[georgem]

Quote

...i tend to go cheap but not so cheap as Mead which is great for pencil, not so good for FP. Especially not my heavy inks....

I used Meads for a long time. They're OK with *most* of my Waterman Ink (not the Violet, Havana, or Red). The Herbin, even the Bleu Azur, bleeds right through.

I still use Meads at work, primarily for to-do lists, notes about part numbers, customers' requests, etc. If the pen & ink of the day bleeds through, so be it. I just don't write on the reverse side of the page. I couldn't justify something like the Clairefontaine for that purpose. I'll have to make note of the other journals mentioned. That gives me something to investigate.

Quote

I like Clairefontaine journals, though I would like them more if they were narrow-ruled....

Velma, have you looked at the Seyes ruling? There's an example elsewhere on this board. BTW, how large is the ruling in the Letts journals?

KCat, thanks for the suggestion about Tuesday Mornings. There's one in a local shopping area next to the Stop & Shop Grocery. I'll have to check it out.

Storage, hmmmmmmmm. You mean the haphazard stack in my night table and bookcase?

Edited Postscript:

Here are links to the posted Seyes Ruling:

http://www.fountainp...mages/seyes.doc

http://www.fountainp...mages/seyes.dot

http://www.fountainp...mages/seyes.pdf

This post has been edited by georgem: 01 April 2005 - 01:45 AM

[grimloki]

Confessions of a Paper Addict
(may be unsuitable for children)

It all started when my local store ran out of Clairefontaine journals. They were the only store in my city to carry it now. The shopkeeper said a new shipment would be in in a month and a half. I think she saw me shake for just a second, before I smiled politely and tried to act like I didn't really care anyway.

I still had one... maybe 45 pages left. I did the math in my head... 45 pages front and back was enough for 2-3 days. Thats not enough time to allow for shipping! I'd be out again, stuck in withdrawl, wandering the streets between checking the mail, and generally being miserable. I knew then this had to stop. I had gotten in too deep, and it was affecting my life.

I had to find another source for journals. Something more accessible. Something cheaper. I was tired of Clairefontaine prices anyway.

I searched google groups, and web pages, and forums like this. Just like I did on the quest for the perfect pen (another story).

Theres a company called Komtrak. They make refillable binding systems with papers that are nice and smooth. Smoother in fact than Clairefontaine (which, until recently, I didn't think was possible).

I spoke to the owner, trying to find a local source, and in the course of the conversation he dropped the word 'calendering' in describing the process which makes his paper smooth. It was all I needed.

I started searching, and found the whole sordid world of where paper comes from. A world of enormous mills and inscrutable jargon, where minimum orders are measured in tons, and the paper sits on pallets and in rolls 3 feet tall and enormously thick.

I found out that there is 'calendering' and then there is 'supercalendering'. The latter is better, as it runs the paper through 30 or so hot rollers at enormous pressure, to make a finish so smooth it will compete with magazine papers, but uncoated and thus safe for fountain pens. http://www.richardhough.co.uk/paper_industry_main.gif

Its normally used for catalogs and high end full color printing. I had a hunch it was what I was looking for. Call it a junkie's intuition. I searched for consumer paper made from the right stock... and I did, in papers meant for printing high end digital art. I had some samples sent to me under vague pretenses.

There are a few calendared and supercalendared papers in the consumer market, but the best I've found so far is 4CC Color Copy. Luckily for other interested parties, Stora Enso offers free samples. Of course its always free... till you get hooked.

Yet blank paper, no matter how nice, is not the same as a journal. After finding the right paper, the paper I couldn't live without now, my only choice is to make my own journals... and I have all the book cloth, bone knives, glue, thread, etc coming from a friend to make my own.

I've heard marijuana leads to carpentry. I guess paper leads to book binding.

The one thing I can't find out is how to get the paper ruled cost effectively... except the ink jet route, which I just might have to live with.. though I'd prefer a ruling machine, though those weigh 2 tons and have to be shipped from Malaysia. I think thats a little excessive. I'm waiting on a couple of quotes from printers. If they don't pan out, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who manages a Kinko's.

Robert

[ElaineB]

Yes, I ended up binding my own journals, too. (I thought I was the only one, so I never mentioned it because I thought y'all would consider me crazy!)

