The forum denizens are highly forgiving of all kinds of handwriting, in whatever language.

This is how I write. I don't know how to call this style; it has developed from the Chancery Cursive I normally use for calligraphy. As you can see, not all the letters in the same word are joined. As to legibility, I'll let you be the judge.

I find a combination of a very wet, fine italic nib and Moleskine paper is the best, and I use the latter for all sorts of writing.

Regards,
Born

Born,

Your writing is quite legible and very fluid. What is equally impressive is what you have achieved on Moleskine paper with a wet nib, lovely shading with very clean edges. Excellent work!

Margana

Very nice Born! You have an excellent italic hand.

Lovely visual rhythm to it, it really flows nicely.

I love that Monaco Red as well.

Hans-Peter, please do; it would be great to see them.

dear Born ...
Beautiful handwriting .... I like it ...
Rgds

A bi tof a late reply on my behalf....

But I agree with TMLee, I love your handwriting sample Born. Very beautiful.

- Mark

I hope that PaoliMD will post some of his/her (doubtless quite nice) medical handwriting.

Just out of curiosity, PaoliMD, how many letters per minute can you legibly write with the Peterson Method?

With all due respect, I have Peterson on my mind today because I've received a couple of e-mails from Peterson "washouts" seeking help.

Tara, I'd call the nib you used for that middle sample a "rounded" or "ball" nib, not a "stub."
To make a stub nib, SLIGHTLY round off just the corners and upper/lower edges of an Italic nib.

Dear "kissing,"
I'd love to see your hybrid handwriting, in as many varieties of it as you can muster.

;-)

Dear "Born T,"
I'd call your writing a marvelously fluent Italic with some features suggesting conventional cursive. It looks similar to handwritings that existed around the time that Italic started changing into later styles (the ones we conventionally call "cursive.")

Hi Kate,

Here is an example of my handwriting. I'd appreciate any feedback/assurances that you could help my hand....



thanks,
French

I can definitely help this handwriting!

Let's start with the first letter you wrote here — "D." To write a neater "D" (by increasing the speed at which you can write "D" legibly), rather than do it in two strokes top-to-bottom you should begin by writing an "L" and then keep your pen on the paper while swinging up-and-back to (or even somewhat left of) the starting-point of the letter. For greatest accuracy and best appearance as you write a "D" in this fashion, please pause very briefly at the corner of the "L" part (the point where the downstroke changes direction and starts going rightward.

To improve the next letter you wrote — "a" — note that this letter contains (or should contain) two downstrokes.
The first downstroke
(the left "edge" of the letter —
the part you make immediately after forming the top of the "a")
and the second downstroke
(the stem of the letter "a" —
the last stroke you make before joining upward into another letter such as "n")
should run parallel to each other:
at present, in your "a"s, they don't run parallel but slant in differing directions —
your "a's" first downstroke slants like this: /
but its second downstroke slants like this: \
You need to make both downstrokes slant the same way: pick one slant and stick with it. (the same also applies to other "a"-like letters: "d/q/g" —
once the first and second downstrokes in "a/d/g/q" consistently slant the same way,
we can see about getting the other downstrokes to fit that slant too.)

Just as the left and right "edges" of an "a" (or similar letter) need to share the same slant, so too do the left and right edges of an "n" (or an "m" or an "h").
In your "n" in "Dani" (and in almost all other occurrences of "n/m/h" in this sample, the right edge of the letter slants leftward (like this \ ) although the remainder of the letter (the other downstroke[s]) slant[s] rightward (like this / ). Again, you'd need to pick one over-all slant and stick with it.
Your "n" also often suffers from having its right downstroke shorter than its left downstroke — as you hurry to get to the next letter, you forget to make sure you have finished the letter in progress. For a letter that should end at the base-line ("n" and most other alphabet-letters), ALWAYS make sure that you have actually finished the letter (that you have actually gotten your pen to the base-line at the end of the letter) before you start the next letter.

