the nicotine, like they would a cigarette. There is a ritual and a procedure to smoking a pipe: The selection of the right blend of tobacco (ink & Paper), the correct type of pipe (Pelikan, Waterman, Sheaffer pen, Joby pipe, Kaywoodie pipe) proper tamping technique, proper lighting technique (match or lighter?). One does not just pick up a pipe and smoke it, like it was a cigarette, just as one does not just pick up a fountain pen at the store and write with it. There is a "culture" which goes with the fountain pen user, the pipe smoker, the BMW driver, the Starbucks drinker, the oenophile (wine connoisseur).

My natural bent is to try to locate a lower cost, lesser known alternative to the majority opinion. I really like my Reform Calligraph, which is very similar to my Pel 200, but cost me $22 including shipping. I love my Duke and Hero Chinese pens, but I also deeply love and respect my Parkers and Pelikans.

But, at home we have Macs, because, as stated elsewhere in this thread, they just work. I have a Master's Degree in Comptuers and Education, which I earned in an MS-DOS world. My adherence to DOS/Windows lasted as long as it did from an emotional attachment, not because it was more effective, because it wasn't. Mac OS 10 is basically Next Step 1992, and Windows Vista is not-quite Mac OS 10.1, while OS 10 is on 10.3, heading for iteration Tiger, which is a quantum leap ahead of Panther, the current version.

Donnie



Again, you state the issue as I see it as well, as in life we make are choices based on what we feel and expressively to others. I like things for reasons based on feel good and not as clones, nor to sustain with the Jones.

Randy
wednesday_mac
My 4G iPod lasted two years before the hard drive began skipping and no amount of reformatting, updating, what have you would work. Of course Apple would have repaired it for the cost of a new iPod.

On the other hand, my Moleskines will be there, perfectly fine, even after I die.

Stupid iPod.

This is why I work on an Apple Gsomething with Panther, but at home I prefer HP, baby. And fountain pens.
andyk
Never tried a Moleskin. quite expensive in the UK and from what I had read the paper wasn't great. Generally I use note books from work as that is where I do most of my writing/note taking (also available cheaply from various places) they are fine for wht I need, no feathering with most inks I have used, only problem is Noodlers seems to take ages to dry, but then it does on other paper too.

I also prefer Creative MP3 players to Ipods, I have had a Creative Touch for about 3 years and despite having thousands of tracks on it still have plenty of room for more (has a 40Gb hard drive).

Andy
Bill Smith
I buy the original Moleskines because they are great little notebooks to write down ideas in and act as an external hard drive. I don't own an Ipod as I don't like being cut off from my surroundings.

dvorak
I use moleskines. I adore moleskines. I adore them despite the fraudulent advertising in the cover flap (ok ok the part about Chadwin in true, but the Hemmingway and Van Gogh stuff is totally bogus). I'm a fan because it has the best overall design of all the notebooks I've seen.

I've never seen another moleskine in the wild, I'm a bit confused about all the brand talk, I was not aware that it was a known commodity, pity.

I have switched to the sketchbook versions though, when I'm in Starbucks listening to my iPod, writing with my Mont Blanc - I don't want any bleed through...

Brent
finalidid
The thing I don't get about I-Pods is, what are people doing with them? Listening to music? Why? I personally can't stand the idea of "canned" music on little teeny cheap speakers. I guess I might spend a zillion dollars on ultra perfect concert quality headphones, in which case I might go ahead and "use" digital music in public somewhere. But then I wouldn't want to be using a mere MP3 file, that being a compression type thing that loses a lot of the information. I'd insist on a bigger file, so again I wouldn't be interested in using an I-Pod, even if I DID have excellent speakers.

For me, music is an active, live event. I want to hear the train rattling down the tracks while I'm riding it. Last thing in the world I'd want, is some ear-buds crammed in my canals making me even more oblivious than the modern world already tries to make us.
Artbeast
I think the fact that you put Moleskines and iPods in the same sentence is interesting and agree with you on their cult status.