Honestly, it doesn't take too long. I can sew, glue, and case a new book for myself in an evening. These aren't the finest examples of bookbinding techniques, but they're sturdy, open flat, and I use nice paper for the cover and endpapers. I even stick little folders in the back like the Moleskine books. I don't put an elastic around the covers, but I always bind in a silk ribbon to use as a bookmark -- which I find extremely helpful for daily use.

I use nice paper for the pages, of course. Generally smooth writing papers that I get at the local stationery store. (They break up reams into packs of 100 sheets for very reasonable prices.)

And it's fun. :)

ElaineB

[Fulcanelli]

ElaineB, on Apr 2 2005, 05:18 PM, said:

Yes, I ended up binding my own journals, too.

That does have a certain appeal, rolling your own. Have you ever thought of making your own ink? I haven't found discussions on that yet (and haven't looked) but that might be interesting as well. I read somewhere recently about the inks used. I think it was in a discussion of old books and how the ink eventually turned a brownish color. I wish I could remember where I read it...wait...it was in an art magazine, probably Art on Paper. Yes, the previous issue. Now that I think on it, that magazine would have a lot of interest to those of us with inky thoughts.

I will alert others in a separate post.

[Velma]

KCat, on Mar 31 2005, 08:29 AM, said:

For a while I bought only these black cloth, wire-bound, 100% recycled paper journals from the local art supply store.  Continuity is nice - but I get bored. :)  Sometimes I think it would be nice to have the sort of set-up that Levenger has - you can get a journal that fits into a nice cover. When the journal is filled, you can store it next to all the previously filled journals and they all look the same except for the label.  But then I see some cool little journal on sale and can't help myself.

Store them?

oh.. you mean the shoe boxes stacked in my closet...  :D

Oddly enough, The Container Store has a type of spiral notebook with hard covers that work well with dry-write fountain pens; I just used one for my last journal. They come in assorted colors, so you can have the same size and shape of book but with different covers. They're rather like the Xonex ones I used in the 1980s, until they were discontinued.

I am still in pursuit of The Perfect Journal Book, which means that I buy any likely ones, and when the stack of near-misses gets too high, I tend to bring them in to work, and offer them to my co-workers. In the meantime, I have a shelf and a half of near-misses (well, right now, I have two boxes of near-misses, because we just moved).

Some day, though...

[Velma]

georgem, on Mar 31 2005, 05:01 PM, said:

Velma, have you looked at the Seyes ruling? There's an example elsewhere on this board. BTW, how large is the ruling in the Letts journals?

The Seyes looks interesting; I'll have to experiment with some. The Letts Soft-Touch journal I'm currently using (XNB) has rulings of .5cm, which I like a lot, and which are rare in American books (narrow ruling is .25in).

(I note that the Noodler's Blue did not dry as fast as I thought in this Letts of London book, and now today's entry will be on a blue-stippled page. So it goes.)

[KCat]

Velma, on Apr 6 2005, 09:28 AM, said:

I am still in pursuit of The Perfect Journal Book, which means that I buy any likely ones, and when the stack of near-misses gets too high, I tend to bring them in to work, and offer them to my co-workers. In the meantime, I have a shelf and a half of near-misses (well, right now, I have two boxes of near-misses, because we just moved).

Some day, though...

I know this problem only too well. The other side of this coin is that I have found great journals for great prices. like the $3 flip-back journals from Big Lots, that are quickly sold out.

I have a few stippled pages too, Velma. :)

[KCat]

Denis Richard, on Apr 6 2005, 11:46 AM, said:

My Borders is having all their Moleskine products on sale 50% off. Thought it might interest you. Your local Borders might be doing the same.

i've been rather down of late - so tomorrow i'm meeting "the Guys" for lunch and I've talked myself into dropping by Texas Art Supply for a rhodia pad or two. It's cheaper than ordering them on-line by about $1 per pad. of course, the fuel to drive there is probably more than that but I have the excuse of meeting hubby and friends for lunch. :)

No Border's nearby - but a B&N. They often have journal sales and a ton to choose from.

it won't be cheaper than a pen... but it will be more acceptable. :)

[ElaineB]

Fulcanelli, on 3 Apr 2005, said:

Have you ever thought of making your own ink?  I haven't found discussions on that yet

Gosh, yes, I've been looking all over the place for information on ink composition. I do a lot of work with textile dyes and have piles of them here at home. From what little I've been able to find, these dyes are the same as (or similar to) dyes used in inks, so I've already got the most important raw materials in hand! I just need to find a basic formula to play with.

