Are you right-handed, scratchy?

The left slant looks a bit more 'deliberate, reflective' while the other appears more 'urgent'.

(Slant, along with Size, are among the easiest characteristics to alter intentionally, I think, so it's possibly not surprising that your slant can vary from day to day)

Looking at individual letters shows they are the writings of the same person, but, maybe just in different 'moods'?

They are both very nicely spaced and legible....I personally have difficulty with reading handwriting where the lower loops (such as in 'g' & 'y') get tangled-up with the line(s) beneath!

Thanks for your thoughts rogerb - yes I'm right-handed. I agree with you about the right slanting style being more urgent as I tend to use it when trying to write quickly and get as many words down as possible. I also reflected a little on the left slanting style. I believe I use it when writing mathematics (or at least I did in the past when I had math to do)

You have very legible handwriting with either style, Scratchy! My handwriting varies. After I switched to a cursive italic (and changed from an overwriter to an underwriter), it alters less radically, but still noticeably, depending on my writing speed and mood at the moment. Size can vary also.

I am afraid my handwriting is completely appalling! When first learning to write, I was left handed but this was regarded as the work of the devil and I was forcibly changed. My writing has been rotten ever since! My Chemistry teacher at boarding school used to look at me in pity and declared that I would have to be a doctor as no other profession would have me.
Whilst at Medical School (he was right!), I taught myself how to write using a calligraphy pen and actually did the frontispiece for our yearbook!
I am afraid my writing remains poor - the advent of computerised prescriptions has added years to the lives of the poor pharmacists in the area - but I do love writing in fountain pen and have started amassing a few more now!
My wife puts me to shame as her writing is very good and she has for the last ten years compiled a diary for my daughter written from the time of her conception (she is an IVF birth) right up to date. We have twelve full A4 volumes all in cursive script, written with her trusty Cross fountain pen.

Up until recently when I started using a fountain pen, I made no effort at all. Now, however, I am spending quite a bit of time on it. I was very rusty. I had given up on cursive long ago (more than 10 years) and am picking it back up. Since I am in this middle phase I am working to create my own writing style and so far I am quite happy with most of it. There are still a couple of capital letters that I have not fully decided on, so I am looking carefully at other styles and borrowing where I find something that appeals to me.

I have always admired beatiful handwriting in others and am desperately frustrated at my inability to make mine consistently attractive. Occasionally I get something on the page that is 'quite good' but whenever I write quickly or concentrate more on the message than the words, it becomes a scribble.
It is getting better since I committed myself to daily practise. Maybe it will never be truly beautiful but hopefully quite attractive and consisitent at least.

We subconsciously judge others by their writing and a beautiful hand hints at a degree of culture maybe.
MD

I try to improve my writing as much as possible ........

But OMG - I just saw that you have a BT for your avatar ...

From one BT owner to another, I think you would understand when I ask the question ... with that special "gentleman" in the house, where is the time ??

Anyway, I have to say ... good looking BT you got there .....

Give him (or her) a big hug from me

I try to improve my handwriting as much as possible .....


OMG ... I just saw that you have a BT for your avatar ....

From one BT owner to another .... I have to say .... where is the time when you have such a "gentleman" in the house ??

Well ... that's a cool looking BT you got there ....

Please give him (or her) a big hug from me !!

My handwriting is no good, really. I have some shining moments, but for the most part it's not that great. In kindergarten I learned how to print my letters. But in First Grade, we did what was called "Denelion" or some such, and it was torture. It was basically disconnected cursive, which we didn't learn until third grade. We were graded by the tails and such, and they had to be right. Then again, I've always had poor handwriting.

My signature is by no means unique. My mother forced me to copy hers, which is also atrocious. she simply loops the end of the last letter of the surname around the entire surname. In third Grade, she made me copy this repeatedly. I hate it, but it's very much habit at this point. I don't even know how to go about developing one of my own.

