Sheaffer Snorkel Won't Fill

[pigpogm]

Well, my eBay purchase has arrived, and it seems to be in generally nice condition. It's a Saratoga (the badly corroded nib in the picture turned out to be a bad picture of a two tone nib).

 

However.

 

It doesn't take in ink (or water).

 

I've got as far as getting the main 'unit' bit out, and the snorkel tube slid out of that. Presumably, to get to the sac, I'd need to pull that rubber gasket thing out from where the snorkel tube went?

 

I'm only reluctant to go ahead with that, because then I need to start getting hold of parts, so I'd rather avoid it if it's not needed. The sac itself seems perfectly good - still nice and supple. But. If I cover the two side holes, and blow in the top hole, air comes blowing easily out of the middle of the rubber gasket (or out of the snorkel tube if it's still in there). I'm guessing that shouldn't happen?

 

Presumably, the sac should block the way and prevent that from happening, so that means the sac is split?

 

If I blow into the bottom gasket part, nothing happens - I think the sac is being inflated against the metal casing, so it's not leaking. Sucking the same way gives me a mouthful of nasty rubbery air. Covering the top hole and sucking gives a very slow bit of air, which might make sense if there's a split of some sort near the top?

 

Anyway, I guess I'm mainly after some sort of reassurance I'm working along the right lines here, before I go spending money, or prizing out parts that won't then go back in. If it sounds like a split sac, I'll have to get that rubber bung out, but I'll probably damage it in the process, and need a spare. Still, I'd probably need a spare sac anyway. If I've understood the workings wrong, and air should pass through there once the sac deflates, I don't want to go damaging any seals that don't need damaging.

 

http://static.flickr.com/66/222854175_29abf268bf.jpg

 

Saratoga in Bits

[OldGriz]

First of all... I would say at least 90% of all Snorkels purchased on eBay will need restoration of at least the two O rings and usually also the sac.

I notice the snorkel is no longer attached to the sac section... did you take it off or did it come that way... it should be secured to the section... it is not supposed to be separated. This means that it will have to be put back in place and he joint sealed so it is air tight...

I don't know what the going rate for snorkel restoration is in the UK, but I usually charge $30 to do that job... not that I expect you to send it to the US.. just to give you an idea.

The pen is not all that difficult to do, but it is a bit tricky as to the removal of the barell O ring and resetting the new one... also removal of the section from the sac protector can be a pain the first time you do one...

But once redone, you will find the snorkel to be a beautiful writing pen... I place is on the same level as a Parker 51.... You can't own just one...

[pigpogm]

Thanks for the quick reply, OldGriz - I gathered you've been a Sheaffer man for longer than a Parker one.

 

I would say at least 90% of all Snorkels purchased on eBay will need restoration of at least the two O rings and usually also the sac.

 

Yeah, I pretty much figured, but when it had a 'buy it now' for £10, and they usually go up to £35-£30, I figured I'd take a chance.

 

I notice the snorkel is no longer attached to the sac section... did you take it off or did it come that way... it should be secured to the section... it is not supposed to be separated. This means that it will have to be put back in place and he joint sealed so it is air tight...

 

I pulled, it slid out - presumably you mean the filling section, rather than it remaining in the nib section? It slides fairly easily in and out of the rubber gasket - presumably rather easier than it should do. Is Shellac the thing for securing bits like that back in the right place (if I ever get to that point)?

 

I don't know what the going rate for snorkel restoration is in the UK, but I usually charge $30 to do that job... not that I expect you to send it to the US.. just to give you an idea.

 

I think it's around £25 or so, but I'd really rather do it myself if I can. I'd love it all the more knowing I fixed it myself.

 

The pen is not all that difficult to do, but it is a bit tricky as to the removal of the barell O ring and resetting the new one... also removal of the section from the sac protector can be a pain the first time you do one...

 

I've read it being described as straightforward but difficult, and better left to the professionals. Sac protector - the metal sleeve over the sac? Which bit is the 'section' in that context? Is that the bit the rubber gasked the snorkel fits into is inside? I couldn't find any pictures of those two parts separate, which is why I was assuming the rubber gasket gets pried out, and the sac (theoretically) remains attached to the gasket. At least the sac doesn't seem to be attached to the protector, which I gather is the really unpleasant part.

 

Thanks again for the help.

[RonB]

I would recommend doing a search on the repair section for "snorkel" and you'll find many posts about how to do it. I found it difficult at first, but I finally got the hang of it. OldGriz gave me some pointers as well. I also destroyed 3 out of the first 10 I tried to do, so be forwarned. Possibly you are more handy than I am and won't have this problem. You have to have patience, which I don't always have in abundance.