But information on the web is scarce. I haven't had much luck plumbing the Patent Office database, either. I'm guessing most of the ink patents were written before 1975 and those older patents aren't searchable by keyword. Someday I'll have to head over to the big public library in Boston, and see if they've got an industrial publications or trade journals with information on inks.

ElaineB

[æon]

Hi, I just registered. I post on Rambling Snail occasionally, and browse Pentrace daily.

I'd like to throw my lot in with the Letts of London soft touch XNB notebook. Narrow 5mm grey ruling, all the way to the end of the page, and no side margin to waste space. The paper is excellent, never any feathering or bleeding, and it has a nice texture (ie. not ice smooth). It's sewn with a ribbon bookmark, and the fake leather cover has a very nice feel to it.

It's only available in Canada as far as I can tell (Vancouver Pen Shop is my local place), but can be ordered online for $20CDN.

I bought a couple Moleskines online, and found that they're a bit flimsy feeling compared to the Letts. Not as many stitches, and thinner paper. The oilskin (read: vinyl) cover isn't nearly as nice feeling. I have a hard time writing in the standard pocket size, but maybe the large size that I have will be better, as it's about the same as my Letts. Plus there are no sources for Moleskine in Vancouver...

A note on the history of Moleskine, the company that sells them now started production in the late 1990's, so even if famous people did use a similar book, it wasn't made by the same company.

I've been searching online for the perfect paper or journal source, and have come up with nothing. Paper history sites on the net will tell you that the longest lasting, finest paper used to be made with 100% hemp or linen rags, but it doesn't seem that there are any makers of pure hemp or linen paper around anymore. Cotton, the modern substitute, is even hard to find. Bonded, 100% cotton rag paper, acid free, is usually made in super thick watercolour and art weights and sizes (90lb and up!!!), or are made for heavy duty printing uses, with various coatings. The only 100% cotton paper that I can find online is Crane's business papers. Plus, if I wanted a journal, I'd have to get it cut, ruled, sewn, and bound, which would be quite expensive.

I think some enterprising fountain pen user should commission a run of leather covered journals with luxurious archival quality paper, narrow ruled of course, and perfect bound. Or even board bound, so we can stick it in another cover.

[Titivillus]

KCat, on Mar 30 2005, 08:26 PM, said:

In the US, a good place to look is Ross Dress-for-Less or Tuesday Mornings.

I got an incredible little journal from Tuesday Morning. IT came inside a little drawstring pouch inside a box. Looks like Italian binding with leather spine and corners & mock deckled edges. It's about an inch thick and half way through it now I regret not buying the second one I saw!

[Fulcanelli]

Denis Richard, on Apr 6 2005, 08:46 AM, said:

My Borders is having all their Moleskine products on sale 50% off. Thought it might interest you. Your local Borders might be doing the same.

No such luck! But thanks.

[KCat]

Tytyvyllus, on Apr 6 2005, 08:12 PM, said:

I got an incredible little journal from Tuesday Morning. IT came inside a little drawstring pouch inside a box. Looks like Italian binding with leather spine and corners & mock deckled edges. It's about an inch thick and half way through it now I regret not buying the second one I saw!

it amazes me what you can find there.

I found my favorite treat - Aplets & Cotlets - for $4 a box this past Christmas. They were fresh but a few had sort of melted. So they were cheap. But yummy.

Compared to $13 through the catalog....

I wish I'd found Ross sooner. I just assumed "Dress for Less" meant it was only cheap, ugly clothing. Not so!

TM isn't close but when I do get near one, they often have some great finds. I think Ian once hit the jackpot there on leather journals.

[KCat]

æon, on Apr 6 2005, 07:07 PM, said:

Hi, I just registered. I post on Rambling Snail occasionally, and browse Pentrace daily.

BTB - I've been meaning to say "Hi" to you, and it's good to see you here, aeon! Long time no read. :)