There can be little doubt - especially among American collectors - that the best fountain pens (in my considered opinion) are as follows:

1921 Parker Duofold (U.S.A.) Era of the great fountain pen arrives
1924 Sheaffer Flattop (U.S.A.) Competition for greatness is joined
1929 Sheaffer Balance (U.S.A.) Step towards a streamlined future
1933 Parker Vacumatic (U.S.A.) Parker competes for the future
1941 Parker 51 Vacumatic (U.S.A.) Modern design comes of age
1948 Parker 51 Aerometric (U.S.A.) One of the best pens ever
1952 Sheaffer Snorkel (U.S.A.) Best pen ever race is joined
1956 Parker 61 (U.S.A.) Capillary filling arrives
1959 Sheaffer PFM (U.S.A.) Pen for Men lives for 10 years
1960 Sheaffer Imperial (U.S.A.) smaller PFM style - drops snorkel
1962 Parker VP (U.S.A.) the precursor to the 75
1963 Parker 75 (made in U.S.A. then in France) one of the greatest for 30 years
1966 Lamy 2000 (made in Germany) innovation at the highest level- still around
1976 Sheaffer Targa (U.S.A.) Great inlaid nib lives on in many finishes
1984 Parker Premier (made in France) 75 for the elite
1984 Sheaffer Connaisseaurs (made in U.S.A.and England) remake of classic
1991 Sheaffer Crest (made in U.S.A.) rebirth of the conical nib
1984 Waterman Le Man (made in France) Waterman produces a classic
1993 Cross Townsend (made in ?) Cross delivers a heavyweight
1993 Parker Sonnet (made in France) The Parker tradition is reborn in France
1995 Sheaffer Legacy (U.S.A.) Rebirth of PFM with a more correct name
2004 Cross Verve (made in ?) Incredible futuristic styling

The best two of all of the above are easily identified by the quality, sales, popularity (check out posts to this forum) and survivablility:

The Parker 51 (Vac & Aero)
The Sheaffer Snorkel (Valiant, Clipper, Statesman, Crest,& Sentinel)

That American fountain pens ruled the world is obvious
- sad that the only Fountain Pen still manufactured in the USA today is the Sheaffer Legacy (well worth owning).

A Parker 51 or a reconditioned Sheaffer Snorkel are the best writing instruments one can possess - they will continue to work flawlessly (with a little minor maintenance) thru the ages..

I won't argue whether those are good pens, because they are; but your claim that they are "the best" is only valid within ten yards of your own house. There is lots of doubt about that list being "the best", especially on the more modern pens. And sales numbers don't show much about quality - otherwise McDonald's would be "the best" among restaurants.
(Sales numbers do show that those pens were available and popular, but that's not the same thing.)

Hey, I like McDonalds!

Unfortunately, when you have small kids, McDonalds, Burger King and Red Robin is about as good as it gets for dining...

TMann

It really isn't possible to comment on such a statement unless you are willing to define what is meant by "best."

What? No Esterbrook?
Cross Verve?

Are you serious? You didn't mention Waterman even once!
What's the matter? Are you a Waterman hater?

George Kovalenko.

:ph34r:

Me too - but that doesn't make it the best.

Let me think about Waterman -

1920 Waterman #52
1927 Waterman Ripple No 7
1934 Waterman Patrician
1942 Waterman Hundred Year Pen
1984 Waterman Le Man


Sorry I have them all but none belongs on the list - few of the Waterman lever filler's survive - maybe an eyedropper can be had that still works. The ends crystallize and fall off of the hundred year pens. The lever fillers have an inherently defectivive mechanism thanks to Sheaffer patents. The Le Man is a pretty nice looking pen but I have never written with one even thought I have eight or nine of them somewhere around here. I have a Patrician but have never used it either - doubt if many would consider it - since they are hard to find and the plastics they are made of make them a poor investment.

Is Mc Donald's a target - does that represent an attack on America. Sorry but America made the best pens even if we have been put out of business by the wonderful culture coming from BIC. I did notice when in Paris -some of the best food (breakfast anyway) was in Mc Donalds.

