Dear FPN Users,
There has been a small, yet relevant, revelation that fell upon me recently as to why I use my fountain pens. I just enjoy them when I have the chance. It's not that I write page after page with them. It's not that I relish in how long I can hold them comfortably. Let's face it, in today's modern world, we use computers for so much of our written correspondence. And, while vintage pens were made for a more utilitarian purpose, I find myself using my modern CS pen mostly for signatures and notes. For that purpose, the beautiful acrylic finish and nicely weighted barrel is just fine. Sure, I could be picky and say that the pen might be a bit heavy for long-term use or that the price of the pen makes me about as nervous as transporting nitro. However, my pen is for my enjoyment. It serves me in those special times I get to whip it out (yes, this is probably Freudian) and show off or just look at it and say to myself "this was hand-made...and only 375 others in the world exist like mine." Is it practical for how I use it. But, we don't use these pens to be utilitarian. Sure, the vintage pens are lighter and smaller...but the modern CS pens, in my opinion, offer a bit more luxury and haughty elegance for which my plebian existance calls out. I will never live in a mansion or enjoy the supple and powerful ride of a Bentley, but perhaps I can write with a luxury pen that has some history behind it. And let's face it, if that sucker is heavy it adds even more to the experience. I don't expect to write more than a minute or two with my pens...that's why I have a computer. But, when I sign my name, i want to to be an experience. This is why I have a modern CS. This is why the Nelson appeals to me and why I will always look at that sucker and say to myself "sure, you set me back 400 bucks, but you're gorgeous!" These pens are just so well put together and tastefully done.

Just a bit of shameless plugging. It comes from the heart.

Personally, I just enjoy the "old school" look about them. I have never been into the newest trendy pens. I love the look of their mosaic designs (the same can be said about Esties, Sheaffer, Parker, etc.). Regarding my 'antique' writers, I find myself wondering about previous owner(s) and what uses they found for the pen: letters to sweethearts, signing important work or personal documents, journalling, etc.

Having a bunch of vintage Conway Stewarts it was only natural that I wanted a new Conway Stewart, it just wasn't quite the pen I'd intended. I had planned to get an Azure Dandy and instead ended up with a beautiful red ripple Duro It has to be said, I love that pen, at present I'm still finding out what inks it likes.

Personally I think it's a shame that Conway Stewart have discontinued the 58 and Dandy because I'd like to see the smaller size pens, but not quite as small as a Dinkie and I don't like the Nightingales with them having a metal section.

Carrie,

I have a vintage black 28 and love it! However, I think the new pens are stunning and have great properties for a modern pen. I have a Flecked Autumn Nelson C/C (medium) and it's the smoothest writing pen I own. Everywhere I go, I get comments on it. I have also wanted an ebonite Churchill for a while, but will need to wait now after my Nelson purchase. Congrats on your Duro! The Red Ripple is a gorgeous color and I hear it feels great in the hand.

-Robert

I'd like to make a couple of points!

Firstly

When the modern CS company was launched, the pens produced reflected the history of the company and were made in sympathetic shapes (Dinkie, Dandy, 58, 100, Duro) and traditional materials (casein, ebonite, red ripple) which kept the vintage CS enthusiasts onside. Now the company seems to be trying to sell more upmarket pens in styles that have never been associated with CS (heavy metal pens, pierced overlays, maki-e, enamelling) and while these will presumably have a market they must expect to alienate a large number of the present clients who liked (and were more likely to afford) what was previously on offer. I think these people will turn back to their roots and remember what great value vintage CS pens are. Available in a huge range of sizes (Dinkie to Duro 26 - and bigger) and incredible colours at prices to suit all pockets! You can still buy a fully restored gorgeous 70 year old Duro 26 (quite a rare, large pen) for about the same price as a Churchill and if it is used carefully it should still appreciate further in value over the years, unlike the Churchill!

Secondly

Regarding Carrie's point that she is still looking to see what ink suits her modern Duro, I see a number of people on FPN saying that their modern pens are fussy about which ink they use or don't flow properly. Isn't this disgraceful when you are paying a lot of money for a new pen? After all, its main purpose is to write with and though you may expect to get slight performance variations depending on the viscosity of ink, shouldn't they all be able to work acceptably with any ink?

A properly adjusted Parker 51 will write well with just about anything, as do most of those of my vintage CS that are in writing condition.

Incidentally Carrie, I'd happily sell you my azure limited edition Dandy quite cheaply but it's such a rubbish writer compared with a vintage Dandy that I don't think I could really recommend it!

Rant now officially over!

