[Oso]

I have a couple of Moleskine journals. I think that many have judged these books by the cover (and binding) which are very good and of the highest quality. The paper inside is not the best. It bleeds through and just seems kind of cheap. The problem is that it isn't cheap.

I have switched to Clairfontaine journals. The paper is much better and they are about the same size. They, however, lack the better binding and a few amenities that the Moleskine have.

I wish I could find a journal that is about the same size (5"X8 1/4") that had the built in book mark, elastic band to hold it closed, good ph neutral paper that didn't bleed through and had the handy pockets in the back. If I were in charge things would be different.

This post has been edited by Oso: 21 January 2006 - 07:16 AM

[KCkc]

Yes, I agree, Moleskin is just hype.Got one and it's no different than any cheapie Office depot paper quality. I guess I paid for the marketing cost.

I like Rhodia much better -- no bleeding, no feathering -- tested both with a wet writer in Florida Blue. Another one is Paper Chase that Borders carries, nice thick FP-friendly paper.

This post has been edited by KCkc: 21 January 2006 - 07:24 AM

[Watermoon]

Rhodia and Clairefontaine notebooks have some of the best paper around. Both brands are owned by the same company, although Clairefontaine's finish is silkier.

Clairefontaine also makes spiral-bound notebooks with a couple of inner pockets, with black or tan covers that look better than Moleskine's Cahiers.

Miquelrius notebooks have a soft, leather-like cover, black or bright red, and you can add your own elastic band and bookmark. They're not the size of a Moleskine, though: either smaller or bigger, and some of them are quite thick.

Ciak (an Italian brand) has a very elegant leather-like cover with an horizontal elastic band. Looks more modern than the classic Moleskine. A bit thicker, too, and even more expensive.

Some Borders bookstores carry the Noto, by Paperchase, another Italian notebook with an horizontal elastic band and a bookmark, no pocket.

I've always used Rhodia and Clairefontaine, just tested Miquelrius, and I still have to try Ciak and Noto. I currently carry a Moleskine pocket weekly (instead of a Quo Vadis, for a change) and a no-name spiral notebook (I like those translucent plastic covers, they go so well with a Pelikan 200 blue demonstrator!), and both have a better paper than the classic M. For journaling and notetaking, I definitely prefer spiral notebooks, since they can be folded back flat when my space is limited.

[KendallJ]

Surprisingly, I think you shoudl try this one from Barnes and Noble. There was a thread around here a while ago about them. The paper is surprisingly good with no bleed. Containes a book marker. The cover is Kraft, but solid enough to be used without additional cover. For harsh exposure its meant to be put in a variety of covers they have available.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...765534789&itm=3

[Titivillus]

Oso, on Jan 21 2006, 01:14 AM, said:

I have a couple of Moleskine journals. I think that many have judged these books by the cover (and binding) which are very good and of the highest quality. The paper inside is not the best. It bleeds through and just seems kind of cheap. The problem is that it isn't cheap.

I've got about a half dozen of the little pocket grid versions and have been using them for awhile. They use a thin paper that just like a light pen some people equate with cheap. I don't have problems with feathering on the paper and the bleedthrough I get is more of a shadow of what's on the back. THere's a thread somewhere here where I scanned in the front and back of a page that I wrote with a dozen or so pens. The only one that did feather was an incredibly wer medium MArlen but I don't take notes with that. I like this as it gives the book a lived in feel. The same way that a journal that has been completely written has a different feel than a brand new book.

Clairfontaine and Rhodia leave me cold as they have sized the paper in submission and I feel like I'm writing on waxed paper some of the time with ink laying on the surface and not drying. The binding decomposed about half way through the pad as well as it was a glue binding only.

Just like with a pen it comes down to personal preference as to what paper/ journal you like to write on and in.

I don't believe the hype around the M. and got all of mine off of ebay for 1/2-1/3 the msrp.


Kurt H

[PaulK]

Really surprised by this thread. I use Noodler's and PR inks but have never had a bleed-through or feathering problem with my journals. In fact, I write on both sides of the paper will no ill-effects. Could the problem be that your pen(s) are really wet writers? The problem I've had has been with using non-permanent inks and having some smudging (resolved by using either Legal Lapis or Luxury Blue). I also noticed that many in other forums mention that they seem to gravitate towards fine and extra-fine nibs when journalling (I use a medium though).

I'm not a die-hard Moleskine user. I would certainly consider other journals (in fact, I really like Kendall's Barnes & Nobles referral). I think on my last purchase, I was just looking for something with the elastic closure and easily transportable.

Paul

[xburninmystarsx]

PaulK, on Jan 21 2006, 09:33 AM, said:

Really surprised by this thread.  I use Noodler's and PR inks but have never had a bleed-through or feathering problem with my journals.  In fact, I write on both sides of the paper will no ill-effects. ...

I'm not a die-hard Moleskine user.  I would certainly consider other journals (in fact, I really like Kendall's Barnes & Nobles referral).  I think on my last purchase, I was just looking for something with the elastic closure and easily transportable.

Paul

I am surprised as well, but the more I think about it; it does make sense.

Presently now, I am curious to try something else. I use the Moleskine because it is a sure archival winner. However, just for my everyday sketching and compositions, the Moleskine is eating my pocketbook alive.

If you have suggestions for locations and brand names to try in the US, please drop me a few. I looked at some Clairfontaine and Rhodia's on-line, however I wouldn't know where to start looking for these locally. They both look Italian made.



Thanks for your time and your great topic.

This post has been edited by xburninmystarsx: 21 January 2006 - 05:23 PM

[Watermoon]

Some pens are more Moleskine-friendly than others: see this page.

In my experience, a Safari with Waterman Blue is absolutely safe. You might want to use a napkin as a blotter.