Also I guess vintage MB and Pelikan are not in the picture, right?

Incidentally

I have a rare 52 BHR with a rare intact lever/box. How much should ask for it


Do you have a Made in USA Sonnet? I would love to have one.

I guess you knew what you were getting into with such posts

I think this thread might be less flame worthy if you tempered your proclaimation with " In my opinion.."






So any of the Bexley pens are not worth owning. Interesting...

Ahem....have you not heard of Bexley?

James P.

I love the Parker Sonnet Pens and the ones I have used write beautifully and do not have any of the problems I would associate with lesser fountain pens. I never said that my list of best pens were all pens manufactured in the U.S.A. However, I did think the position of these pens - in the hearts of Collectors - makes the U.S.A. the dominant manufacturer of the best fountain pens the world has ever known.

Definition of Best - writes immediately when picked up - even after sitting for a few days. Doesn't leak ink onto the rug or leave ink on the fingers. Writes consistently well from filling till empty. Survive the test of time, still perfectly good after 50 years after manufacturer - possibly with new sacs, and seals. Easy to repair - or not necessary to repair 50 years after manufacturer. Beautiful designs, quality parts, quality manufacturer.

Sorry about overlooking Bexley - I did not say any pen was not worth owning. But give me a break - Parker, Sheaffer, Bexley - most collectors would grab the Parker Premier or the Sheaffer PFM.

Sorry I left out the Parker Premier (1984) - now that was a bad mistake - and yes they are manufactured in France. The Parker Premier and the Parker Sonnet are the last two Parker's which seem true to the great designs of the Parker Pen Company.

Of course we are giving you trouble, but you asked for it ....
But how about vintage MBs or Pelikans?
I can think of many solid, dependable Japanese pens that really fit your definition.
I can also imagine Andy will show up to give you a shout or two about his favorite CS...

No, of course McDonald's is not a target - I was merely showing you that your logic was not quite right. I don't want to attack America. I want to attack the logic you just misused, that's all.

To use another example, going by numbers sold, Bic would have to be a far, far superior pen to a Snorkel. Obviously that's silly - showing that sales numbers have very little to do with quality.

I have FOUR , all filling and writing beautifully. Must be sitting on a goldmine ...

What about Mabie Todd/Swan? I suppose you may find the later UK production unworthy, but the earlier US models that I've seen work pefectly and look magnificent.

Pelikans - not in Best list - wait a few years and the mechanism will fail. I had one 50 years old - sent it back to Pelikan for repair - sorry can not be repaired. The Pelikans piston fill mechanism will become useless with age. Better sell them on ebay now while they still work - if they still do.

Waterman #52 - definitely a Classic - but not in the Best list - poor lever filling mechanism - most did not survive a hardened sac. Doubt if the BHR have much value to anyone. Definitely will eject ink if slightly shaken - can mess up carpets if not careful with them. Nice Flexible nibs - I find Sonnet nibs flexible enough for me.

Japanese Pens - Pilot has made some nice pens. Sailor probably makes nice pens also but too expensive for me to try. Neither has been a big hit in U.S.A. Do not believe many American Collectors are interested in them.

Best List is from the outlook of American Collector more interested in the 1950's and 1960's pens - the Real Golden Age for the American Fountain Pen industry - as it tried to stay afloat in the world of disposable ball points.

The best pens currently available in my opinion are the Sheaffer Legacy I and II s currently very available on e-bay for less than $100. Made in U.S.A. - TD mechanism (with cartridge option - ugh!), Inlaid Nibs, PFM styling, beautiful Lacquer finishes. They may be the end of the era of American Dominance in the Manufacturer of fountain pens - did I forget Bexley again.

Look - this is simple. You are saying "My favorite pens are the best. Off the top of my head, I will make up reasons why other pens are not as good."

What's the point of that? So, they're your favorites. Thanks.

And as for American collectors I am curious as to who exactly you represent as I consider myself an american and a collector and do have a different list than you do.


Yep you forgot Bexley again but at least you admitted that it is your opinion. I am sure other people will chime in comparing.


