Here's a couple of questions about flexible nibs.........

Having read numerous posts along with Richard Binder's excellent material, I have come to a couple of conclusions. My purpose in writing is to ask if I have interpreted things accurately.

Flexible nibs were very common until the late 1920s/early 1930s when more business users began using carbon paper and as such, needed pens which could be used with greater pressure.

Today's flexible nibs, to the extent that flexible nibs are still in production, tend to be made of the same metal and material as regular nibs but cut in such a way that the tines are thinner and longer. In this way, the tines have less support and spread more easily. Presumably the nibs should still have a long life before metal fatigue sets in.

Were earlier flexible nibs made from different alloys so as to have a greater springy-ness?

To what extent have the composition of metal alloys used in nibs changed over the past 100 years or so? Would this account for greater "flex" in some of the older nibs?

To what extent is there market demand for flexible nibs -- and if there is demand, why don't the manufacturers respond by making nibs more like the type found more commonly in the early 20th century?

Okay, have at it. I've asked questions before and received excellent and insightful answers. Looking forward to everyone's response.

I thought flex nibs had to be of a Gold alloy - preferably 14K

That's all I know on the topic, i'm afraid :doh:

There is a visible difference between my vintage and modern flex nibs. When I use inks such as PR or Noodler's on my modern flex, it doesn't get discolored at all, but the vintage ones turn reddish, then purple, then ultimately a brilliant blue after prolonged exposure to the stuff. (It can be easily wiped off with toothpaste, thank goodness!)

There aren't many flex nibs being made because most people don't know how to wield them properly nowadays, I think.

I'm sure others will have more intelligent things to say about this..lol

-Hana

Edit: P.S. Both my modern and vintage flex nibs are made of 14k gold.

I don't have much to add, except that not only gold is flexible. Real flex can be had with steel too - as this photo of my very flexible Japanese Shiro nib shows.

I don't *know* any of this, but I remember (partially) what people who do know have said.

Antonios, who posts on this board, did a fine article on materials for flex nibs. I'll see if I can locate it, and add the URL -- if I can't, someone will. As I recall, the gist is that steel can be a good material for flex nibs, but the best 14k alloys can be better; there's a lot of overlap. I also remember Nathan Tardif, who really gets stuck into things, posting that he thought the precise composition of the alloys for the old time flex nibs was no longer known. Presumably also heat treatment would have some effect, and back in the day this would have been an art, not a science, with the knowledge in people's heads and eyes, not in manuals and software.

I have often read people talking with great respect of the steel nibs made by Montblanc and Pelikan during WW II. I've never used one of these, but IIRC some were flexible.

The normal explanation for why modern makers don't produce really flexible nibs is that they are too easy to spring, and the modern consumer wouldn't accept that that was the user's fault, not the manufacturer's. Too much hassle for a small market.

Best

Michael

EDIT: antoniosz's article: http://www.pentrace.net/penbase/ Article #418 (listed under category MATERIAL)

Second EDIT: on rereading the article, I see I had misremembered, and gold (the right alloy of gold, that is) has a clear advantage over steel for making flex nibs. The advantage, however, is much greater for 14K than for 18K, and as the carat race (and French legislation) is pushing people towards 18K as the norm, this might be another (minor) reason for the decline in flex.

My next FP purchase won't be for quite a while (due to recent multiple purchases celebrating graduation), but I have my heart set on trying a flex nib next.

I am a curious boy, and to be sucked into getting a flex nib is....inevitable

Flexible nibs are fun to use and discuss Here is a list of old threads that have a wealth of information:

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...wtopic=9617&hl=
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...st=0&#entry3791
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...t=0&#entry59256
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...ndpost&p=134610
http://www.pentrace.net/penbase/Data_Retur...icle.asp?id=418
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...showtopic=15754

To summarize first let's say that there are indeed differences between some of the old and new gold alloys but
I dont think, anyone has studied this in detail. Now as to the eternal question on which material is "best" for flex,
let me repeat that you can make a flex nib from any material...
Turkey feathers have been used for centuries Inexpensive flex dip nibs are still made of steel but they corrode easily...
But more modern ones (like Micheal's Shiro nib) are not corroding easily
Yes, some gold alloys appear to have an advantage but it looks that we are looking into absolutes
(i.e., maximum tines opening, infinite resistance to corrosion, and infiinite fatigue life).
To this, I want to add that (i) there are no long term fatigue data that I know of, (ii) there are plenty of
stainless steel nibs that survived and will survive for very long time (decades, centuries? maybe),
and (iii) most importantly best flex is not maximum tines opening.

Although we show off and drool over ultra flex (e.g., see http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...9344&hl=illegal)
the optimum flex is different and it varies from person to person depending on their writing speed and pressure.
I have summarized some of these ideas in this post

Also the ink play an integral role to best flex. I have seen tremendous performance differences from ink to ink on the same pen,
as the ink tends to define the clarity of the thin lines, and cap help or ruin them.

Finally as to why they dont make them - do forget that Parker and Sheaffer made a fortune by switching from the early flex
nibs to the nail-stiff nibs of Duofold and Lifetime flattops and Balances. It does not provide the extra return
that companies are seeking. With flex nibs we are taking about a small fraction of an already small market of
consumers that are bargain hungry Why would they want to spend the money to develop/improve (and service) flex nibs?

You are an outlaw!

This is a great reference compilation of the flex topics. Thank you so much Antonio!

And Phthalo, that photo of the Shiro nib is just about the coolest thing ever. Me want!

Gorgeous photo! What ink is it?

Interesting and informative answers. Thanks to all who have helped. Others, please feel free to add more information on this. Any perspectives are welcomed!

David

My eyedropper *was* inked with Sheaffer Skrip Turquoise... but being an eyedropper it soon leaked at the section, so now it's empty while I look for silicon grease.