Flow problems

[Maja]

When folks say "add a drop of detergent", do they mean the kind that goes in the dishwasher or the kind that one uses to wash dishes in the sink? Also, does cleaning the converter with ammonia help, or is detergent the better remedy? I have a few pens with these kinds of problems.

Hi Charlie,

The kind of liquid soap with which you wash your hands, OR the kind for manual dishwashing...NOT the kind that goes in a dishwasher machine.

 

I'm not sure about the ammonia question; I'll let someone else tackle that...

[kissing]

RE: Dishwashing Liquid

 

If you have no choice but to resort to the dishwashwashing liquid in ink idea, please add a tiny little bit (One drop per whole bottle). You'll see instant results.

 

3 warnings about this method:

 

1. Ink may flow TOO well and converter pens may run out of ink fast. Nib creeping can occur too

 

2. Your ink might become all bubbly Not really a problem when you write, but it is annoying

 

3. By adding dishwashing liquid to the ink, you are adding unknown chemicals to your inks that go into the pen. I have yet to hear someone saying that dishwashing liquid has actually damaged their pens, but most of the experts discourage this technique due to the risks. In theory, inks should work fine just the way they are with nothing added to it....but sadly in reality, that is not always the case <_<

 

A GREAT alternative would be tryphon's INKSAFE, which is actually designed for fountain pens and is known to improve ink flow /:)

Edited September 26, 2006 by kissing

[fjf]

Well, about the bubbles, the detergent you use for the dishwashing machine DOES NOT produce foam. Try to use regular dishwashing fluid into the machine and prepare to escape the foam that will fill the room . Maybe this is worth a try.

[kissing]

Well, about the bubbles, the detergent you use for the dishwashing machine DOES NOT produce foam. Try to use regular dishwashing fluid into the machine and prepare to escape the foam that will fill the room . Maybe this is worth a try.

The stuff you put into dishwashing machines seems to be quite powerful stuff. Please do not put it into fountain pens I have a feeling that no good will come out of it.

 

Dishwashing liquid you put into machines is strong stuff (because it removes stains without the need for manual scrubbing). That stuff is not good to have contact with your skin, so it probably has pH issues (If i'm not mistaken, it's a strong base (alkaline), which is bad news for inks and pens)

[KendallJ]

I took a chance and shaved a bit off the top of my feed on one of my Bock nib units. Will let you know how it works.

Well, I think this might have worked! No signs of starved flow in both pens today, and the flow is much richer. It was a bit of a delicate procedure tho, so I'm still not sure if it would be recommended. (someone get Richard over here to comment!)

 

I took a slice about 1/8 wide and maybe 0.001" or 0.002" off of the top of the feed (right over the slit) from the base to just below where the breather hole would line up.

[kissing]

What's a "Bock nib unit"?

[Oxonian]

Hi Kissing,

 

It is the bit that unscrews from the business end of a modern Pelikan or similar that is made up of nib and feed in a threaded carrier. Well that is what it would mean to me anyway.

Cheers, John

[tjwarren]

I've actually had this happen to me three times within the last few days -- glad to know it's not just me! All three times it's been with Noodler's Black (that's all I use), once with a Rotring 600 and twice with a Sheaffer Prelude I just bought off of the Marketplace.

 

I'm not real keen on having to constantly twist the converter (I've only been using the Prelude for a day, and I've had to do it twice). Does anyone know how adding detergent to the Noodler's may affect it's permanence? I imagine it shouldn't have much of an effect, but it never hurts to ask.

 

What's the best way to add a smidge of detergent to a mostly-full converter?

[Maja]

Hi Charlie,

The kind of soap to add is the liquid soap with which you wash your hands (or the kind for washing dishes by hand), NOT the kind that goes in a dishwasig machine.

 

If I wanted to add a bit of soap to a mostly-fully convertor, I would just dip a toothpick in the soap and then dip it in the convertor.

 

I'm not sure about the ammonia question; I'll let someone else tackle that...

Edited September 26, 2006 by Maja

[HesNot]

There is another thread in the repairs section talking about Noodler's black and converters - specifically the viscosity of the ink/surface tension creating issues in converter pens.

 

I personally have this issue with a slide converter on a Parker Vector. Still searching for that perfect check writing pen to use with Noodler's Black...

[fjf]

Try a good piston, like a pelikan. Works great.