K

Not to mention trying to send any 50 year old pen back to the manufacturer for repair! Come one, let's be realistic. 1950s and 1960s USA fountain pens are not repaired by the original manufacturers either...

A Pelikan with a failed piston mechanism can be repaired by any decent pen repair guy. I know, because I had a heirloom fixed for someone about two years ago, which was a 50 year old Pelikan. He actually has used it everyday since.

Warm regards, Wim

Wonder what that repair to the Pelikan cost. Funny Pelikan has not changed the mechanism in 50 years but they can not repair them. To repair a Sheaffer snorkel it takes replacement of the sac, and two seals which take around 45 minutes or less to do yourself - you do not need to send it to the manufacturer. As late as the early 90's Parker was fixing 40's 51 pens. The repair to the Sheaffer costs around $4.00 at most for parts. I do like the Pelikan clips and I have a few M800's around here somewhere but I would not put them on the Best list. The Lamy 2000 is another great pen and was very modern back in the 1970's when I first picked up a few of them in Germany. I believe Mr. Lamy started out with the Parker Pen Company in Janesville, Wisconsin before setting up the innovative line of Lamy Pens in Germany.
I do not believe there are a lot of SWAN s (Mabie Todd) in the U.S.A. I believe they were manufactured here back in the 20's. I once had a solid gold (9K) made in England which I traded for my first Big Red Duofold Pen and Pencil set - I wish I had kept the SWAN pen but I was not sure I could fix the twist filler.

You know... The best fountain ever is the one my grandfather used to write with, the exact same one Richard B. restored so magnificently, the exact same one that I am using to write a poem about the best fountain pen ever...

In my humble opinion, which by the way is very much my own and which I shall gladly keep withing ten yards of my own house.

The best fountain pen, my friends, is the one you love to use. Let's not forget that. ^_^

These sorts of "best" posts are never to be taken seriously, are they ?

I used to frequent another (non-pen) site where one guy was forever posing inflammatory ideas just to stir the pudding, and people always took the bait.

I'm just glad I have a free choice and my own ideas - and whether you agree or not is of little matter, but the reasons why we differ are more interesting.

For example, is it really true Waterman levers break down? Why? Why do Sheaffer Triumph nibs last half a century of daily use, getting smoother by the decade? etc. etc.

Much more value to an enquiring mind that "my one is better than yours!" or have I missed something?

Chris

Just figured out MB - Mont Blanc. In my opinion you pay a lot for what you get.
I only know what I hear - a status symbol more than a serious pen. I do have a 149 but have never used it - impressive size especially the nib - not very practical to use. Not sure MB s will survive the test of time any better than my old Pelikan did - doubt repair would be any less expensive than the pen originally cost. Have never seen a serious American collector of MB - but I guess it is possible. Did see a 149 at an Estate Sale recently - not in the best of conditions- no box - they wanted $350 for it - not such a great deal in my opinion. MB will not be found on my best list.

Although the initials are commonly recognized as representing the fountain pen, they lead to a very common error in spelling. The company name is Montblanc, as are the pens etc.

Regards,

Gerry

If not a trollish post, this is certainly a naive one. I think the advice to preface some of these assertions with a note to indicate it is ones own opinion is a good one.

If the best food you ate in France was in McDonalds, I suspect you must really have upset some French waiters!

Ray
(who has a rather different list of what he considers the best pens but recognises how subjective any such is bound to be.)

I agree with Ray.This thread is a waste of time, IMHO.

Have a good day!

TMann

I believe the response to this thread (for the most part) reinforces the correctness of the Best list offered at the beginning - which has since been slightly modified.

Surprised no Wahl-Eversharp comments - they made some beautiful fountain pens - few have survived the rigors of time- I collect the Skylines but most break when trying to replace the sac.

I am thinking the Waterman LeMans belongs on the list so I will go back and add it in - especially the beautiful woods this pen was made in.

Not sure about some of the criticisms but they seem to come from a certain group which is unable to propose any changes. Still glad they contributed to the thread.

