Maybe the person who bought that $1500 Snorkel Demonstrator can add this PFM to the collection: http://cgi.ebay.com/SHEAFFER-PFM-V-GREEN-F...1QQcmdZViewItem

Interesting!

Jon

I've been watching that one. Just slightly out of my range now, I think :ph34r:

There's something fishy about this auction. I can't believe that even an inexperienced buyer would put in a "scorched earth" size bid -- must have originally bid over 500 for the pen, and that just makes no sense.

Added: Please note -- I am in no way saying that I think the seller is doing anything "fishy." Buyers can do whatever they want with their money, but in this case I really have to wonder what is going on.

Hmm...maybe he doesn't realize he's bidding in GBP? -- Then again, anything's possible on eBay, like someone listing a similar item (with a very poor description and photo) and someone buying it for a steal.

Hi, with regard to the last post. I am the seller of this pen and do take offence in what you are saying that there is something fishy about this auction, implying that I am doing something wrong.

I am not in control of how much people wish to bid on my pens, but granted this is an exceptionally high price and wait to see if the highest bidder does pay. Will keep you informed.
Tarapen

I don't think Bill was implying that you personally were doing something wrong. I read his post to mean that something is fishy because it is a bit shocking. However, we've all been known to get caught up in the bidding frenzy. Besides, in commerce the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it. Good luck with your auction and I hope it turns out well for you!

Hi,

Speaking (of course) only for myself: it didn't even occur to me to impute any questionable behavior to the seller. And the buyer, naturally, is free to spend as much or as little as he/she may wish.

I was simply arching a virtual eyebrow over the heights to which the bidding had risen...particularly in light of another recent Sheaffer auction that ascended into a similarly rarefied atmosphere.

For my part, I wish you every success with the auction.

Cheers,

Jon

Hi all, really appreciate your comments and will keep you informed as I too think it has gone a little crazy.

Sorry, if I seemed a bit hyper-sensitive but I take great pride in my pens.
Tarapen

That comes across in your photos - always very nicely taken shots - unfortunately for the rest of us, that means you usually get good prices for things - excellent news for you, though

I've read that the green PFMs are quite unusual, so I guess you might just have a couple of collectors desperate to complete a set.

Thanks Michael

I do take my time to get the best pictures as know a picture speaks a thousand words.
Tarapen

Did anyone look at the bidders in that auction...right now bidder 6 has the highest bid and bidders 1-5 are being outbid...It may not be a problem with your auction, but someone is jacking with you.

I wasn't referring to any misbehavior on your part, and never intended for anyone to draw such an inference.

Hi Bill
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated, sorry for being hyper-sensitive but all this has got me a bit confused. As I said will keep you all informed regarding the pen and payment etc.
Tarapen

I hope you do get paid. Not that I have any reason to think you won't. (Buyer's Remorse is sometimes a powerful deterrent to pushing the "Pay" button. Also Buyer's Spouse. One never knows.)

All of this high bidding could be a harbinger of things to come. I've long felt that Sheaffer was the most under appreciated of the Pen Companies. Why some Parkers sell for over 1000 dollars on eBay is beyond me. And when a Parker collector get his hands on a vintage Sheaffer he or she may be asking themselves that same question.

PeteWK

Well it has ended at $968.18. An amazing price for a PFM... one can only hope that this is a harbinger of things to come for Sheaffer pens....
I might actually be able to make some money on some of the pens I have for sale... LOL

I couldn't agree more! in regards to our recent threads; look at the Autograph models. what other brand can give you solid 14k trim, slick looking conical 14k nib, and a choice of filling systems, for under $100 on Ebay. I've bought several pen/pencil Autograph sets lately that are all under this price range. Heck, my NOS Autograph pen/pencil set were $70 with the stickers still on them! A decent Parker Vac will cost you more than this, with trim that may be slightly brassed.
Also, when you consider a 14k Masterpiece 3 piece set just sold on Ebay for a tad over $500, with no dings or problems other than the filler needing restored, that is certainly a sign that higher end Sheaffers are undervalued at the moment. Personally, i'd be shocked to see this trend continue; people will certainly start paying mind to their pens, and their prices will rise accordingly.


Doug

Hi all,

Just a quick update - as expected I have not received payment for PFM or received any communication from the buyer yet!!
Regards
Tarapen

If the buyer is located in the USA, the delay could be related to the Thanksgiving holiday, which is one of the busiest periods for travel and shopping. The day after Thanksgiving is the official start of Christmas shopping here (known as "Black Friday") so your buyer may be out of town or out and about holiday shopping. It's just a thought...

Good luck again, and I hope the deal goes through. That would be a nasty bruise on someone's feedback if it doesn't.

Hi all,

Still no payment on my PFM, chap is from Italy. Also just looking around ebay and found two PFM V's (same as mine, green and blue) and noticed the price was fairly high.

I looked at who was bidding and noticed the same two bidders, just bidding on all the chaps auctions. Look at the history

http://cgi6.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...userid=siamkash

A serious case of shill bidding???
What do you think, very unfair I think?
Tarapen

Both of the guys seem to have minimum past ebay history --- all joined in Nov 2006. More interesting, they did not compete with each other (for the two PFM V currently available from Thailand). Very fishy.

