[thibaulthalpern]

So I've been looking around on various sites, including this one, reading about flexy nibs and looking to buy an affordable and nice flexy nib pen. It seems to me that there is a lot of misuse of the term "flex". I have heard numerous time people say that the Vanishing Point's nib has "some flex". I don't think the VP nibs has "some flex". It could be a little bit springy but it has no flex. And then, I've also heard other other pens that I know described to have "flex in the nib" when it really is more of a soft-ish nib and bend a little but no line variation really. Then, there's the Namiki Falcon which I believe is advertised as having flex but again really it's more of a soft nib.

Do you think people these days are misusing the term "flex" to describe nibs that give a bit of spring or softness? Much of the time when a seller is selling a "flexy" pen I resort to directly contacting them and asking them "really, how flexible is it".

[gyasko]

Yes, you're right. Some Pilot nibs are soft, but the only modern one that's really flexible is the FA.

[Titivillus]

So I've been looking around on various sites, including this one, reading about flexy nibs and looking to buy an affordable and nice flexy nib pen. It seems to me that there is a lot of misuse of the term "flex". I have heard numerous time people say that the Vanishing Point's nib has "some flex". I don't think the VP nibs has "some flex". It could be a little bit springy but it has no flex. And then, I've also heard other other pens that I know described to have "flex in the nib" when it really is more of a soft-ish nib and bend a little but no line variation really. Then, there's the Namiki Falcon which I believe is advertised as having flex but again really it's more of a soft nib.

Do you think people these days are misusing the term "flex" to describe nibs that give a bit of spring or softness? Much of the time when a seller is selling a "flexy" pen I resort to directly contacting them and asking them "really, how flexible is it".

What is flex really? is 'softness' really just a mild form of flex since flex is just the ability for the tines to part and return to the original position.

[Ondina]

Yes, you're right. Some Pilot nibs are soft, but the only modern one that's really flexible is the FA.

Hi Badger! I believe the FA is, at best, semiflex, being one of the characteristics of the pen the great responsiveness degrees, this is, the inconsistency in flex of the nib out of the box.
Other modern pens with semiflex nibs are the Pilot Custom 942/943 FA, which I believe is a bit more flexy than the Falcon, and the Elastic Flexible nibs of the Namiki Piccolo ( my dream nib, but at such an stratospheric price I'll never own one, unfortunately).

I've read Feiye's review on an Montegrappa Miya Argento Miya Argento Turquoise review, and if she says "flex" it means so, not soft nor springy. I've heard some modern Italians are semiflex, too, but can't cite specific models, others here may contribute much more than me on that field.

This post has been edited by Ondina: 12 November 2008 - 03:07 PM

[thibaulthalpern]

What is flex really? is 'softness' really just a mild form of flex since flex is just the ability for the tines to part and return to the original position.

To me, flex is when really the tines separate enough (not due to a ton of downward pressure) to give line variation. Softness is really when there is a bit of spring in the tines (feedback, if you will) but not enough for line variation. Softness usually doesn't produce line variation unless you use quite a bit of pressure.

[jbn10161]

Do you think people these days are misusing the term "flex" to describe nibs that give a bit of spring or softness?

I think that's exactly right. I think there's one continuum of firm to springy, and another one of stiff--although it's often also called firm--to flexible. Japanese nibs marked H or S are firm (hard) or springy (soft). Most modern nibs except Pilot's FA are relatively stiff. I'm not sure how a nib could be both flexible and springy, but my experience is limited to modern nibs. My 1980s Pelikan M400 and Waterman Gentleman are both pretty flexible without being particularly springy; my recent but older style Omas Bologna is springy without being notably flexible, but neither is it all that stiff; all of a sudden I have an urge to take out all my pens and try to find their places on the range of firm-springy and stiff-flexible...!

[Lloyd]

Regarding the Namiki Falcon: I used to own a fine nibbed Falcon that was almost a firm nib to my hand. I sold it. I bought a 743 and love its flexability (not a Noodle but still OK). Then I spotted a medium nibbed Falcon on the greenboard for a steal and decided to give it a try. This Falcon, with Noodlers Black to ensure line fineness and minimal feathering, is at least as flexible/soft as the 743. I don't know if there is softness variability in the Falcons or softness variability due to nib size but I love this Falcon.

[wykpenguin]

Most of the line variation I get from my VP comes from lifting the pen up and writing faster rather than pressing down on the nib. I can however separate the tines a bit by pressing down. So I will agree with you that the nib is soft but not very flexy.

