I've been trying some different vintage pens and having used aero "51"s where I'm fine putting about anything into the pli glass sac, I've acquired a couple resin pens with either clear portions (striped duofold) or visulated sections.

Are there any pens in which you would not use Private Reserve or Noodlers (or similarly highly saturated) inks?

I've found myself gravitating a bit back toward Quink and Waterman with a couple of my vintage pens but don't know if I'm just being paranoid.

I do know that if I pull the trigger on a Parker 61 capillary filler I will not be loading that up with anything other than Quink, Skrip or Waterman as I don't want to spend a week trying to get all the American Blue out of the thing!

I have been using PR Supershow in a "51" Aero, but the sac was already stained.

I tend not to use the highly saturated inks on the lighter colour "51"s or any of the Vacs. I use anything a everything in a Sonnet as you can take them apart easily for a good clean in the US cleaner.

I know thar Rick Propas is dead against anything other than the traditional inks in the vintage pens he sells.

Just my .02 worth,

Jim

Avoid red or red-toned inks, even from the known old brands. Red dyes just happen to be nasty.

My OMAS Extra (with previously clear white barrel) was permanently stained pink by Private Reserve Plum. I tried everything, and I decreased the darkness of the stain, but it's permanent. Fortunately, since the pen's cap and piston knob are burgundy, the pink staining doesn't "clash" with the rest of the pen...

I avoid putting any red inks (or inks with red in them, like purples, violets, etc) in any piston-fillers like my piston-filling Pelikans, as I know the red dye can cause the piston seals to swell.....

For vintage pens, are the only inks to avoid are Noodlers and Private reserve? Are there others I should be careful using in a vintage pen?

Just stick to the main brands and you should be fine. Basically any ink made by a pen manufacturer should be OK, but dark colours and reds are going to stain. Diamine inks are also OK but avoid Registrars ink as that is Iron Gall and is used for permanent records. Registrars tend to have a pen for that ink alone and have to keep it cleaned out.

Jim

I feel I should point out that many people do use Noodler's in vintage pens. A very delicate pen with fragile innards, I can see being a bit paranoid, but I'm not sure the paranoia is based on fact. A good durable pen like a "51," I personally would not worry about (and I don't, in fact if my "51" runs out of Levenger Cobalt any time in this century, which seems unlikely, it's going to get a delicious load of Legal Lapis). There's no transparent bit in a "51" to stain, though.

If it makes you at all uncomfortable, of course don't do it. Pens are about enjoyment, after all.

And as many have pointed out, red is red, however venerable.

Rick Propas seems like a very very knowledgable person and I bow to his understanding which surpasses mine as the Sahara beats out a sand box, but others who are also very knowledgeable have questioned his aversion to Noodler's.

I have 2 Esterbrook desk pens, my husband has one, and I just purchased a 1939 Sheaffer Balance. The desk pens are filled with Noodlers Legal Lapis and the Sheaffer is inked with Noodlers Iraqi Indigo. They are all performing well. I hope I'm not going to be sorry ????

Judybug

My experience is only that it takes longer to rinse out a pen that had Noodler's or Private Reserve in it. I can't say what long term use will bring, but Nathan Tardif claims that his Noodler's formula is based off the more saturated inks of yesteryear (vintage Sheaffer and Parker formulas) and is completely safe. Without proof of long term effects all anyone can say is "Use at your own risk!" Maybe Rick Propas doesn't want the extra labor involved in cleaning out Noodler's or Private Reserve ink.

A question: does Visconti Sepia have red dye in it? I'm planning on using that ink in my Mabie Todd Blackbird.

Maybe a silly question, but I'm not very into the technical and chemical aspects of ink.

I tend to avoid highly saturated inks in older pens because, in my experience at least, they tend to clog and prevent fast starting. It may be because vintage feeds have narrower channels or the designs simply aren't as advanced as on moderns. I don't know this for a fact, but I assume it's a feed issue. I should say I have a large number of pens inked at any one time and some get left untouched for anything up to about two weeks. So if you were to use a saturated-ink vintage pen daily and lengthily, it may be no problem.

I also think that the character of vintage pens is such that more dilute and shading-producing inks are more appropriate for them. But YMMV.