So uhm ... sometimes the end result is legible, but sometimes the only way I can tell what I wrote is by context.

That's changing soon, I hope, thanks to some advice posted around the forum.

But I won't even try italic points any time soon. I did once, and the results were atrocious. For now, I'll just focus on better legibility.

If you wish to improve, it would be good to see if you can post a scan of some of your handwriting, for constructive advice, especially from the likes of Kate Gladstone.

I have observed that almost everyone in this thread has been very kind, constructive and supportive, and that few people's writing appears as bad to others as it does to the writer!

It's not that I fear criticism. It's more that since to this point it seems I've abandoned nearly every endeavor at self improvement (the old New Year's resolution syndrome) that I'd feel like I was wasting people's time. Still, there's already a great deal of advice, and some people's writing shares similarities with mine. I've already gleaned a lot of advice this way.

I don't feel like answering. Neither of the choices seems fit to me. I think my handwriting isn't legible easily, but I think it looks nice and is definitely very original and personalised.

Yes---but so far I am made of PHAIL.

I don't do any calligraphy (shame on me, I know, I'm too dull for it) and neither does my handwriting look overly impressive, but I'm an artist (not that this defends me) and working on realism. Being surrounded by modern abstract art, I often find myself confronted with the meaning of beauty - and you said it just superbly! Thank you for the quote - I've pinned it at my gallery - and noted your name

I strive to make my penmanship entirely legible, and I work to keep it smooth...pleasant to read...so the recipient of the letter doesn't have to decipher it or struggle with it. My mother and her siblings had extraordinary penmanship; comparatively speaking, mine is merely legible. Among my peers, it seems I've given my handwriting a greater priority, possibly because computers and word processing dominate "written" communication now. I doubt penmanship is given much attention now. Neither my 22 yr-old daughter nor my 16 yr-old son received much instruction on it, but both type faster than I. We live in a different world now, eh?

Bah, what the hey ...

Several people on other forums have heard my mentioning attempting to improve my writing, and some have asked for a sample. So I made a quick example last night for some of them:

Oh, and in case anyone wonders why I used an old ballpoint for the example of what was, well ... I'm sure others of you would want to strangle me if I had so abused a fountain pen xD

I enjoy improving my handwriting. For most of elementary school, except for the times we were forced to, I wrote in print. Towards the end of middle school, I began to appreciate cursive. Now I write almost exclusively in cursive, and would never dream of going back to print. It does enter my handwriting now and then, but it doesn't please me.

Not that there isn't beautiful print. But for some reason, when the letters aren't connected, now it hurts my head to read it unless it's similar to a common font like times new roman. But people with big bubbly handwriting... I just can't read that very well. Just like some people can't read my cursive. I think everyone should strive for legibility. I've seen some horrid stuff that really should not be legal. What did they do during 3rd grade writing lessons? So I appreciate the uniformly bubbly print because I know it took some effort and/or talent. But to me beauty is in cursive, and I'm working on making my handwriting as beautiful as I can. Likely, it will be illegible or ugly to some people, but most recognize the beauty in cursive even if they can't read it... sad that people can't these days. But what matters is that it is legible for those whom I want it to be legible, and it's beautiful to me.

My handwriting has been compared to a chicken dancing across the paper, so I am tickled when I can read it later. I try to be better when using my FP for homework etc.

I always have had okay handwriting but now a days I try hard to make it look nice.

I'm impressed at how constructive and friendly every is on this thread.

May I suggest that joining the Society For Italic Handwriting might prove enjoyable and valuable.
The SIH publish a modest little newspaper 'Writing Matters' (B&W nothing fancy but useful examples of writing and hints and tips and comments).

They have a letter exchange from which I have built a wonderful collection of handwritten examples.

They publish a superb book 'Dance of the Pen' which contains dozens and dozens of different writings and shows that even italic writing can vary greatly.

And yes, I have been to their meetings and can tell you that some of the members can write beautifully and yet at a very fast speed.