It is interesting because at this moment we are designing modular bags for circa notebooks and MacBooks/MacBook Pros and including in the modular part pockets to fit the small Moleskine and an iPod... pocket knives and pen loops too. Just goes to show that others are grouping those two items together as basic gear. We have also built a whole line of leather covers and pouches around the Moleskine books because of their cult like status.
succubus
I use Moleskines for their standardization, ease of availability, and sizing options. While I have more Moleskines than other brands (although not by much at all), I am by no means limited to Moleskines. I have nearly as mainy Clairfontaines (more if you include Rhodia & Quo Vadis), Apicas and Koyukos.

I never had an iPod until recently. I used to keep music on a memory card in my Treo 650.

QUOTE(finalidid @ Jan 21 2008, 09:55 PM) [snapback]487055[/snapback]
The thing I don't get about I-Pods is, what are people doing with them?


I got an iPod Nano primarily for working out. I use the Nike+ system to track my runs. I can, and have, run with my Treo, but the Nano is smaller and less valuable in case of an incident. I also will probably connect the Nano to my car stereo at some point, which would not be possible with the Treo.

Also, with the Treo, people used to call me during my runs. I cherish my away-from-phone time.

QUOTE
Last thing in the world I'd want, is some ear-buds crammed in my canals making me even more oblivious than the modern world already tries to make us.


I invite you to spend any amount of time commuting in NYC, being stuck in transit surrounded by a cacophony of people yammering banality, at the top of their lungs, into their cellphones. I prefer even a tinny version of Nina Simone to that.
gigipurple
"Moleskine makes a notebook that just works. Apple really does have the best product on the market, in almost every segment it plays in. Yeah, they are expensive. You get what you pay for. The computer I am writing this on is 5 years old. I have yet to have a problem with it. And its a laptop. And I am a careless college student.
[/quote]

I agree with everything you said about Apple products. I've been using Mac computers since I bought a Mac Plus back in 1989. Loved that one and loved every Mac computer and Apple product I have bought since. Now I'm running Parallels and Windows in one of my Mac computers because there is one particular task that I need to do for work and I can only access it through Internet Explorer. I only use it for that, and go right back to the Mac OS. It works as a virtual computer inside the Mac, so I don't even have to reboot. It's great!

Going back to Moleskine, I do like these notebooks very much. I've tried different types of Moleskines and various other notebooks. My favorite overall remains the reporter style. I also use Rhodia notebooks, but it's a different story. These have very good quality paper in the sense that it doesn't bleed through. But some of my pens don't want to write on it. They slide through the paper and the ink doesn't come out. Still, the wetter pens work very well on Rhodia paper. Now the paper of the Moleskine goes well with most of my pens and inks, and I have less problems with it than with Rhodia paper and pens not wanting to write on it. I also love the creamy colored paper and the thin lines, the black hard covers, and the elastic band that holds everything together. It is very well designed and it works. Yes, just as Apple products. Gigi
acesfulldc
QUOTE (finalidid @ Jan 22 2008, 03:55 AM) *
The thing I don't get about I-Pods is, what are people doing with them? Listening to music? Why? I personally can't stand the idea of "canned" music on little teeny cheap speakers. I guess I might spend a zillion dollars on ultra perfect concert quality headphones, in which case I might go ahead and "use" digital music in public somewhere. But then I wouldn't want to be using a mere MP3 file, that being a compression type thing that loses a lot of the information. I'd insist on a bigger file, so again I wouldn't be interested in using an I-Pod, even if I DID have excellent speakers.

For me, music is an active, live event. I want to hear the train rattling down the tracks while I'm riding it. Last thing in the world I'd want, is some ear-buds crammed in my canals making me even more oblivious than the modern world already tries to make us.


To each his own. Some people enjoy being immersed in the goings on around them, while some people prefer to shut it all out during their morning commute. When I worked in downtown DC and took the metro to work, some days I preferred to stay alert to my surroundings, some days I just wanted to shut out the din and have some peace until I arrived at my final stop.

