So, I understand we can't take off the band of a Sheaffer autograph to tap the dents out. How about a dent puller? Sort of like a very small plummer's helper?

Seeems a shame. An Autograph with no signature can't be all that common....

Steve

IF you can get to the inside.... the dent can be worked out. There are several method that should work, expanding mandrel, wheel type roller and anvil and 'slapper' come to mind. In automotive and aircraft work special tools are sometimes built for a particular area or dent type.

Ron

Just keep denting till you achieve that wonderful "hammered gold" look.

What would happen if you put a small piece of dry ice, or a drop of liquid nitrogen, in that dimple? Might it not "pop" back into place when the metal in the dimple contracts?

Actually he is asking a Serious problem Question?????? Anyone can give a good answer to that cos I have the Serious Problems too. Tks in advance

Hi,

I happen to have this problem.

I will be asking around to see if someone I know can fix it.

Dillon

So now we have three problems child to a slave of a ding pen?????????

My answer is serious one.

Ron

Well, I guess I was only half serious. I wanted to vent a little too.... I'd actually thought about Andy's idea since the Parker "51" does have a hammered silver cap, but this would screw up the threads....

I'm enclosing a picture of a cap for a Sheaffer '49 Touchdown that arrived from eBay in the flimsiest little bubblepack and a great big boot print on the envelope. I have not bought anything from that seller since....

You can see from the pic that the gold ring is laid around a steel sleave that fits inside the plasctic outer cap. In the Snorkel, that steel sleave forms the whole inner cap. So I don't think you can get at the gold ring....

Thanks guys,

Steve

Steve,
Have you contacted Daniel Kirchheimer about this... he is the master of that kind of restoration....
I don't know what he charges, but it might be worth a shot...

That's why I was asking about the dry ice or liquid nitrogen. Seems to me I've heard of auto body dent fixers (who have the same kind of problem) using those methods. But nobody has responded to the question, so it's either an idea that's foolish beyond belief, or nobody knows.

Good evening Bill,
Thel iquid Nitrogen or solid CO2 idea might well work on a larger area where the metal is thinner in relation to the area, in the case in point there might not be enough give in the metal to straighten out over the small area. Another problem might be the steel backing, the coefficients of expansion of steel, brass and gold are very different from each other and a situation could well occur where this will make things difficult.

If we had a NASA materials scientist or someone in a similar line where they work with extreme temperatures and how materials behave in them it would be most useful.

In extremis and as a solution of last resort I was wondering if it might be possible to part the inner cap with an internal parting tool on a lathe perhaps 6mm/1/4in above the ring but below the start of the thread,(much as the broken one is shown but obviously much more carefully) do what work on the gold fill band you need and then Araldite/gel CA the part back into place.

Provided that the repair doesn't impinge on the thread the repaired area wouldn't come under any great load that might cause it to separate, it might be possible to back it with plastic metal if one has to gap fill behind the repair.
Having looked at some of the custom work on the Fora I know that there are several members who have excellent lathe skills and probably the precision tools to do the job if it is practicable.

Best of luck,
John

Hi Steve & All !
Removing the gold/gold filled ring is possible but requires special made tools.
I've done this replace a brassed gold filled ring & also for un-denting a gold ring &
managed to remove both rings succesfully, whitout damaging them.
I know, I've only done 2 so it's a rather limited experience I have.
As most if you will know, the plastic cap only extends to the seam with the gold ring, meaning there is no plastic underneath the ring.
The inner cap is glued inside the cap by means of heat-sensitive glue, which will soften by applying heat (70°C) to the gold ring - NOT to the plastic barrel!
Heat transfert from the gold(filled) ring to the inner cap will soften the glue & allow removal of the inner cap/ring assembly.
Ive made me a simple cap-puller using aluminum 10mm barstock, 200mm long ,on which I turned of on a diameter obtaining a snug-fit with a spare clutch ring from a snorkel. The snug fitted diameter was turned off extending 0.5 mm outside the mounted clutch ring. After knocking the clucth ring gently over the bar I rivetted the extending 0.5 mm over the edge of the clutch ring, obtaining both axial and radial fixation.
Heat-up the gold ring for approx. 3 minutes, grip the cap with rubber gripping mat, screw the cap filler in & pull the cap/ ring assembly out.
I forgot to mention that I've tapped a 5mm center taphole in the opposite end of the puller bar. Over the bar I mounted a brass "hammering" sleeve, having a bore of 10.20 mm , an external diameter of 25.00mm & a length of 100mm.
In the tapped hole I've mounted a bolt holding a 2mm thick , 20 mm diameter washer.
This washer is in fact the anvil on which I hammer with the brass hammering sleeve to remove the inner cap.
So far so good, we now have the inner cap/gold ring assembly in our hands.
As far as I've experienced ,the gold ring is slightly soldered on the inner cap, but only at the extreme outer edge, before the female threads start.
Being fully metal, this end can logically be heaten up at a higher temperature to loose the soldering, which I succesfully did on the gold filled ring.
I was somewhat reluctant to heat up the gold ring, so here is what I did to remove this one.
I've used 30mm Delrin (POM) barstock 60 mm long & drilled a central hole of 10.10 mm completely through. This diameter just fits for the external diameter of the inner cap.Srew the cap puller fully in the inner cap,slide the inner cap in the bore of the Delrin tool till the edge of the gold ring touches the front of the delrin tool block.
Now put the flat side of the tool block on a workbench & gently knock with a plastic hammer on the pulling tool (washer end bolt) to slide the gold ring of the inner cap.
Since the soldering was very light the gold ring came off right away on the one I've tested. Note that when not succesfull one can always heat up the ring/ inner cap end to loosen the soldering.