[KendallJ]

Bump... hmmm ton of people are interested, and no one seems to want to provide some insight. The nibmeisters must not want ot give up their secrets...

[fjf]

Hey, they have to make a living out of it!

[Richard]

Kendall sent me a PM -- please use email (richard@richardspens.com) in the future, as for business purposes I need to archive all my correspondence in a way that doesn't rely on someone else's server -- but now that I'm here...

First, a point of clarification: According to Shu-Jen Lin, Taccia's steel IPG nibs do not come from Bock or one of its subsidiaries. They are made by an independent manufacturer in what used to be East Germany.

I find with many modern pens, whether they have steel or gold nibs, that the manufacturers have patterned their final configuration after what they've seen on vintage pens. This means that the tine tips are touching, and in most cases that's not the way it should be. There needs to be a tiny space, something on the order of 0.0005" to 0.001" (0.013 mm to 0.025 mm). Vintage nibs have their tips touching because even hard rubber will bend with stress and age, and the downward spring of the nib gradually forces the feed down until the tine tips touch.

Simply spreading the tines solves probably 75% of this sort of flow problem. To adjust the spread, you need a couple of "feeler gauges." Visit a hobby shop that caters to model railroaders and purchase a packet of K&S brass shim stock. (People not in the U.S.A. may find this more difficult; the Web is your ticket to the hobby shop, and Google is your map. One source is Walthers, a well known model railroading supplier.) The packet costs about $5.00 and contains four sheets: 0.001", 0.002", 0.003", and 0.005". Cut 1" (25 mm) squares from the 0.001" and 0.002" sheets, and smooth the cut edges by burnishing them against a flat hard surface such as glass. I use a dead bright-polished "51" cap to do this.

You can spread the tines by very, very carefully prying the side edges of the nib apart while bracing with a finger on the top surface. Check the gap with a 10X loupe. If you went too far, squeeze the edges back together. Ideally, the 0.002" square will require force to get into the gap. The 0.001" square will be held gently by the tips. For a wetter flow, adjust so the 0.001" square just falls free but the 0.002" square still doesn't want to go in easily.

After adjusting the gap, be sure to check the aligmnent and adjust it if necessary. Here is the proper way to check alignment:

 

Edited January 2, 2015 by wimg
Insert new image location

[Bill D]

Thank you, Richard.

 

Bill

[kissing]

Wow, Richard

 

A professional's reply sure does make a huge difference

 

Thank you for your expert advice

[KendallJ]

First, a point of clarification: According to Shu-Jen Lin, Taccia's steel IPG nibs do not come from Bock or one of its subsidiaries. They are made by an independent manufacturer in what used to be East Germany.

This is interesting. I don't remember where i heard that it was Bock, maybe I just assumed.

 

This feed / collar assembly is one a whole bunch of my pens. Taccia, Think, DaniTrio.... I think even Conway's. Sometimes with a custom nib as in the case of Dani and Conway; others with the standard IPG steel nib. This assembly is what made me think it was the feed rather than the nib.

 

Does any of the behavior we're describing come from modern feeds or is it all in the nib?

 

The guides on how the nib should behave with the sheet brass is helpful. I have these sheets, and while I floss the nib slit sometimes, I've never taken to adjusting the nib width. I might try now, or better, maybe send to you!

 

As to separating the tines. Any instruments to help with that or it is all manual? I always get a little paranoid when I start applying force to the nib tines...

 

Thanks for the response. I'll email next time.

Edited September 27, 2006 by KendallJ

[Matt]

Thank you Richard, and the rest, for your insightful comments and suggestions. It's too bad that we have to fiddle with good modern pens to get the result that should come with the pen.

 

Matt C.

[KendallJ]

Oh, my gosh it works!!!

 

Like gapping spark plugs. I fiddled with my 3 bad actors today and poof! No disassembly and a 10x loupe and they work great!

 

It's almost impossible to see the difference in teh position of the tines, but you can see it with a 10x loupe, just barely.

 

Thanks Richard!!!

[KendallJ]

Just a plug for Richard. I have 3 Taccia's and a Conway that all have this nib unit (along with a Dani, and a Think). 2 of the Taccia's and the Conway were purchased or adjusted by Richard, and the worked beautifully when they arrived. Obviously, him checking them out is a plus. The other three I bought in various places and they have not had the same performance, even though the nib units are the same.