You have put your finger on exactly the observations that led to my "fishy" comment early in this thread. I'd bet that your bidders have prior history under other id's, too.

Hi
Here is what I have worked out, which I think is very fishy
lacostepi has been on 65 items of peaantiqe and siamkash and no-one elses and victo9 has bid on 89 items in the past 30 days. None have received feedback and have noticed that they have not bid on any other pens.
something very strange going on.
Tarapen

I see what they have done now. They bid a high price and then cancelled the bids just before the end to see how much the second highest bidder is prepared to pay. Very sneaky.

Another fishy acts: they both currently withdrew from the highest bid, and became the second highest as of now.

Bidding has ended and the poor bloke has paid an extra $100, this is so wrong.
Tarapen

I'm really quite new to eBay and to be perfectly honest what I'm reading is scaring me a bit! You read all the info and warnings beforehand but it seems you can never be certain. . . .
I think my pen buying will more or less be restricted to straightforward sales, but if we all take this approach out of caution decent vendors will miss out and we'll miss out on some good buys.
Like so many things in life, it's so easy for a few to spoil things for everyone else.

Do you think that we (or I) should report them on ebay just based on this kind of suspicious behavior?

I'm relatively new to eBay as well, and it's really off-putting to see this kind of activity going on before my very eyes. One would think (or hope) that eBay would have some mechanism in place to track this sort of thing -- particularly if it's happening consistently with certain IDs.

In the 2 months I've used eBay, I've never placed a bid amount that was more than I was willing and able to pay. I've been satisfied with the items that I've won and have had no regrets about items that were eventually sold to a higher bidder.

This type of activity is always in plain view -- no super-sleuthing or high-tech equipment required. Given the volume of activity, eBay will always raise the excuse that they cannot scrutinize all suspicious activity or that ultimately there is "insufficient evidence" to pursue the bad apples. Eventually though, that excuse will wear thin with legitimate buyers and sellers. I did a cursory Google search and read that eBay actually reins in "anti-shilling" groups who report this type of activity. Oh the irony...

All the more reason to place your bid at the last minute so you don't get involved in this sort of silly game.

Yep, that's what I've been doing now...

I can understand a seller bidding up an auction by a fake id or getting a friend to do the same, but what are these people hoping to gain when they don't know the seller? Not meant to be a dig at anyone, I just don't understand it.

Opinion:

Sometimes they are just nasty and enjoy shafting the person who gets left holding the bag. Or messing with the seller.

Sometimes they may enjoy the "attention" they get (who knows, they could be on this board watching this thread and rolling on the floor, squealing in delight like the immature little pigs they are).

Sometimes they may be kids who have nothing better to do.

Once in a while they may be attempting a scam of some sort (although there are far easier ways to cheat people out of their money or goods, steal identities, etc.)

lacostepi bought siamkiash's filigree overlay Wateran (forgot to withdraw his bid?)

See Waterman 1

Ended Nov. 17

The item was relisted with the same description Waterman 2

and guess what - lactostepi (the guy that theoretically failed to complete last time) bid on it again.

I suspect lactostepi and simkiash are no further away than left and right hand.

I have bought one thing from this character, and did it on a buy it now. If I did want to bid on one of his items, I'd so it at the last minute so as not to allow any jiggery pokery, but I would tend to shy away from his auctions.

Hi all,

Still keeping up with my investigations and see the two bidders are still bidding on siamkash.

Have found a site where you can put an auction number in and it shows who is bidding etc.

http://www.auctionpix.co.uk/shill/140055364953.html

Not sure what to do, do you think we should report or keep our noses out. Just think it is totally unfair. I keep seeing some ebayers that are paying more than they should. Any suggestions??
Tarapen

Hi,

I wouldn't presume to give advice, tarapen, but one thought did occur to me.

Since many so-called "shilling" schemes ultimately inure to the benefit of the seller, I think - if I were in your position - I might report the incident. That's one convincing way to rebut any suggestion (concededly utterly unfounded) of complicity.

I think, on balance, I would probably do everything reasonably possible to distance myself from the conduct and the perpetrators.

Just my two cents' worth. As I said, I wouldn't presume to give advice to a party who is directly involved (and one who is a victim of the fraudulent behavior).

Best,

Jon

Reporting the conduct is probably useless. However, you might want to bar these (this) character(s) from bidding on any of your future auctions.

I wonder if lactostepi and victo9 are bots.

Thanks for the interesting link. As far as not being sure about what to do, I'm with you there. I wanted to post something about this on the Trust & Safety (SafeHarbor) Discussion Board but I don't sell anything on eBay, and my post would most likely be cast in the light of an aggrieved buyer, even though I've never bid on nor bought any item from this particular seller. Even so, after reading a few posts from the SafeHarbor Board, it ironically didn't seem to be the proper forum to discuss this matter -- that board appears to be rather tense and hostile.