Parker Penman too, if you still have any

Hi-I surveyed many people about this before deciding to go ahead and try Noodlers Swisher Mix ("permanent") inks in my lever-filler vintage pens with fine, flexible nibs. My experience was: they hated it-! My most reliable pens clogged and pooled and choked. They performed better with "regular" Noodlers but eventually started spitting it out and pooling. I have not used any variety of Noodlers in my vintage piston-filling Pelikan.
On the other hand, my modern pens-even a Pelikan with XF nib and 2 Crosses with very fine nibs-do just fine with even the "waterproof" Noodlers mixes. So now I use only less saturated inks in my older pens, because I really want to keep them happy. They do well with Watermans, Mont Blanc, Pelikan, and Diamine inks.

I keep PR Tanzanite in my little Moore Maniflex. I use Noodler's inks in just about every pen I own. 30's to 60's Sheaffers, 30's to 50's Waterman's, and all of my Esterbrooks and my few Parkers, without a hint of trouble.

I have 3 vintage pens filled with reds too; Widowmaker, Antietam, Shah's Rose, Swishmix Burgundy.

HyperCamper in Twente: Put a drop onto a damp coffee filter (the paper kind, of course) and see what happens.

Are Diamine's new colors as safe as the older ones? Pendemonium separates Diamine's inks that way if you aren't sure which colors fall into which category.

That is odd as I have the exact opposite experience. I have one pen that is somewhat finnicky, and I find it performs best with the Noodler's permanent inks. The more saturated inks give in an uneven flow. I don't know which I will figure out first, pens or women.

My two Parkers (a 51 and a Duofold) don't seem to perform as well with Private Reserve Blue Suede as they do with Waterman Florida Blue and Violet. They tended to be a bit dry and scratchy.

Paradoxically, the Blue Suede flooded out of my Myu 701! This pen works much more predictably with Aurora Black.

No pleasing some pens!

I just removed Noodler's Iraqi Indigo from my vintage Sheaffer Balance [XF point]. It seemed to flow OK when I first inked the pen, but after a few days the flow is not so good. I'm doing some old-fashioned bookkeeping today and have been frustrated with trying to get the ink to flow.

Just cleaned the pen and inked it with Sheaffer Skrip black and it's doing fine. What a difference! As much as I love Noodler's inks, I guess they aren't right for every pen. Noodler's does seem to do fine in my modern pens. But then - it just occurred to me - this Sheaffer Balance is the only XF I have. Maybe nib size is the determining factor rather than whether a pen is vintage or modern??? I don't know.

Judybug

The coffee filter test will show red in the brown ink. It will also likely show it in black ink as there is no such thing as "black" ink. Black typically is a blend of other colors to get whatever the manufacturer is looking for.

That said, browns are usually pretty safe. Reds and purples are just problem inks because they will stain things that otherwise won't stain. Pelikan had a big problem with the clear M250s that Levenger sold because they got sent back for repair after folks used the Levenger red or purple tone inks in them. Others didn't seem to stain. Many experienced repair folks note they can tell right away when they take a pen apart if red ink was used in it because of the residue left in the pen.

My experience with reds is that they can leave a nasty residue. Purples are a little less so but still something of an issue in some pens. I use red and purple inks but I'm careful about what pens I put them in because I just don't want to spend 30 minutes flushing the ink out of a pen before I get the water used to flush the pen running clear. The problems come when the ink is left in the pen but reds can cause problems even in well maintained pens in some instances.

I use Noodlers and PR inks. I also use 60 year old vintage inks all the time. But I know that some inks are a risk and I consider the pen they go in accordingly. Like all things YMMV.

Thanks for all the thoughts - some interesting stuff and insights.

One thing I've figured out is that certain inks like certain pens, and some inks and pens are more finicky than others.

I'm also getting a little more rigorous about flushing my pens more frequently. Part of that is although I have only 10 pens there is enough redundancy that I don't mind taking a pen out of the rotation for a few days to allow for some soaking and drying time.

I love burgundy inks and I use them. However, I flush and thoroughly clean any pen that has held a red or burgundy ink with every filling. I often refill pens that hold blue inks without flushing.

I use both Private Reserve and Noodlers inks in vintage pens with no problems. IMHO Noodlers ink is easier to flush frm pens than Pelikan inks.

I have a few pens in which I only use vintage Sheaffer Skrip permanent blue black. It isn't because I think any other ink would harm the pens. That is just my choice to have in the desk pen that is always inked on my desk and in the Parker Lady Duofold that was my Gran's. The smell of that ink takes me back to my childhood. My grandparents used only that ink and my Da brought it home in big, economy-sized bottles.

What about Herbin inks?

I use Herbin's pinks and violet in my pens, they are modern.

I also use Noodler Saguaro Wine in my Sheaffer school pen.

Because the inks match the pens perfectly I don't see much trace of staining.