You dn't have to be an italic expert to join, as is demonstrated by the kind way they have greeted my rather crabby italic writing.
To know more you can contact the Secretary and Editor Nick Caulkin at: nickthenibs@hotmail.co.uk

Or Gordon Wratten wrattens@ntlworld

It is a very friendly 'club'. Do join.
Solitaire

Having discovered FPs it's become important for me have beautiful handwriting. I don't know why, but it's so. So my vote is for the first choice of this poll. It's about one year I work on it, and I've decided to use italic script to improve my handwriting on my Moleskine diary, and this is a sample of my notes on it:

tipstricks :

IMO this is a great display of very attractive italic handwriting, well laid out and, obviously, perfectly legible. I also like the use of colour for added interest.

This is an exemplary display of beautiful writing, elevating the routine of diary compilation to a much higher level!

Thanks for posting.

caliken

Solitaire,

I used to be a member of SIH but lost touch many years ago.

I have been trying to find a copy of "Dance of the Pen" for some time, without success, as it is out of print. Do you know where I can obtain a copy?

caliken

I chose legibility as most important purely because when I look back on notes from college I find that I cannot read a good deal of what I had written. This was alright at the time because when reviewing the notes I would usually remember what it was that I was writing. However now it truly bothers me not to be able to read my own writing when I’m trying to write fast.
In kindergarten we were required to print our name and at some point during the day to copy a simple sentence a few times. At this point I could and would start with either my left or right hand and switch once it got tired. My parents were told that I would have to choose a hand and I have been right handed ever since. The next time I can remember having to practice writing was in 5th grade when the "angry old bat" took us though the Palmer method and I learned to hate writing. We were not allowed to use a pen or automatic pencil until she had approved us and I think I was one of the last in the class to become approved.
My final downfall with handwriting came with the introduction of computers combined with my poor handwriting and spelling. The computer solved all my problems, I no longer had to worry about my legibility when I wrote fast and spell check took care of the rest.
Looking back the computer solved nothing. My spelling and grammar is still poor at best, much to the dismay of my retired English teacher mother, and my handwriting is even worse. I am and always have been very sensitive to my lack of spelling ability and despite years of spelling tests I still find that only when I am forced to use a word over and over in a document am I able to spell it correctly and if I don’t use it soon after it may take flight. To compensate for this when hand writing a test or paper in class I would tend to run the misspellings together so the word looked the right length and started and ended right but you had to guess its contents.
Now it’s a constant battle to take the time to do what I avoided all these years.
BTW I had a middle school English teacher who was truly confused to the point of red faced anger that I would be the first person in the class to finish assigned book, was always reading in class, had a solid vocabulary and yet couldn’t spell my way out of a paper bag.

Now that I have produced a small paper I shall avoid answering posts at 4:45 in the morning.

Tipstricks, wow. Italian looks so good in... italic! (Well, of course.) Very inspiring and encouraging.

Doug

Congrats on the superb italic writing - and from Bologna too. How fitting.

Gordon Wratten has copies of the superb 'Dance of the Pen' . Find him at
wrattens@ntlworld

He has sent copies off to far places for me and is very obliging.
The Society for Italic Handwriting didn't print many copies (350 I think) and I doubt if it will ever be reprinted. I recommend getting a copy while they are still available.

I flip through my copy frequently - and it's a delight and inspiration

Solitaire

Thanks for the info - I've sent off an e-mail.

caliken

I'd be somewhat important, Its an essential to have good handwriting and its worht it. But you don't have to take like a million years doing one stroke.

Italic handwriting is not the same as calligraphy. Which is precise and time-consuming)

Italic handwriting is a BASIC style and it can be adapted to the personal ideas and requirements of each and every user.

THE DANCE OF THE PEN (mentioned by me above) provides dozens and dozens of examples. Every one of them is different. I have that book on my desk and find it is like a shot of caffeine - maybe a double-shot.