Because I don't know whether your goals in handwriting include changing your writing-style (e.g. to Italic or some other style you fancy) or just "neatening up" and otherwise improving your existing style, I can't comment on every alphabet-letter until I know your stylistic goal[s].
(For instance, the starting-point of many lower-case alphabet-letters depends on whether the writer does or doesn't "believe" in joining every lower-case letter to its neighbors.)
Therefore, I'll have to "skip" covering many lower-case letters that I would address in a full lesson given (say) to a paying student — so I'll end my comments with some on the letter "d" and then some on the capitals (because I can see you prefer a print-like style for capitals).

Lower-case "d" —
More often than not in this sample, you've made your letter "d" as a mirror-reflection of a printed letter "b" — starting at the top of the stem, going down, and only then adding the oval portion. This method of making "d" disrupts the rhythm of the writing (and somewhat slows it down) by unnecessarily proceeding right-to-left (stem on the right side, then oval on the left side). Whatever your chosen writing style, that style's appearance will benefit greatly if you learn to always make your "d" in a consistently left-to-right fashion (write the oval first, THEN move into the stem — just as one does when writing "a" or "g" or "q"). If you do not do this, then the more that you improve other letters in your writing, the more that right-to-left/stem-to-oval contrary "d" will stick out amidst the other letters like a sore toe.

Hints for some of the capitals —

"A" and "H" — To get the most (in speed, ease, and generally in appearance) out of your print-like "A" and "H," instead of sequencing their strokes left-right-middle I recommend using this sequence: left-middle-right. One most easily learns that by addressing first the "H."
/1/ Write the left side of the "H" just as you do now, then ...
/2/ when you finish the left side of the "H," INSTEAD of picking up the pen and moving over to write the right side of the "H," write the MIDDLE of the "H" (as a horizontal going left-to-right) and THEN write the right side of the "H" (starting at the top, just as you start the left side of the "H.")
Write about 20 such "H"s, to get used to them (then try some "H"s the old way, to see if you feel any difference) ...
... then apply the same to the letter "A." (Start with the left side of the "A," made top-to-bottom and slanting as usual, then make the middle stroke going left-to-right, then finish by writing the right side of the "A," made top-to-bottom and slanting as usual).

"F" — One can speed up this rather difficult letter without impeding its form (and therefore have more time for other letters) if one does NOT start with the downstroke but instead starts with the horizontal top. Make the top of "F" left-to-right, THEN add the downstroke and the remaining horizontal (also made left-to-right). If you speed this up, it will remain legible ... although at the very highest speeds it may start to turn from a print-like "F" to a more "cursive" version: so now you know where the "cursive" F came from!

"I" and J — let's start with "I" — If you want what you have here (an unadorned single stroke for "I"), I won't mess with that. However, you may like to know a rapid means of forming a simple, print-like "I" that doesn't look like a lower-case "l" or a figure "1." Most people who want a more distinguishable "I" do it in a rather cumbersome way (they write the downstroke, then "glue on" horizontals afterward to the top and bottom) — instead of achieving the result in that way, I recommend that you start with the top horizontal (a very short left-to-right movement), THEN write the downstroke, then of course finish with the bottom horizontal (again, a very short left-to-right movement).
The same sort of thing applies to "J": start with the top horizontal (same as I've described for "I"), and THEN do the downstroke (and curve it a bit at the end: "J's" curve often looks best if you allow it to dip below the line, as in a lower-case "j" or a "cursive" upper-case "J" ... or in the printed "J"s of many type-fonts)
This method of writing "I" and "J" may sound novel, but actually goes back quite a way in Italic ... over-ornamenting/curving the tops and bottoms of "I"s and "J"s written in this sequence gave rise (over a couple of centuries of more and more ornament) to today's conventional cursive "I" and "J."

I hope the above serves you well enough to interest you in more — if so, contact me by e-mail (handwritingrepair@gmail.com) or by phone (518/482-6763) to discuss "where to go from here."

I use either medium or fine nibs. I have never used italic, stub or calligraphy nibs. Just classic nibs, I chose them semi flex so they combine the perfect amount flexibility and stability for writing.