I certainly can't take issue with your choice to avoid being "oblivious." However, if the only reason you don't "shut out the world" is a concern over the lack of sound quality, all of your concerns are valid but easily surmountable. With the massive amounts of capacity in today's personal media players, the loss of sound quality due to compression no longer an issue for most audiophiles. For instance, iTunes allows you to import music in a "lossless" format, which is, in most instances, very close, if not equal, to CD quality. All other music management software programs that I know of allow the same functionality. As for "little teeny cheap speakers," those too are easily a thing of the past for most audiophiles. You can purchase very high quality headphones in a variety of styles (over the ear, closed, open, earbuds, in-ear-monitors, etc.), many for quite reasonable prices. I have a pair of Etyomotic ER4Ps which offer a nearly flat frequency response and are so clean and transparent that I hear something new, even in songs I've listened to hundreds of times, every time I use to them. They offer around 25dB of passive sound isolation (by functioning as sort of ear plugs), which blows the Bose QuietComforts out of the water and means that classical, jazz, and acoustic music with these earphones is a revelation. My Shure se550's are just as clean, but a little warmer, with additional bass. They also offer a high level of passive sound isolation, so rock, R&B, and pop music through these earphones are a joy as well. True, nothing compares with a live performance, but when that is not an option, you can come very, very close without spending a ton of money.

If you're interested, as with fountain pens, iPods, Moleskins, pipes, and any other hobby, there is an entire subculture dedicated to getting the best possible sound out of digital media players. Check out the chatrooms on head-fi.org. No affiliation, etc., etc.
wednesday_mac
Let's see.

I use the Moleskine knockoff by Markings. I began using Moleskines (and bought two), but they cost more than I'm willing to pay. Markings does just as well for half the price. (Available at Target and Wal-mart... I can feel the shudders from here. wink.gif

I do have an iPod, but am also a graphic designer who listens to music all day while I design, so it's a necessity and not a luxury. I killed the first one I had after two years of listening, 8 hours a day, five days a week. (The hard drive died.)

I would not have bought another Apple, but I didn't feel like converting every music file I had over to MP3. I also bought the iPods at Costco and couldn't care less that they are made by Apple... except that I wish they weren't.

When this one dies, I will probably get an MP3 player that holds a lot more files. And bite the bullet to convert the iTunes files to MP3.

lovemy51
someone gave me a moleskine and i don't use it. i do not own an ipod. i have four monblancs, not one is a fountain pen, they were given to me as gifts... i use them very seldom... i think i'm abnormal wacko.gif
AfterMyNap
This thread is great, a real smattering of humanity!

I do love Moleskines, I found them a long time ago in what I called my local, "stinky" bookstore. I loved that store with its creaky, uneven, old wooden floors. But, here's my conundrum:

I own an iPod but it lives in my car's glovebox where it plays through the stereo. I use it for Podcasts, PBS audio documentaries, and only carry it when listening to national park tour podcasts. So, am I hiding my inner iPod lover-self?

I keep my Moleskines in a cover when active and a cabinet once filled. Am I denying my status by not displaying them prominently?

As far as product identity, iPod and Moleskine have consistently provided me with what I want. I don't own a MB FP for to me, Montblanc is to pens as DeBeers is to diamonds— marketing.
Pippin60
QUOTE (maia @ Nov 23 2006, 05:35 PM) *
I have almost finished my Large Notebook and to be honest I don't find the paper terrible at all (and this is writing with a juicy nib). It doesn't feather. The only thing one may not like is that the pages are too thin, thus you can see what's written on the other side (and even this isn't too bad IMO).


Moleskines remain my favorite notebook and I personally don't like clairefontaine, or rhodia paper. What I love most about Moleskines is the bindings and formats available which for me makes up for some inconsistent paper. However I was in a pen/paper store today (Essence du papier in Montreal) and I was told that they are now made in China. This may be common knowledge but was news to me.

To the topic at hand I think the only device that comes close to an electronic notebook is my PDA. My ipod touch is for music and games.
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