Give it a try. You can always add milky froth.


Solitaire

I've been struggling with my handwriting for a long time and within the last year have started to work at improvig it.
People have complained it's too small- so I now use a VP with a medium tip.

I'm also hoping that as I improve my handwriting- I can justify getting more foutain pens.

I just can't see myself writing "junk" with an exspensive FP.

I've been working on my handwriting for the last few months (coincident with a recent fountain pen obsession). I finally found a role model in a sample of Abe Lincoln's writing -- a style I like that isn't too fussy. (I even like his cross-outs and inserts.) Hopefully I can adapt it, and modernize it for my needs. I think I'm making progress. For some reason, finding a style to emulate makes the whole learning process more fun.

Now, if I could only match his prose...

Click to view attachment

Caliken, were you able to obtain a copy? I'm curious to know if indeed Gordon has access to more copies.

If you can't find it on Amazon, contact the calligraphic books-and-supplies store "John Neal, Bookseller" at http://www.JohnNealBooks.com -- or the similar store "Paper & Ink Arts" at http://www.paperinkarts.com -- ask for John Neal (at the first store) or Brenda Broadbent (at the second store) and please tell them that I referred you.

To rejoin SIH, you can find its current e-mail address and other contact-info under the heading "Calligraphic Bodies" at the web-site of its current secretary, Nick Caulkin, at http://www.nickthenibs.co.uk -- again, please tell Nick that I referred you.

I finally made contact with Gordon through Nick Caulkin and am awaiting delivery of my copy.
caliken

Kate
Thanks for the information which I am sure will be of use to others who are trying to locate this book.
I have bought a copy and am awaiting delivery.

caliken

I have the worst penmanship on the planet. Thats why I haven't made the leap into FPs yet. My hand writing is deplorable no matter how hard I try.

Sometimes, just the right fountain pen[s] will help quite a bit with a deplorable handwriting. Go to the nearest pen counter[s] and test-drive everything they've got!

I always admire beautiful handwriting, though I do not have it. Since getting a fountain pen and a brand new journal, I have committed to improving my penmanship (and my relatives will rejoice). I have not yet had much success, though. Maybe after some improvement I'll post a sample. In the meantime, I work on it when I can. FPN is great inspiration!

When I was elementary school, everyone had to use a fountain pen. In high school, however, ballpoint pens were the norm but I found them very slippery and hard to control after years of using a fountain pen (FP). I also had trouble holding them vertically enough so the ink/writing point was making contact with paper at all times. However, after years of being faced with a flood of ballpoint pens and hardly any FP around--not to mention running out of ink cartridges or not having my ink bottle handy to refill a reservoir--I succumbed to the pressure to use ballpoint pens for convenience's sake. Indeed, it's been years since I used a FP but you'll all be relieved to know I'll soon put an end to this blasphemy as I have every intention to get one soon. But I would love to be able to switch from using a FP to using a ballpoint pen without difficulty or awkwardness.

My question to all you veterans of fountain pens is: do you only ever use fountain pens or dip pens? And do you find that after writing with fountain pens for a long time, writing with ballpoint pens seems difficult because of the hold necessary, especially with a fine-point, to ensure that the writing tip keeps contact with the paper?

Wanting to improve the appearance of my handwriting is the whole reason I stumbled upon this website! Once I get the book I ordered in I plan on spending a good bit of time practicing and working on improving my penmanship.

I use only fountain pens or dip pens. I consider myself lucky to have been at school in the 1940s when dip pens were used exclusively, so good habits were formed then.

I have a very light touch, so I avoid ball point pens like the plague - they require far too much pressure to ever be much good for attractive handwriting IMO. Fibre tips are OK but they are a bit mechanical and unresponsive.

caliken

Thanks for your response, caliken. How interesting! No wonder those years before our time are called the "good ol' days".