I most often use a non-italic nib with school cursive. I have a couple of italic fountain pens, but it is so much trouble to hold them up on the step long enough to write a sentence, I usually just give it up.

I have many hundreds of dip pen nibs and am gradually trying out each type to see which one I like best. Some have too much flex and become aggravating. My current favorite is Esterbrook's #905 Radio Pen. That one is just the oyster's ice skates!

Paddler

Bill Dodson, I'd love to see your version of joined Italic handwriting!

I use fine or medium nibs. They range from flex to modern manifold. I avoid wet noodles though since I'm left handed.

My writing is a mixture of things I've picked up over time. Most of it is cursive, but it's a little of everything. There is some mild line variation through the flex nib.

Mine is a mumbo-jumbo of different styles that I've adopted during all these years.

^Wow, I don't know what to say but I have a feeling graphologists will have a field day with that.

As what I do is mathematics, stub/italic/caligraphy nibs just aren't appropriate (I use either F or EF standard nibs). Of course mathematics is more written English than symbols, but I do need to be able to write small and accurate symbology as I work.

My handwriting is the typical loopy cursive. It can border on the illegible, as I often don't close my "o" and "a" (so that they resemble "u"). As I write quickly, dotting of "i" and accurate crossing of "t" also can go by the wayside. I've always wanted to improve my handwirting, but don't want to go to an italic style (I have an irrational attachment to cursive). I also need to be able to write quickly as I frequently take notes during presentations/seminars/classes/etc, so I'm probably doomed to semi-legibility with my writing.


Dave

Okay, I won't ask Dave to "convert to Italic" with regard to pens or writing-style. However, just a couple of small "tricks" from Italic handwriting technique — integrated with an existing cursive — can vastly improve the legibility of most cursive handwriters. To present the two tricks that should best help Dave (without requiring him to abandon cursive letter-shapes which he enjoys), I'll list these tricks in conjunction with the handwriting-slips that each trick best addresses:


[Dave:]
My handwriting ... can border on the illegible, as I often don't close my "o" and "a" (so that they resemble "u").

Kate's suggestion:
To improve the odds (and the ease) of closing any given "o" or "a" or similar rounded-start letter (such as "d/g/q"), very briefly and rapidly lift the pen as you journey towards the beginning of that letter from some preceding letter or space. (For instance, in a word like "pot" or "pat" you'd momentarily, quickly, lift the pen somewhere between the finish of the "p's" curve and the start of the "o's" or "a's" curve.)


[Dave:]
As I write quickly, dotting of "i" and accurate crossing of "t" also can go by the wayside.

Kate's suggestion:
To prevent dots/crosses from "going by the wayside" (either in terms of misplacement — dotting/crossing the wrong letter as one hurries — or in terms of simple omission), VERY briefly and rapidly lift your pen just when you finish each "t/i/j/x" (the dotted/crossed letters) — at that moment (not later), write the dot or the cross-bar: then (and only then) go on to the next letter. (Often, you'll find that the cross-bar made in this way will serve as a rapid join to the next letter. This most often happens with "t": for some people it may also happen with "i/j"-dots.) Crossing/dotting "on the go" in this fashion /a/ ensures that you actually make the dot or the cross in its proper place, and — even more important — /b/ increases writing-speed because you no longer need to detour back to the beginning of a word that contains "t/i/j/x" as soon as you have written the word's last letter. (You can see this for yourself if you try the two ways of handling "t/i/j/x" — crossing/dotting on the go, vs. waiting till word's end and then going back to do it — in such words as "tomatoes/immune/jellybean/xylophone.")
Remember that, even in 100% conventional cursive, for clarity's sake we lift the pen here and there within certain letters such as capital"K" and "X" — in many styles, also "F" and "H" and "T" — rather than waiting until the end of the word to come back and add in the missing parts. (Waiting till the end of "Handwriting" to finish the capital "H" would unbelievably delay matters.) The "t/i/j/x" trick simply extends this same principle (that on occasion a pen-lift can help clarify and even speed) to a couple of lower-case letters in addition to various capitals where one already employs that principle.