Every time a buyer pays more for an item because of this type of activity, it rewards the wrong behavior. So it'll continue to happen again and again. The onus to do something about it should be on eBay, but as others have already pointed out, eBay has no financial incentive to do so really. Their only motivation would be a public relations one, but eBay tends to focus on "higher profile" scams. Add up each and every transaction where this type of activity occurs, and arguably, it's a bigger scam altogether than the handful of scams that eBay pursues and likes to boast about in its press releases.

As far as bidding the last few seconds, I don't see how that would counter or deter the practice of shilling and thus avoid an inflated final price. If items are listed for several days, doesn't this practice continue throughout the duration of the listing? If so, then ultimately the price of the item (set by that last second/winning bid) is still in the aggregate, which includes the improper bids. Perhaps I just don't quite understand how it works, but I don't understand the logic that one can avoid being affected by a bidding scheme if you bid at the last second.

The reality is that other than "SpeerBob" who is a reliable thailand seller. I would NOT buy from any Thailand sellers!!!!

There are a lot of pens put up by thailand sellers.
Every time one of these EBay fraud discussions pops up on a board it is almost always involving a Thailand seller!!
CAVAT EMPTOR!

Well obviously it wouldn't save you from bid inflation before you bid, BUT when you did bid, you'd know how high it was and how high you would be willing to bid, and by not bidding earlier, you don't give the shills the chance to bid above your bid, right up to your maximum, then withdraw that bid leaving you dangling much higher than you would have been.

At least they don't have time to try and find out what your maximum is - the auction is over too quickly.

I have bid well before auction end when I have to be away, and have seen some twit keep on bidding me up by small increments (not shills, just newbies I think) until the end bid is much higher than it would have been if I'd been able to drop one bid in during the last 5 seconds.

Hi Folks

Could someone please interpret the bid history on this item for me? The bidders are all listed as Bidder 1, Bidder 2 etc. (providing, one assumes, anonymity) yet the winning bidder is clearly identified on the listing page.

eBay's explanation at the top of the 'bid history' page:

>As the internet evolves, eBay continues to strike a balance between preserving transparency and protecting our Community of members. eBay has decided to change how bid history information is displayed so bad guys cannot target bidders with fake offers using this information. In certain cases, some bidders will no longer be able to view Bidder User IDs on the Bid History page. Your User ID will be shown only to you and the seller of the item you're bidding on. Other members will see an anonymous name, such as Bidder 1, applied consistently to the Bid History page.<

makes little sense, as usual . And how does hiding behind an alias, such as 'Bidder 1', protect anybody - the sellers or other bidders? Transparency is what protects us all in this game - it's our only security. If I'm buying or selling anywhere, let alone eBay, I want to know as much as I can about the other party(ies).

For my part, I loathe the idea of 'User ID kept private' auctions and won't touch them - I won't even put them on my 'watch list'. Why private?

And what about the nonsense of 'feedback kept private'? Again, who is that going to help? These are all tools which aid the bad guys.

Let's hear it for transparency!

Regards,

Nick

PS My eBay username is 'doctorcornelius' - same as on this board. I am not a Doctor of anything - Doctor Cornelius is a character in the book 'Prince Caspian', by CS Lewis.

Well, one of my favorite subjects, eBay and their total lack of concern for buyers.

As stated before in another thread, eBay does not, and will not, come to any ones rescue.

“Shill” bidding is so rampant it smells all the way to TN. I had a seller in Washington State who had people in Korea and the Mediterranean (aboard ship) screw with my bids and items for sale. I actually got one of them to admit to the scam, contacted eBay and they did nothing. On top of that when the seller started getting bad feedback she went private, what good is feedback if you can't see it?

You have noticed that eBay does not give out their phone numbers…?
If you ever find a phone number that works, please post it.
And everyone use it.

Sometimes I have a hard time reconciling a run up on my maximum bid that stops at that precise amount of my bid. And of course under eBay rules, he who bids first wins. It makes me feel that someone has figured out a way to somehow see what is supposed to be private.

I have also dealt with "SpeerBob" and will continue to do so because I know him to be a very good seller and an outstanding person. I have a hard time the past 2 or 3 years taking a chance on new sellers from any part of Asia. There are those who I trust completely, but untried I stay away from.

The problem is eBay!!!!!!
They will not spend the time or money to police themselves, and that boys and girls is the problem.

Look at it this way: If we can see the problem, why can’t eBay with all the profit and computer power they have.

What is left to us? E-mail complaints is the sum total of our power as users. Because to stop using eBay completely, won’t even be noticed.

eBay customer service toll-free number: 800-717-3229

(You can also use this number to access PayPal - I think it's #3 in the menu.)

Hope this is helpful!

Jon

Hi All,

Just an update regarding my PFM. just heard from the buyer stating that he placed the wrong bid amount. So have cancelled the transaction and will relist the pen. do believe it was a genuine mistake.

.

Thanks for all your comments on this matter. Really appreciated.
Tarapen

I am not sure if it is an "honest" mistake. let's assume that the one who bits on your listing is the same one who sold his PMF V recently (at $300). A way to achieve a high price is to prevent other people from getting it anywhere else with a reasonable price --- if $900 is the price, $300 is certainly a bargain.