Andy

Both of my modern Conwat Stewarts will write with any ink I've tried but they really like Noodlers and Aurora. Both, in extra fine, are buttery smooth. Also, I'm sure Mary Burke wrote here that any CS is still available as a bespoke pen. I also like the 58s and Dandys and was sorry to see them go. HOWEVER, Mary explained that they were getting costly to make and I would rather the company remained healthy and strong rather than cheapen their beautiful pens. I too have concluded that I use fountain pens because they are so damn pleasant to use, hold, and look at. They make everyday writing civilized and I find that I look for reasons to write. I've rediscovered how nice it is to write letters again!! All of this I knew years ago but had gotten sloppy and forgotten until a couple of years ago when I started using them almost exclusively. I discovered the joys of mechanical watches about the same time. I may never be fortuneate enough to own that Aston Martin but I can sure enjoy fine pens and watches!! (However, if I expect to get another English classic maybe I'd better slow down on these two hobbies or figure out a way to make money or at least break even..!!) Oh well..the cost of toys..

I agree with Andy, I'd much rather see pens reflecting the history of the company rather than the expensive Maki limited editions and suchlike that we're seeing today. I think many of the newer pens are very nice to look at, but from a practical point of view they just don't appeal to me.

As for ink, Noodlers turns my Duro into too much of a wet writer and the ink noticably feathers on any paper I've tried it on. The pen behaved much more as I would expect it to when filled with Herbin ink. I've got to admit that I've yet to try out the CS ink which came with the pen, but have always been very happy with CS ink in the past. At least the Duro doesn't seem to dry up after a couple of days without use, my Duofold Centennial is terrible in that respect.

Andy, what exactly is so bad about your Dandy that makes you class it as a rubbish writer?

Carrie,

Re the Dandy, it seems to be an unreliable starter with pretty much any ink I've tried that is more viscous than Quink.

It annoys me intensely when a pen won't start cleanly on the first stroke as my pens often stay capped for days until I want to use them to sign something - so unless you think to 'start' the pen first, you end up with a scruffy mess rather than a decent signature!

I've probably now done the (fine) nib no favours by trying to separate the tines slightly to improve the flow though still without success.

Incidentally, another thing that annoys me about modern Conways is that they seem to have re-issued limited edition pens as part of the standard range. My Dandy is one of a limited edition of 500, bought years ago when the model was first released (it remained pristine in its box until a few months ago). Until recently, it seems you were able to buy a standard Dandy in exactly the same design, no longer as a limited edition. Similarly with my white casein Churchill - once the limited edition was sold out, they seem to have re-issued it as a standard model, though at least they did have the good grace to change the colour of the ends to black. Unless I've got this all wrong, what is the incentive ever to buy limited edition CS pens?

And if I have got this wrong, I'm sure I will be informed shortly.......!

Andy

That really is a bit naughty. I'm surprised more owners haven't complained about it.

Have you never sent the pen back to Conway Stewart to see if you could get its problems solved? I'm getting rather annoyed with the Duofold I mentioned previously because of its habit of drying up when unused for a few days.

As regards your previous comment about a Parker 51 writing well. My most reliable P51 is still not happy with the ink we discussed by PM, yet open nibs will write quite happily with it.

Funnily enough, my P51 still writes first time with the diluted BBW, even after weeks of not being used. Unfortunately, it has a broad oblique nib that doesn't really suit me so I don't use it that much. The Dandy didn't like the BBW at any dilution at all! Have you had yours replaced yet by good stuff? I haven't heard any more recently. I've now sold most of my open nib full size vintage pens and I wouldn't put an indelible ink in any of my vintage Dinkies or Dandys for fear of staining.

My modern Dandy is now on its last chance with Noodlers Hunter Green and is showing some signs of behaving itself better, though not perfectly. If I don't get on with that, it'll be returned to its box. I never tried returning it to CS because I'd had it for several years before trying to use it and I didn't expect them to be interested. Had I known Dandys were going to be discontinued, I wouldn't have used it at all, I'd have sold it on, mint & boxed and let someone else deal with it! I've still got a couple of mint & boxed modern Dinkie sets though, if you're ever interested!!

Andy

I've only tried the BBW in my modern cheapies and the P51, like you, I wouldn't use any sort of eternal ink in any of my vintage pens nor am I going to try it again in the Duro or my Duofold. I've not heard anymore on it either. My P51 is currently inked up with the replacement ink and is perfectly happy with that, it's a colour which certainly gets a lot of interest at work - I even ended up telling one of our Engineers more about the P51 the other day!