So, Dave, work with the above and see if this eases your semi-legible "doom." I believe it will!

Kate:

Thank you for the tips - I've printed your reply and will really try to work on this. I'll confess that I have grown a bit concerned about my handwriting, as I often cannot even read what I've written (I have to discern words from context). The string of examples is almost unending: undotted "i" and "e" are indistinguishable, "d" and "cl" don't differ, unclosed "o" and "u" or "v" or unclosed "a" can't be differentiated, virtually identical "g" and "y," etc. I do A LOT of writing everyday (many pages of handwritten notes and jotting and "thinking on paper") so speed is very important, but if even I can't read what I've written then there's probably not much point in writing it down in the first place. What I'm trying to say is that I am very grateful that you took the time to add what seem like very useful suggestions, and you can be sure that I will try to incorporate them into my writing. Again, thank you for being so generous with your time.


Dave

Hi, Kate...
I am a "none of above"

I use a variety of "regular" nibbed pens and the Italic print forms in the Write Right book. For what I do and where I do it (recruiting and at home) it works perfectly fine. It also works good for everything else. While I do have some italic nibbed pens, I find that they are too big and "edgy"...use them sometimes but not often...

And for this I thank you--we had a phone chat some 7 years ago I have not forgotten and try to work within those precepts even now.

Outcome...???

Last fall, while we were on the annual "Peg and Marilyn go to Diamonds International" cruise, I was in the Horizon Buffet (We prefer Princess, thank you) working on a chapter in TALON'S TOUCH. A gentleman asked if he could sit down (it was crowded); I said he could...no problem and went back to my work. He noted the FP I was using (a Carene F) and we got into a discussion on FPs; he then commented on the legibility of my writing... Believe me NOBODY had made that comment EVER.

So, again, thanks...

Bill

Mike - for some reason, your sample didn't display within my browser. Could you please e-mail the same scan to handwritingrepair@gmail.com ?

Kate

Will do.
Actually its a digital photograph.

Mike

"I use a non-Italic nib & a hybrid of printing/"school" cursive"

I voted for this one because my "school" cursive isn't what they taught me in school, but rather is adapted. I learned it while in school, but it's a kind of writing most people aren't familiar with so it doesn't count as true "school" cursive. It's a combination of some printed / block letters, and some cursive, created for a left-hander's use to include fewer connectors that rise up to the top of letters which have strokes that begin with a round bowl. This accomplishes never requiring the lefty to "push" against the direction of the pen angle, thus allowing "decent" cursive for lefties. Which I am. If you haven't already guessed.

I guess I am a boring old Palmer schoolboy (Didn't realize there was a name for the way I wrote, besides 'atrocious'

I am trying to improve my handwriting, but haven't really dedicated the time to it. I have a 'cheap' Scheaffer Calligraphy pen (like $9) but am not sure if that is the best way. Anyway, perhaps I will have a nib customized. I don't really want "formal" calligraphy...want quick, legible writing for lecture notes; although, the need for lecture notes is quickly disappearing (should finish my course work and be into full research mode in about a year)...

Anyway, I will keep at it and if I have anything worth looking at, I will post it.

Tony

My wife, who I am trying mightily to get hooked on the pens (anniversary gift-- touchdown Sheaffer Valiant TM and a bottle of J. Herbin Violet Pensee), does a lot of writing with cheap modern Sheaffer calligraphy pens. She maintains that the width of line hides minor tremor-flaws in her cursive that a thin point would highlight. She has always attended to her (Palmeresque) hand-writing, and the results are very pleasing. I'm not sure her speed of production is what the lecture theatre demands, tho'.

I have one of the worst hand writing in the world. I start out kind of good, but then about a third into whatever it is I am writing I loss patience and start scribbling.

I have purchased some books on various different kinds of hand writing, I generally do well to begin with, then the ADAD takes hold and I am lost.

I will, however, not give up.

I assume that I am not alone with this "problem".

Harv.

"An abstract quality" - that's one way to put it! I'll have to remember that...