I will admit that a few of the pens on the list may not belong - for instance the Parker VP has a few problems but it was the lead in to the Parker 75.

Also I love the Parker T1 but would not put it on the list because they write terrible and they are hard to find. But no other pen I know of is made of pure titanium inside and out - including the nib.

Then there is the Lamy 2000 - very tempted to put it on the list - let me think some more about it - definitely one of the most ingenious designs in fountain pen history and they are wonderful writers.

Glad we've provoked some thought. Just remember it's YOUR list, not OUR list, nor THE list. It is 'correct' only insofar as it represents your opinions and preferences.

Ray

Okay, then, it seems we're all agreed that, based on those criteria, the best all-time ever fountain pen is without any doubt or quibble the Parker 51 Aerometric. Thanks to all for playing!

P.S. - As opinion laden as such a thread inherently is, I'm a bit taken aback that some could get so backed up and negatively serious. Lighten up, opinions are like ... well, you know ...

Sorry dd6874,
I wholly disagree with your list. Let me just say that I don't want to offend you but this 'canonical' list is totally subjective and randomly put together.

What about the original Toledo from Pelikan? I think nobody would doubt that it can stand next to the Parker Duofolds in terms of fame. However, it's much more beautiful than any Duofold I have ever seen.

Well, I think Cross is a really solid pen manufacturer. But I don't think that Cross's pens are the cream of the crop in terms of fps. Their nibs are ok, but they are small and don't feel very exclusive. Only because Cross can be found at any better stationery doesn't make them the best pens ever.

In your list you didn't even mention Wahl (Eversharp) pens. They made such good and beautiful pens.

What about OMAS, Conway Stewart, Dupont, the early Montblancs, Tibaldis?
Nobody wants to take away your darlings or demote them to the rank of inferiority but I think there are so many great pen companies out there that produce excellent pens.

My collecting interest at the moment is to get as many different brands from different countries. I love the different characteristics of French, German, American, Italian, English pens etc.
Expressing your national pride by means of fountain pens is questionable to me. I relish your enthusiasm on American pens, but I relish even more the diversity of pens from different countries.

I am primarily a vintage pen person... my favorites being the Parker Vacumatic, 51 Vacs and Sheaffer TDs and Snorkels....
Personally the PFMs don't do much for me..... but that is just my opinion....
Same as others don't like the 51s...

BUT, as far as new pens go, I doubt you are going to find a better US manufacturer than Bexley. The range of pens offered is fantastic... even the least expensive pen is a fantastic writer and well worth owning....
You mention that most collectors would grab a Parker Premier or the Sheaffer PFM. That might be true.... BUT not all the writers on this site are collectors...
There are a great many who just want a great writing pen and the Bexley fits the bill on that. Also stating that most collectors would grab a Parker Premier or the Sheaffer PFM is just your opinion.... personally I own neither and have no intention of obtaining either.

Several replies have implied Bexley was a pen I overlooked and that it was made in the U.S.A. - but is that true - I just dusted off a Bexley I had stored away and I do not see made in U.S.A. anywhere on the pen.

Bexleys are made from start to finish in Columbus, Ohio. The nibs are made in Germany, though. It doesn't say "made in the USA"on the pen, but there's a sticker with that information on the white outer sleeve in which the box is shipped.

Actually not just implied but stated as fact.

I am suprised that as your list is suppose to be the best of US pen manufacturers that you don't know all of the companies that make pens in the US.


Makes me take the entire validity of the list with a huge grain of salt.


But then again that's what happens when personal opinions are given as fact.


K

While that list is, of course, based on mainly opinion, it does include some of the notable advances in FP technology.

I would agree that the best pens were made in the late 40's and early 50's in competition with the newly arrived ball points -- this was the time when people used them every day, and a properly working, non-annoying pen was a requirement. By that time, metalurgical science had produced very nice nibs (Parker and Sheaffer exemplify this, but everyone else making nibs had access to the same information, by and large). They fill reliably, are easy to repair (one expected to use a pen for decades then, not just toss it when it ran dry), write effortlessly, and are rather stylish in a subdued way. No flashing lights or ringing bells, or loud pre-recorded messages shouting "look at this fancy expensive pen I'm flashing around".