[Random]

KendallJ, on Jan 21 2006, 06:39 AM, said:

Surprisingly, I think you shoudl try this one from Barnes and Noble. There was a thread around here a while ago about them. The paper is surprisingly good with no bleed. Containes a book marker. The cover is Kraft, but solid enough to be used without additional cover. For harsh exposure its meant to be put in a variety of covers they have available.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearc...765534789&itm=3

I have to second this suggestion. I discovered these a number of years ago and they have always worked well for me. The books themselves are very plain but insert into a number of different covers. My personal favorite happens to be
Distressed Brown Leather Journal

The paper has a nice thickness and has never once feathered or bled on me, even when writing with a very wet writer.

[petra]

Have you all tryiedy the moleskine blank sketchbook instead of the regular journals? The paper is much thicker, has a terrific surface and ink doesn't show through at all-- which definitely does happen in the thinner paper versions.

Petra

[ednerdtheonly]

Never used a moleskine, but from what I've read, I believe that they have used several different batches of paper; some feather easily, others don't.

Being a cheapie, I use Mead spiralbound notebooks that cost half a dollar. They vary in the amount of surface sizing, internal sizing, and smoothness of paper, so when I find a good batch at a store, I buy a couple. The one I'm using for general notetaking is ridiculously smooth and bleedproof; I've spilled ink on the paper without any ghosting on the other side.

I cut my own watercolor books too; I bought myself a stockpile of now discontinued Fabriano Uno soft press 140# and cut/fold them into whatever size needed.

Edward

[drifting]

ednerdtheonly, on Jan 21 2006, 10:23 PM, said:

Never used a moleskine, but from what I've read, I believe that they have used several different batches of paper; some feather easily, others don't. 

I'd agree with this statement.

I started a slow search for the perfect journal about four years ago (still looking ). I liked the form factor of the Moleskine, but I'd read a lot about the tendency to feather, so I stayed away for quite a long time. Recently I've seen more people say the paper is fine, so I thought I'd finally give it a try. Being cheap and somewhat sceptical, I picked up some lined pocket Cahiers first. Great! No problems.

Then I saw these cool guide templates and picked up some large blank Cahiers to play with. Terrible. One side of each sheet was okay, the other feathered badly. Unfortunately, the side that feathered was the right hand page in an open book. I didn't get much bleed through.

The corporate websites say the paper in the real Moleskines and the Cahiers is the same. If so, I think the quality is too variable for me to bother picking up a proprer Moleskine.

I also agree with Kurt - I find the Clairefontaine waxy at times, but it has enough going for it that I keep coming back to it. I really like Rhodia pads `for scratch work, but their notebook lines do nothing for me. I've just started a couple of different Miquelrius notebooks. I like the paper so far, but not the form factors. Still looking!

Ryan.

This post has been edited by drifting: 22 January 2006 - 12:30 AM

[Apollo]

I'm currently using a Moleskine plain notebook for the first time and it's worked fine for me thus far. I've only used Waterman inks on it (WM Florida Blue and Blue Black) and haven't experienced any feathering or "bleeding." Since it's really my first time using this notebook as a journal, I can't offer much except for my own experience with it, but could it be that Moleskine paper is inconsistent from book to book or does it just depend on the fountain pen and ink used? Incidentally, I've been using a variety of pens on my Moleskine (Parker 51 Special Edition, Signum Orione, Aurora Ipsilon, Sailor 1911 and a recently acquired Taccia Andante) with fine and medium nibs.

This post has been edited by Apollo: 22 January 2006 - 01:57 AM

[Larry T]

I have two of the Moleskine lined journals in the 5x8 size, bought at the same Barnes and Noble about six months apart. The first one worked fine, no feathering, and no bleeding as long as I used a fine nib. I generally use a Phileas with WM blue-black or Florida blue. The newer Moleskine feathers and bleeds horribly with the same ink and pen combination. I won't buy them any more because the paper quality is so variable.

Larry

[drifting]

Apollo, on Jan 22 2006, 12:53 AM, said:

I'm currently using a Moleskine plain notebook for the first time and it's worked fine for me thus far. I've only used Waterman inks on it (WM Florida Blue and Blue Black) and haven't experienced any feathering or "bleeding." Since it's really my first time using this notebook as a journal, I can't offer much except for my own experience with it, but could it be that Moleskine paper is inconsistent from book to book or does it just depend on the fountain pen and ink used? Incidentally, I've been using a variety of pens on my Moleskine (Parker 51 Special Edition, Signum Orione, Aurora Ipsilon, Sailor 1911 and a recently acquired Taccia Andante) with fine and medium nibs.

I suspect it's a bit of both. The general online concensus a few years ago seemed to be 'stay away from your Moleskine with any fountain pen' - though admittedly, I wasn't reading FP forums back then, but more recently I started reading a lot of recommendations for Noodlers black (designed not to feather on (Potty Mouth) paper) and fine nibs. So as far as that goes, Moleskine paper is thin and a big fat wet writer is probably not the way to go, even if you've got a 'good' book.

I used Noodlers, Herbin, Sailor, and Namiki inks of various colours in about half a dozen pens, all with F or EF nibs. One set of Cahiers was good with all inks, one set of Cahiers was bad with all inks. My take is it's thinnish paper you need to use common sense with at the best of times, and there must be enough poor performing batches out there for the reputation as anti-fountain pen to persist. Though judging by the number of people who've never had a problem, the number of good batches must be larger than the bad.

I'm such a consumer victim, though. I think 'ze book of ze great artiste' marketing is irritating, the price is a bit uncalled for, and my own experience with the paper is sketchy, and yet I still need to fight the urge to slip one into my shopping basket everytime I walk by a display.

Ryan.