Fountain pens were a must in elementary school so I too learned the light touch. Only I would have a hard time when writing checks that had a carbon copy. Or say hand-addressing a Fedex Airbill and needing to have the writing go through several layers of sheets and show up clearly on the last one which is what actually stays on the package. How do you get around that, caliken?

I imagine once I go back to using fountain pens, I'll probably have a hard time returning to ball point pens. (Initially, I'd get a cramp from having to press down so hard when using a ballpoint. Even to this day, my ballpoint writing has very faint spots here and there, an apparent struggle between using a light touch and applying enough pressure for the writing to show. )

Fortunately, we don't have "Fedex Airbills" in the UK.
If we did, I suppose I'd be forced to use a ball point pen.........but only in disguise, at the dead of night, when nobody was watching!!

caliken

Too funny, caliken!

My handwriting is almost completely illegible to everybody except myself. Heck, who am I kidding...sometimes I can't even read it.

I would work on improving it, but I've always heard that it's more or less impossible to change your handwriting in any substantive way once you've reached adulthood.

99.9998% is typed - signatures are only required and my signature shows that out of chaos there is some order or more likely that out of order there is chaos

Looking at some of the letters they seem to be very similar to the Zaner-Blosser my daughter is learning right now. Especially the 'f'.

Kurt

My handwriting for all of my professional life has been pretty bad. I can usually read it, but sometimes others can't. Part of this no doubt came from the attitude that pretty writing taught in grammar school didn't matter. It was likely exacerbated by the need in school to furiously take notes to get ideas down. My "cursive" handwriting devolved into a combination of cursive and printing that was no doubt my unconscious optimization to get things down quickly.

Now, sitting on this large pile of chronological scat, I feel a bit differently about things. One, your handwriting does communicate something about you. For example, if we see sloppy handwriting, we might think the person doing the writing is a slob. I'm not saying this is objective; it's just an observation about people in general. Second, I've become more interested in having my descendants read the things I've written.

Both of these feelings have caused me to start taking more care in my handwriting (and to use good paper, inks, and FPs to write). I also recognize how much I wish my parents and grandparents had left writings behind -- we have virtually nothing of them, mostly photos (nice, but nowhere near the whole story, especially as us descendants don't know who many of the people are in the photos). In the last few years, I've set a personal goal of writing down family history, memories, thoughts, daily diaries, etc., so that my descendants might learn something about me and my parents and siblings they otherwise wouldn't know.

Here's one validation of this idea. I have a small composition notebook labeled "Travel" that I started about 20 years ago. It was intended for handwritten notes when we went camping. I left it on the counter one day and my daughter grabbed it. Later she told me it was fascinating reading -- she got to read about events that she remembered when she was younger and see them through my eyes. She loved it. My wife and I went back and read the whole set of notes -- they allowed us to relive some of these events in ways pictures would never have. Truly worth the effort!

"when I have Time" is the key. I can almost tell what time of the day I filled out intake forms, progress notes, etc.

In the morning it's nice-- mind my p's & q's-- by the end of the day it's starting to look like hen scratch.

But I will not use a computer for someones health care information. A handwritten chart is hacker proof!

--Bruce

I voted for "somewhat important." My handwriting is legible and reasonably attractive--I wouldn't call it beautiful, but it does occasionally edge into pretty. If I'm just writing a grocery list, I use something halfway between print and joined letters; I'm the only one seeing it, so I don't mind if it's missing the niceties that I put in fancier writing (I do still make sure it's legible). Handwritten notes and letters are more likely to get pretty treatment; I spend more time on them, and I try to make sure that my flourishes don't get in the way of legibility.

Writing is, above all, a form of communication. I treat my handwriting much as I treat my accent: it must be understandable, and I prefer that it be pretty. I keep my handwriting from being sloppy because sloppiness gives an unfavorable impression, and because I don't want to read something sloppy. Writing with a good pen makes me more aware of how I'm writing, so the final appearance is nicer.