After that, FP became something other than work-a-day tools, and sales dropped off dramatically. This resulted in somewhat less extravagance in manufacture to keep costs down -- the collector vanished from Parker pens after the 45 (I think, may still be there is some minor form in later models), the Triumph nib morphed into the inlayed Sheaffer nib and shrank, and so forth. Prices rose as sales dropped off, and the pens became more and more specialty items, with con-commitant use of extravagent decoration (gold filled bodies, silver bodies, etc). Only the "school pen" lines maintained high sales, and they were not top of the line, if adequate performers.

Modern "monster nib" pens aren't the same. They may indeed work well, but they are not "best" pens to my mind, as they are not actually intended for mass market use. I've got a few Chinese pens, and as far as writing goes, they do fine, but they lack the feel of a 51 or Snorkel/TD from the 50's. Should last forever (all metal in some cases), but as far as best, well, one should try them side by side and see.

Naturally, what is "best" for one person won't be for another necessarily, but as far as function goes, it's going to be VERY difficult to beat either a Parker 51 (or the 21 Supers) or the Sheaffer Snorkels. Effortless writing feel, easy filling (especially the Snorkels), and they appear to last forever. Made of the very best materials available at the time (with some errors -- polystrene becomes quite brittle in some designs), superb execution of excellent designs, meant for the daily grind.

While I'm sure there are many other pens of similar age, they by and large are just other pens, whatever the name or initial cost. I don't intend to imply that other makers produced inferior pens, as Pelikan has been making very nice pens for many years, Montblanc has survived as well, but those are niche pens, not workhorses, however good they are (and they do appear to be quite reliable). Neither is anything other than a typical pen design, circa 1950 -- open nibs, plastic comb feeds, some mechanism for pulling ink into a reservoir. Technologically, nearly identical to dozens of other designs out there, nothing extra-ordinary. Fine pens, just not a standout technically. Esterbrook, Watermans, Wearever, Arnold, no-name, they all used designs distinguishable only by the quality of detail and excecution (and I do NOT intend to imply that a Wearever from 1955 is in any way the equivalent of a Watermans of similar age!!).

The Parker 51 and Sheaffer Snorks really do, to my mind, represent the peak of fountain pen design. No other pens have quite the same level of design or complexity aimed at ease of use and reliablity, with the same level of accomplishment.

The golden age has gone.

Peter

I'm not sure where to start with this, but pens certainly improved mechanically over time, so at least for the pre-cartridge era, I think the Parker 51 aeromatics and Sheaffer snorkels were at the pinnacle when it comes to great writing, innovative "classic" pens. Both have withstood the test of time for durability and each have stong followings. On the the other hand there are plenty of other pens that are at least as historically important and many that are asthetically sexier, particularly the multi-colored Vacs, Balances, etc. from the 30's. Utlimately, of course, with all the great pens out there this debate can go on forever. One thought- since cartridge/converters are the norm nowdays and therefore leveled the playing field, I wonder which of today's pens will be seen by future collecters as the "great" 21st century pens... Jeff

Mind if I ask 'Best' in what way?
Hawk :ph34r:

I have my collection split into three "tiers". Tier one is the cream of the crop, the best writers, the best made, the ones that always write perfectly (of course all in my opinion), these pens sit either on my desk in a pen rest, or in the glass top case just to my left, inked and ready to go.

Tier two are the second best pens, all still great writers, all still very nice, just not as nice as tier one pens.

Tier three pens are almost never inked, used very rarely, and I would never consider them for serious correspondence. They are fun to play with, but they are really just play toys.

Your "best fountain pen" list of which "there can be little doubt" houses eight pens I own in tier three, and two pens I own in tier two....one just barely. As a matter of fact, one tier two should be demoted tomorrow if what I think will arrive, arrives. None of the pens you mentioned are in tier one at all. As a matter of fact, not one pen manufacturer you listed is in tier one at all.

Both of the ones you mentioned as "the best two" are indeed easily identifiable, and are relegated to tier three.