Soft/springy and flex are too different things. A soft nib can bend a lot, but there is no guarantee that bending results in separation of the tines. Think of bending your fingers, they bend together but they don't necessarily separate. My definition of flex would be that the bending from pressure causes a lot of separation of the tines, for which dip pens and many vintage pens (vintage as in Swan EDs not Pel400s) fit the bill.

[thibaulthalpern]

Soft/springy and flex are too different things. A soft nib can bend a lot, but there is no guarantee that bending results in separation of the tines. Think of bending your fingers, they bend together but they don't necessarily separate. My definition of flex would be that the bending from pressure causes a lot of separation of the tines, for which dip pens and many vintage pens (vintage as in Swan EDs not Pel400s) fit the bill.

Yes, wykpenguin, that's my understanding too. I would consider the two fingers bending metaphor an apt description of soft/springy.

I also have a Namiki Falcon and when I first got it I though "Oh wow, this is really flex!" Of course, my previous FPs before that were quite firm. Then I later tried a friend's flexi and then bought my own 742 with FA nib and that was more on the flexi side than the Namiki Falcon which now I really consider to be just soft. In fact, my Namiki Falcon's nib is imprinted with the letters "SF" which stands for "Soft Fine".

[psfred]

Soft tines that bend under light pressure and spring back when released does not make a flexible nib to my mind -- the tines must spread significantly under light pressure, not just spring upward.

I have nibs with both characteristics, and believe me, you will not mistake a soft nib for a true flex nib! Adjusted correctly so that the tips actually touch, a flex nib will write a hairline at zero pressure and a line four or five times the width of the tipping under moderate pressure. Some will flex so far that the ink flow is interupted, giving a "railroad track" effect, although I would think this is overkill and should be avoided to prevent a sprung nib.

One of the more common semi-flex nibs from the 40's (Parker Vacs made in Canada often have these, so do Sheaffer Cadet 23's, and Esterbrook X048 nibs are usually at least semiflex) will give pronounced shading with ordinary writing use, although the full effect of the nib won't show up unless you use the correct technique. The flex may or may not look good with your handwriting, depending on what part of the letters you press down on!

Peter

[winedoc]

A pen may be "flexy" for one, but not for a different user. This is all depends on what you are used to writing with. If you are used to Waterman Edson, then Namiki Falcon is quite flexy for that person... If you uses vintage pens, then none of the modern ones you would consider flexy enough. As for me, I can't write with vintage flex.

Kevin

[secretasianman]

If you want a gross exaggeration, then compare a Hunt 101 to a Pilot Varsity. The Varsity is "springy": push it down and it will give, but damned if the tines separate. (very well designed, IMO for introducing people to fountain pens. It will give under the iron grip of a ball point user, but ink won't splatter as the tines snap back in place). The 101's tines will open, but won't spring back with much force.

[feiye]

To me, flex is where the tines on a pen spread enough to show line variation without undue amounts of pressure and it must return to its original state once the light pressure is released. It need not be a huge amount but it has to be enough to see the variation and must be able to do so without me breaking a sweat. My Miya Argento that Ondina pointed out, is flexy to me but its tines don't spread a huge amount, however it's enough to show significant variation.

On the other hand, a true highly flexy pen...



Its tines spread easily, to an impressive amount with just some pressure.

The FA from Pilot is a flex pen to me, but it was not designed to be used for Western calligraphy.

[vermiculus]

You should remember that the word "flexible" as used by a fountain pen collector is very specialised. Flexibility is just the ability to bend and spring back.

The same is true for lawyers, sportspeople, printers, crafstmen of any kind and collectors of anything you care to name!

[JJBlanche]

I believe the textbook definition of flex is, as others have said, a propensity for a given nib to separate its tines under light to moderate pressure, causing some degree of line variation. A true flex typically has the exaggerated and attractive look that feiye has pictured, while a semi-flex can go anywhere from fairly expressive to barely noticeable. My medium VP does have line variation, but it's only noticeable when doing a quick signature, and even then it's not screaming obvious. And as others have noted, some pens of the same model and manufacturer can vary greatly. The 1745s, for example, are considered semi-flex by and large, and I wouldn't hesitate to put them under that heading. But flex on some examples is much more pronounced -- and requires less effort to arrive at -- when compared to others.

As simple a mechanism as a fountain pen nib is, they are often very difficult to get consistent one pen to the next without the attention to detail someone like Richard affords, especially and particularly where flex is concerned.