Here's my sample contribution. I'm another lefty who has had to adapt. My writing changed a lot when I was in school, but in it's "final" state it was influenced by the pretty writing of a high school friend (it stopped changing so much after that). Still, it's quite different from hers..my interpretation, I guess? She was right-handed.

I don't dislike my writing, but there are parts of it that feel awkward, I can't quite pinpoint it. My mother loves my handwriting, she's always asking me to address envelopes for her. But I think that's because she hates her own writing, not because mine is especially great or even legible. In fact, people are always confusing my lower case "n"s and "u"s. Try as I might, they do look the same, I'll admit that.

Click to view attachment

Recently I have been writing with my Pelikano with a left handed nib, I learned traditional cursive in 3rd grade, I never got the hang of it and printed until freshman year (9th grade) when I started relearning traditional cursive, I mainly tried to develope nice printing sophomore and junior year. Mid junior year I started to write in cursive and have been writing in/improving my cursive since then. I have learned some Italic this summer and now use a hybrid of traditional "American" cursive, French cursive, and Italic with letters from other sourses mixed in.

It would be great too see the handwritings that people use -- especially in the hybrid/italic groups. What if you came up with a short set of words for people to copy, Kate?

I was looking back through my journal tonight and noticed that six other people have been writing in it. They are all my thoughts but I swear that there are 6-7 different handwritings in there!!! I change pens and nibs and inks often and only write a page or two with a pen before I move on to another pen/nib/ink. It is ridiculous how much my handwriting changes from page to page. I know using the different nib sizes and inks contributes but other factors like - how big of a hurry am I in, what time of day I am writing, how tired I am, if I am concentrating on writing neatly, etc. -seem to affect the handwriting greatly. You really wouldn't believe it was the same person if you picked up this journal! The only consistent thing is my inconsistency!!!

When filling-out forms, making journal entries, or jotting-down notes:

• Careful printing (as exacting as possible)

However, when "writing" writing:

• "School" cursive script

-Clive

May I please draw on the evident depth of knowledge of this thread to help my own handwriting? I really havent consciously followed any particular style, but I have found that an oblique nib (left-foot) has helped me write a little more legibly. Im trying to improve my style to enable me to take fast and legible notes (to be read by others) so shorthand isnt really an option. All suggestions gratefully received! This is my sample (doctor...!) which is done at a speed half-way between 'nice-n-neat' and 'get-it-down-quick' so probably a good average. Oh, and using a Pelikan M1000 with medium oblique nib and Sailor Jentle Black.

Regards

David

If I want other people to be able to read it I print (or write very carefully) if it's just for me I use proper joined up writing.

Andy

I pick up a pen and write..I don't have much truck being forced into a particular style. I feel it stunts my individuality

non-italic styled print. But hope to someday buy a fountain pen with an italic nib to try italic writing.

If anybody has a few and would like to donate one to me please pm me. I promise that I would use it on a fairly steady basis.

Okay, colour me STUPID!, but I have been reading here and I am very new to fountain pen world and all the different nib selections. What is the difference in italic (I pretty much understand what those are used for, how they write, etc.) and a stub??? I like calligraphy and have done a bit of italic calligraphy, but I want to do more cursive style towards spencerian, copperplate. Just what does a stub nib do???

Though I can write a perfect French cursive if I want to, and my capitals/block is quite fine, my "normal writing" is not pretty and varies a lot. It is at its worse when I use a ballpoint or a rollerball. If I write fast, it can be illegible. With a fountain pen, the necessity to hold it at a certain angle makes my writing a lot better. My husband still thinks I write chicken scratches, but he has trouble reading anybody's handwriting but his own. In short, my everyday handwriting is irregular at best, but there is a story behind it.

When I was in primary school, in first grade, I learned to write cursive directly. We never learned block. So when I changed schools in the middle of the second year, I started in a class who were following a different programme and were just starting to learn to write, entirely in block. Since I already knew how to write, and to write cursive to boot, I did not see the point in learning "kid's writing" (I was 6, smart and stubborn as an ass). To make a long story short, after several sheets of letters where I got a zero for writing cursive instead of block, I had to unlearn to write cursive, in order to write block. When we went back to cursive, it was no longer natural for me. I can still write a perfect French cursive, but I have to think to do it. If I just write, notes for instance, it comes out like a bastardised hybrid of cursive, block and just plain crooked.