Isn't it great to share different opinions?! It is simply fantastic that so many pens are made that our opinions can vary so widely.

Allan

PS. I am an American and a collector just in case you were wondering :-)

The best pen? My Sailor 1911M of course. How do I know that? I know everything! Just ask my teenage daughter!

I don't think there is a best. There might be a worst, but best is very subjective.

I'm late walking into this thread, but do think most of here hold these truths to be self-evident (or at least, I do):

--The fountain pens from the golden age (early 1920s-early 1960s) are sublime, and generally write better than their modern counterparts. They were designed and built so well, that we're still using them for what they were made for 50-80 years after they first left the factory.

--Some pens from this period — the Balance, the Duofold, the Vacumatic, the "51," the Snorkel — held up better than other pens.

--Other pens, such as the Waterman Patrician and Hundred Year Pen and the Wahl-Eversharp Doric and Skyline, are beautiful pens cursed by brittle plastic. It makes them no less beautiful or collectable, but they weren't as durable as the Sheaffers and Parker pens from the same era.

--As the fountain pen went from everyday tool to collectable luxury item, the form and function of pens changed.

--The pens we hold most dear are the ones that perform with a minimum of fussiness. For me, it's Esterbrook Js, Sheaffer Balances and Parker "51s." For my writing needs, they are perfect.

--While many modern pens aren't as good as vintage ones, there are a few moderns — such as the Targa and the 75 — that have become today's classic pens.

--While the age of the mass market American-made fountain pen is past, there are still great pens being made out there around the world.

--Everybody has a different reason for collecting (or accumulating) pens and everyone has different tastes in pens. My faves aren't necessarily your faves, but we love these instruments more intensely than about 98 percent of the general population, and we need to stick together.

Anyone care to add to this?

I didn't see the Sonnecken brand ever mentionned(a german brand that was Montblanc highest rival in the 30-40's), neither did I see the Unic brand mentionned, a french brand which was producing decenet quality pens and finally I will add Mentmore who did produce some nice pens. Personnally I buy pens that appeal me and that feel comfortable in my hand.

I do not believe the following brands Sonnecken , Unic , Mentmore are available in the U.S.A. The most famous brands available from Europe are Waterman (France), Parker (UK), Mont Blanc (Germany), and Pelikan(Germany). I believe the last of the great American manufacturer's Cross and Sheaffer are or shortly will be made overseas in China. I believe Waterman U.S.A. went out of business in 1957 and Parker U.S.A. closed up manufacturing around 1993. So today for all practical purposes no major company (Parker, Sheaffer, Waterman, Cross, Eversharp) is or will be manufacturing fountain pens in the U.S.A. An exception may be Sheaffer? In the U.S. apparently only the collector market provides any demand for quality fountain pens. Roller ball pens and desposable pens have wiped out the mass production of fountain pens.

Another European fountain pen which is worth mentioning because I really like it - is the Dunhill AD2000 which I believe is now out of production. If anyone has any info such as the color schemes available - british racing green, black resin, blue resin, red(orange) resin, carbon fibre, longitude, etc. and years of manufacturer and list prices - please start a new thread and post info and photos. ALso where this pen is manufacturered would be interesting although I believe the different components are manufactured in different countries.

Gosh Darn (admin is watching). There ain't but one pen I own on that list, scratch that, its a different model. Oh well, guess I will just have to muddle through.

Woops.

I have a Patrician but have never used it either - doubt if many would consider it - since they are hard to find and the plastics they are made of make them a poor investment.

Should you want to get rid of this pen with the cheap plastic and ever so many other fauls.
Just let me know

Sigh.....

Gerry

Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.


As I will never be able to try every single pen made thus far, nor will I be able to use each said pen for an extended period to check their reliability, I will never know what the "best" pen is. (and I won't believe what any of you tell me )

You need to move to Missouri Swardeen - or perhaps you come from there...

Regards,

Gerry

Tounge in cheek. Actually I've taken quite a bit of advice from the great folks on this forum and have yet to be disappointed.

Steve

What, no "profanity saver" Conklin?