 

The most difficult parts are getting the rubber section out of the sac protector (the metal tube), removing and replacing the O ring in the barrel, and then getting the old sac out of the sac protector if it has ossified. Pay attention to these issues in the old posts.

 

One recommendation on what not to do:

 

Be careful in removing the section from the sac protector. Although force is required, too much force can distort the top part of the sac protector (where the section sits) and also the sac protector itself. I ruined one sac protector because I used too much pressure on the tube, which although metal, is not very thick.

 

I pulled, it slid out - presumably you mean the filling section, rather than it remaining in the nib section?

 

Yes, the snorkel tube is what OldGriz was referring to. After you re-install everything, I believe it is recommended to put a little bit of shellac at the bottom of the tube where it fits into the section.

 

Sac protector - the metal sleeve over the sac? Which bit is the 'section' in that context? Is that the bit the rubber gasked the snorkel fits into is inside

 

Yes and yes.

 

 

Good luck!

 

Ron

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

I would be glad to repair it for you or get you a kit of the parts you need.

 

Dillon

[Chris]

I had a snorkel that needed an overhaul and Andy did it for me - I think it was £16, which was a fair price for the time involved. Existing parts were OK - maybe an o ring or two needed, I forget, and it works like a dream again. So, not an expensive job, but I have never tried any restoration work myself.

 

Chris

[pigpogm]

I had a snorkel that needed an overhaul and Andy did it for me - I think it was £16

 

Would that be Andy of Andy's Pens? That's one of my favourite drooling grounds.

 

I would be glad to repair it for you or get you a kit of the parts you need.

 

That's a very kind offer, Dillo, but the shipping probably wouldn't be worth it - I'm in the UK.

 

If I can get the parts, I'd really like to have a go at it myself. I've started buying these things, so being able to make them work, then hopefully sell them on again (at huge profits, obviously ) seems like a decent plan. I can't claim to be good at mechanical stuff, really, but there's not much that can't be fixed with a combination of Victorinox and gaffer tape (like black duct tape for the non-Brits, but cloth-backed and tears easily in one direction). OK, for pens, I've added lots of toilet paper, microfibre cloths and toothpaste.

 

Is it sad to have bought a special tube of toothpaste just for cleaning pens?

 

One bit I'm still not quite clear on here - the assembly in the picture, with the sac inside it - is that two pieces that need to come apart still? Is the metal part that wraps around the rubber gasket a separate part from the actual sac guard? If so, how do they come apart - are they screwed together, glued, or is it just a very tight push fit? I think taking those apart is what RonB was warning about, with thin metal that can be easily bent.

 

Does the sac attach onto the end of that rubber gasket, the part the snorkel tube fits through? This stuff is much harder to work out when Richard Binder's site is down Thos exploded diagrams and animation are utterly wonderful.

[RonB]

One bit I'm still not quite clear on here - the assembly in the picture, with the sac inside it - is that two pieces that need to come apart still?

 

The metal sac protector is one part. The black plastic/rubber section comes out by pushing a metal tube or rod through the bottom (opposite the thin snorkle tub) very carefully. See the old posts on here, and I think there is an article on Pentrace that gives some directions. You'll need to study up on this and not just "wing it" because it's complicated.

 

 

Does the sac attach onto the end of that rubber gasket, the part the snorkel tube fits through?

 

Yes.

[RonB]

See these posts with some of my questions and the answers I received from the kind members here:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...=snorkel+repair

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/in...=snorkel+repair

[pigpogm]

Sorry to reply to myself here (ah, who am I kidding, I'm just trying to get my little blue bar up), but I think I just found the answer - looks like it's a push fit, but very tight. Needs pulling and rocking gently? There still don't seem to be any pics of the parts apart, though.

 

-----

 

On preview, RonB has confirmed just the opposite. Sounds like perhaps it can come apart, but probably better not to. I didn't like the sound of that whole 'tiny hook' business, anyway.

 

Sounds like the trickiest part is just getting that rubber gasket out, but as long as I can get a spare, it doesn't matter what condition it's in when it comes out - as long as the section isn't damaged when getting it out.

 

Anybody know of good places for the parts in the UK? I've mailed Highlo Museum, to find out if they've got them in - is there anywhere else?

 

-----

 

On second preview, thanks again, RonB - I'll have a read through those links, and look for the stuff you mentioned on PenTrace too, before deciding how much more to try.

 

-----

 

I really appreciate everybody's help and patience here. It's never easy to explain something like this with just text, especially a newbie like me who doesn't even know what all the parts are called. I know I'm probably coming across as a bit stubborn, when I should just take the thing to someone who knows what they're doing, but it's the geeky part of me - I don't like the idea of paying someone else to fix something that I could be learning to do myself. Oddly enough, I'm not like that with anything household or car-related. Just computers and now pens. Learning how it works, and how to make it work are more important than using it. If you'd seen my handwriting, you'd understand

 

I'll try very hard not to kill it, though - I'd feel very bad if I did a

[pigpogm]

Ah, yes. Some very helpful stuff in there, thanks, RonB. And that's the diagram I'd been wanting to get to from Richard's site.