Hi Leanna,

I'm a fountain pen newbie myself, but from what I understand a stub (I've also seen "stub italic") is a little like an italic nib but with a lot more rounded edges and corners, and less of a width/height ratio in the lines it write (more like 2:1 or even 1.5:1, unlike an italic ratio of more like 3:1 or 4:1), so it writes very quickly and smoothly but gives less variation between the thin and thick strokes you can get from an italic. Good for lots of general faster constant writing rather than slower prettier writing, and good for when you are tired and can't get that finicky italic nib to write properly. So a stub is a good alternative to a standard round nib, with a little more expressiveness to the lines.

There is also the difference between a crisp italic - like writing with the edge of a very tiny knife and can cut right through paper in the hands of the inexperienced, but it gives very clear edges and good thick/thin variation - and a cursive italic, which has slightly rounded corners and edges but not as far as a stub italic, and is easier for the less experienced, or for somewhat faster and more constant writing.

For copperplate/Spencerian, you might be more interested in flex nibs, although I believe learning to use them properly requires some commitment.

Credit for the correct information in this post goes to the wonderful members of this forum and the fantastic and informative website of nibmeister Richard Binder - here's a good page to read for this particular topic: http://www.richardspens.com/ref_info/nib_beyond.htm which has useful information and writing examples from stub, crisp italic, cursive italic and flex nibs.
See also http://www.richardspens.com/ref_info/nib_primer.htm and http://www.richardspens.com/ref_info/nib_flex_italic.htm

Any misleading information in this post comes from my incorrect understanding.

Regards, Myles.

Thank you so much, Myles. This info and clarification was very helpful to me. Thank you again!

Here is a sample from my horrid notetaking on an A5 notepad (light paper but does not bleed). I am determined to try and improve my handwriting, though at this point speed is much more important than quality, as long it stays legible. This is a mixed style (I wouldn't even dare to call it handwriting) typical of when I write latin characters, when writing in greek I tend to print each letter more. Blue ink is PR Supershow Blue with a Parker 25 Fine, Red ink is Diamine (don't remember which) with a Pelikan M100 X-Fine.

Generally, I tend to lean towards italic cursive, regardless of the pen used. However, the italic and/or could vanish depending on my mood.

I shall now attach a writing sample. This was written fast [my usual speed], but without any regard to rhythm, uniformity or consistency. A Rotring Clipper pen containing a Parker Jotter gel refill was used.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexanderino/311846934/" title="Script"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/101/311846934_25323d3e4e.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="Script" /></a>

alexanderino :
Your writing looks good to me - even, clear, consistent and perfectly legible. Thanks for posting.
caliken

I know that this is a very late reply, but I've only just found this post.

This was written at speed with a lot of consistency - especially with the slope of the writing which is very even.

Also, you are able to write straight without guidelines, which is, by no means, easy.
This very distinctive writing looks like it could have been written a couple of centuries ago! This is possibly helped by the great choice of colour!

caliken

Thank you, caliken! Coming from you, that is high praise In fact, you’ve encouraged me to photograph and post a few more samples, this time written with a Sheaffer calligraphy fountain pen. Fine nib and a weird ink mix were combined with neurosis and insomnia to produce these trippy lines:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexanderino/1849063764/" title="Script 2"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2041/1849063764_e85398dbd4.jpg" width="500" height="258" alt="Script 2" /></a>

Dipping into the fascinating world of broad italic nibs:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexanderino/1849202244/" title="Script 3"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2044/1849202244_d64a8e2c51.jpg" width="500" height="459" alt="Script 3" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexanderino/1848380123/" title="Script 4"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/1848380123_16c92c172a.jpg" width="500" height="349" alt="Script 4" /></a>

Note the spelling mistake above

Stunning and very elegant! I will strive to acheive your level of uniformity. Inspiring, indeed!