As for the removal of the dents, I've made me a Delrin ring 15 mm thick, 30mm diameter with a central diameter 11.5mm bore, thightly fitting for the gold ring. Secondly I've a made me a Delrin pin 70 mm long, diameter 11.00 mm, thightly fitting in the inner diameter of the ring & having a 30° entry angle 0.7 mm far.
Mount the gold ring the the Delrin ring tool on your workbench ( I've put a 5m thick leather sheet underneath) introduce the nylon pin (on the sharp side of the ring) & slightly hammer the pin (straightly !) in using plastic hammer .
Doing so I was able to remove 90% of the dents, not completely but one could hardly see it, the results were at least remarkabe.
Steve,I can also make some sketches & send them to you if you want.

Wishing you succes,
Regards, Francis

PS : Note I did not solder the gold ring back in place,instead I glued it with superglue. Since the gold ring is radially only partly supported on the threaded part of the blind cap, the weak ring remains very sensible for denting.
Aiming to reduce this risk I've filled the chamber between the blind cap & the ring with shellac , giving it a full radial back-up support. Complementary benefit is that the ring is now secured over its full length. There are surely two components
filler products which are better suited to do this, however I did not have these available at that time.

Francis,

You are a marvel!

I must wait until my skills improve considerably to attempt this procedure, and I sold this pen this morning as is, but I will certainly keep your message for future reference. Remarkable!

And thanks to all above for stimulating conversation on this topic.... You are a very interesting and inventive group!

Steve

Following up on what Francis described, here's a picture of a fitting that performs the same function as the working part of the puller he described:



The fitting works in conjunction with the same sort of hammering apparatus Francis described; it's formed from 7068 high-strength aluminum, and I cut the triple-lead threads to engage the cap threads.

--Daniel

Daniel, you are quickly becoming a machining hero! I really enjoy seeing the little tools that you come up with in your mad scientist lab

I will have one to share with you on Monday (hopefully) that is based on one of your tools, and expanded on. Little teaser for you.

Keep bringing the hits with these cool tools.

SG

Well, ok, I don't work for NASA (at least yet) but I am a materials scientist. My coworker spent last summer at Glenn.

Seriously, though, the degree probably doesn't help much at all. I learned to seriously respect the machinist's touch when working on a crazy project to make an inductively coupled plasma attachment to a growth chamber I work with. The man is a genius when it comes to working with materials. Very intriguing to learn about how things work from a machinist. [You should see some of the miniature microscope manipulation stages he's built! Amazing!]

When I first saw this, the thing that came to mind with the extreme temperatures, is the size of the part and the type of metal... well, almost any time of metal has very good thermal conduction. So, you drop something cold like dry-ice, or LN2 on it, and yes, it will shrink (a very tiny bit) and will also get very cold very quickly... but, likely, all the metal attached to it will do the same very quickly as well. So, there isn't enough of a temperature difference to cause a small section of it to shrink in comparison to the whole. And, we can see that by how fountainbel takes the part off- he's smart- he heats the metal, as it will distribute the heat evenly, won't melt, and will go straight to the glue-joint.

But, I'm not an expert on any of this! If there's one thing I've learned it's that materials work can be extremely tricky... when it comes down to actually hands-on work with materials- often it's an art form! [Just try to make perfectly parallel sides to a plate of metal! almost impossible.]

Cheers, guys!!
-Allen

[who's more of a plastics/semiconductor type of guy anyways. ]

Francis asked me to post pics of his dent repair process described above. I have combined them into a collage for easier upload....

Steve