I do like the couple of vintage Dinkies that I have and once I have some new shellac I'll re-sac one of them. If I'm in the right mood I find them nice to write with and my hands are small enough that a Dinkie isn't a problem. I've got to admit that I've never really looked at the modern Dinkies, somehow it seems more difficult to justify that sort of money on a smaller pen (there's probably some sort of warped logic there, just don't ask me what it might be!). You've got me wondering now, how do the modern CS pens compare in size to their vintage equivalents? In terms of a vintage Dinkie I was wondering how the modern compares to a 550. At this rate you're going to be telling me more about those Dinkie sets you have

As for Dinkies, I still want your little hybrid Dinkie that you showed off a while ago

In terms of size, I think all the modern CS pens that purport to be based on vintage CS designs are all slightly larger than the vintage version to reflect modern tastes. The Duro is slightly different - vintage Duros came in a wide range of sizes, from roughly Dinkie sized (Duro 50) to Churchill sized (Duro 26) with many variants in between.

I think the modern Dinkies are the closest to the 'real thing' that the modern CS company has ever produced, at least if you buy a casein version. They are the same length and general style as a 550 but quite a bit larger in diameter. They are superbly presented in an extremely good facsimile of the original leather wallets (only thing missing is the mirror on the rear of the pen slide), even down to the period stamps and coins included! The main downside is I suppose that they are only cartridge-filled.

I have two fountain pen & ballpoint sets, both still mint limited editions, one Woodland green casein (sorry for the tatty pictures, it's difficult to get the pens square when you have to lay the whole thing upside down on the scanner bed!)



and one solid silver



The silver is interesting to hold in that it is obviously much heavier than the standard, which may be an advantage in a small pen.

Here is a picture of a vintage set, circa 1931, for comparison.



Overall, the best buy for a writing Dinkie (in terms of cost / performance trade off) is probably an example from the 1930s in a similar shape to the one you lust after! The finish is known to CS collectors as 'peacock' or 'butterfly wings' - though if you happen to have a local aviary and there is a 'glossy starling' to be seen, it looks just like a flying version of this pen! Here's a picture I just found on the web.



If you seriously want to own one of these little works of art (the pen, not the bird), PM me and I'll see if I can sort something out to suit your budget, however meagre it may be!

Andy

For my tuppeny ha'worth I do plenty of handwriting in my normal day, in fact I look for opportunities to do so. For this I invested in a CS Churchill and use vintage pens for different colours or just for a change on the odd occasion.

The difference between them was much smaller than the cost would suggest, although the Churchill was by far the nicer pen with which to write. The nib was fabulous and would lay down a reliable line come what may, which always seemed to be just wet enough for smooth, easy and flowing writing. I have also been recognised by my pen, it was a bit loud!

The vintage pens I've had have never been quite as smooth nor reliable as writers and, in my opinion, less suited for daily hard graft as they needed a lot more concentration to keep neat. The softer nibs which vary in thickness so much with pressure and direction can write beautifully and are capable of better results than the relatively bland Churchill nib (an F), but rapid note taking is the order of the vast majority of my writing and the new pen perfect and enjoyable in this mode. I looked after it obessively and it was unmarked and beautiful, showing no signs of wear.

However, my beloved Churchill is no more, (unless I see it on eb*y, and I'm looking!) as I lost it. No longer being willing to shell out so much for a pen I've been playing with the dreaded eb*y to replace it with a suitable vintage pen. I now have a few to choose from (what fun!), the most expensive is a beautiful Burnham at £20 and the others between £5-8. Cheap skate I know but I have a couple of very nice pens there to test in everyday life. If people are interested I'll report on them. (I can certainly vouch for the comment someone made about the quality of Mabie-Todd nibs.)

I would conclude there is a place for both new and vintage CS pens, of you're prepared to pay for the new one. The new pens give a certain satisfaction in use that the vintage pens cannot give. Similarly the other way round. For me more so, if I can find a suitable vintage pen for heavy, everyday use.


Greg

Awww, you mean to say I can't have the bird, he's cute. Meanie

I have to admit; I had another serious problem with the Conway Stewart Nelson I purchased. The cap came apart. Apparently, there is a brass piece that fits inside the cap. This piece came unglued from the plastic, and the cap just came apart. And like that, I became turned off to the modern Conways. So, perhaps I was a bit too hasty in composing my original commentary, but I obviously had no idea this would happen. The dealer graciously took the pen back and allowed me to trade. I now own a beautiful and well-built Waterman Edson LE (which I got for less than 1/2 of its retail price...woohoo). I have to say the Nelson was a special pen...beautiful and striking. However, the quality was lacking. Now, I own two vintage Conways and they do not write nearly as smooth as the Nelson or the Edson. So, they will probably stay in the pen case. At any rate, the Nelson was fun while it lasted!

Robert

I think most people who have experienced the new CS pens would agree that the nibs are from the top drawer (I would agree they are better than the vintage pens, but then they are also new and not survived for 40-60 years!). How does your Edison write compared to the Nelson you had?


Greg

I've got to admit that I'm about the send my Duro back to CS again because its fine nib is skipping quite badly with CS, Diamine or Herbin inks. As it's such a smooth nib I'm thinking that maybe it's suffering from a "baby's bottom" effect. To contrast, it's the wetter writer ever when filled with Noodler's ink and I end up with ink that feathers badly and nobody would ever guess that I was writing with a fine nib.

Greg,

The Nelson's nib had a wonderful writing characteristic. It was springy, just like a Pelikan 1000 nib. I imagine this is because it basically IS a Pelikan nib, but there you have it.

The Nelson was almost as smooth as my Legacy, which is almost as smooth as my Edson LE. The Edson is definately the smoothest writing pen that I have, but the nib is very stiff. Interestingly enough, the Edson's nib gives me the impression there is a slight stub grind on the iridium. What I mean is, I can tell the up and down strokes are slightly wider than my side strokes. I really like this about the Waterman...that and the fact that the pen starts with a good, medium flow of ink every time. The Conway was a true medium and skipped from time to time, although it was a wet writer.

The Nelson was a heavy pen! It was by far heavier than the Edson and even heavier than the Legacy, which has a brass barrel construction. That being said, the balance on all three pens is terrific. Here's the rub - don't even think about posting a Nelson! Posting such a beautiful pen is really out of the question anyway, but it throws the balance so far off, I felt like I had an anvil sitting on top of the pen (the brass insert in the cap). I haven't posted the Edson, but the pen is large enough that posting is really not needed (besides, heaven forbid I scratch it up).

The Nelson seemed a bit longer and thicker than the Edson LE, but it was a comfortable pen to hold in spite of its great size. I really did like the Conway, but I have to admit that if I had tried the Edson LE first, I probably would have purchased it from the get-go.

Robert

Interesting comments about the Pelikan nib, makes it sound rather like that of a typical vintage CS! I found an old book with a message to its first owner in the front cover, dated 1928 and clearly (literally!) written in a fountain pen and with quite a range of thickness. It was very attractive but did not appear to result from careful calligraphy, merely the way people wrote with pens with such nibs.

I am now thinking of changing from my everyday pen from my new (to me) Burnham with a Fine, 'round' tip to an incredibly cheap CS 55 with the characteristics you describe (albeit rather too broad for quick and regular use) in order to try and develop such a style naturally.

With regard you Pelikan nib I found the attached pic (which I hope comes out ok) which clearly shows what you describe on both 'normal' nibs and oblique.

There are quite a few lines about modern CS quality already written in this thread. As an almost newbie I will try and risk a bit with some personal thoughts. I will base them on the experience I have with the following modern CS's: 1 Duro, 2 Churchill and 2 100's (Ollie, I think this makes 5). All are fitted with F nibs excepting both 100 which have EF. All of them are in perfect working order and only one needed some repair in the piston filling system at CS home, which was carried out in what I call "a perfect way". All are smooth writers and with no faults. I think it may be normal that some may escape the quality control that every user may have with his only or own pen, but if after sales service works as well as it did for me, I si no point in doing heavy critics on it. In addition, my wife has a 58 and her face says all ...

On the other hand I have 17 vintage CS's, mostly 60 and 58's, I agree, quality, materials, .... everything is marvellous, but in our days it is not as easy as then to mass produce pens, and if we want QUALITY... that means $$$ or €€€ ... we cannot ask them to keep prices looow ... am I right?

Cheers
Jose

Brandy's regards to Ollie...

My comments were based mainly on style rather than quality. I just don't like the latest designs of pens which are so far removed from the history of the company - but that is only a personal opinion.

After trying several different 'permanent' inks, my modern Dandy is behaving itself with Noodlers Hunter Green and, for the time being at least, I am relatively happy with it. I would rather use a vintage CS pen but I think the modern resin pens should be better suited to permanent inks than the vintage celluloid or casein pens.

I'm glad you like the WES Churchill, I have the occasional twinge of regret that I sold it.... However, the proceeds went towards adding another 'museum piece' (pictured below) to my collection!

(and Ollie says 'woof' to Brandy too!)

Andy

Of course, Andy, please do not misunderstand me... I may agree too with the idea that a modern pen should not be as ink-filthy (?) as they usually are with those ultra-thinn cappillary air-ink slots which are very prone to obstruction or to develop solid deposits... I agree with you in this point. Regarding design you may already know that I'm a 50-60-100 liker, and that comes directly out from the clasical CS's. Vintage flat-tops are much more ellaborate (Duros) than the modern ones. Perhaps this helps in preserving the vintage ones by using the modersn... just a thought...

Brandy is asking for DINNER ... must go or it will be my last post ...

Ah... congrats on your very nice set, I hope you enjoy it as I'm doing with the WES Churchill, it behaves very well indeed!! Thanks a lot!