 

My points of confusion...

 

* The gasket I've been referring to is actually the section. I've been thinking this was one of the little rubber bits you replace. It probably does matter what condition it comes out in, then, but Richard's coathanger suggestion sounds good. Since the snorkel tube already slides out of there easily, it's probably going to be best for me to work with that removed, and then shellac it back into place after everything else - at least that means that wen I'm pushing bits out of tight gaps, I'm not worried about bending the snorkel tube too. I gather it needs to go back with the feed inside the tube aligned with the back of the nib, and protruding slightly past the 'nipple'.

* I hadn't realised there was another o-ring up around the touchdown tube. I suspect that one is ok, as the suction seems pretty good, just not applied to the right places due to the state of the sac.

 

I think my next steps will be to do a bit more reading yet, then probably take the snorkel tube out, try pulling the sac out through 'hole D', and pushing the section out with a coathanger. Assuming all comes out cleanly, then I'll just need to shellac a new sac onto the section, then try to reinsert it into the sac guard. Then shellac the snorkel tube into the section. I think the o-rings are going to be ok. I've already had the point holder ring out, and it was still nice and soft and supple.

 

I'll get some silicone grease too, so things can go back nicely lubricated.

 

Does this all sound reasonable?

 

Oh, one more question - I've read the suggestion of using talc (pure, unoiled, unperfumed) on the sac - is that needed in a Snorkel? I've not seen anything about it mentioned in relation to them.

[Alriel]

Oh, one more question - I've read the suggestion of using talc (pure, unoiled, unperfumed) on the sac - is that needed in a Snorkel? I've not seen anything about it mentioned in relation to them.

Yes, I would recommend using pure talc on the sac to help it separate from the walls of the metal sac protector when the sac is compressed. Little things like this help a lot in the end.

 

Oh, and the section where the sac is attached is held fairly tightly by the metal sac protector. Be sure to uncrimp the metal surrounding the section slightly and recrimp back into shape when the new sac is installed. I don't remember if I saw that in previous posts.

 

Good luck!

 

Regards,

Al

[navajo jack]

I am a newbie to this forum, but an "oldie" to pen collecting. We almost always

repaired our own pens, mostely for fun. I noticed, looking over the forum, that

the current gang of "gurus" seem to discourage repairing your own pens,

and recommend sending it to the "experts" (them). You will ruin some pens and turn them into "parts", but it really isn't that hard. Years ago, we had wonderful

people like Fr. Terry Koch, Who would provide tools and materials and clear

instructions with drawings for very reasonable cost. I wonder if anyone can tell

me whatever happened to him, is he still around??? Snorkels aren't that hard

to repair, it's the vac-fils that make me cringe!!! Try not to pay too much for

snorkels, they made millions!! and expect to replace the o ring, point gasket,

and sac. The new sacs are available in wonderful new materials now, and

o rings are available on ebay, and the supply places. Make your own tools from

metal coat hangers and the like. Hobby shops have great stuff, brass tubing in

all sizes, and stroll through Radio Shack may turn up some interesting gizmos. Good Luck! and Replies welcome

nj

[OldGriz]

Oh, and the section where the sac is attached is held fairly tightly by the metal sac protector. Be sure to uncrimp the metal surrounding the section slightly and recrimp back into shape when the new sac is installed. I don't remember if I saw that in previous posts.

NOT ALL of the sac protectors are crimped to the sections... check before you uncrimp one that does not need it...

If you try to uncrimp one that does not need it, you are going to have a devil of a time reshaping it to fit the recess it goes into.

[OldGriz]

I noticed, looking over the forum, that

the current gang of "gurus" seem to discourage repairing your own pens,

and recommend sending it to the "experts" (them). You will ruin some pens and turn them into "parts", but it really isn't that hard. Years ago, we had wonderful

people like Fr. Terry Koch, Who would provide tools and materials and clear

instructions with drawings for very reasonable cost. I wonder if anyone can tell

me whatever happened to him, is he still around???

Jack, I think you will find on this forum that the majority of the restorers will go out of their way to give directions and not say "send it to me".... Most of the better restorers already have more work than they can handle and are more than happy to share their knowledge.

Unfortunately, Fr Terry is no longer with us... the Good Lord had some pens that needed to be worked on and called Fr Terry up to get them done.

[RonB]

I noticed, looking over the forum, that the current gang of "gurus" seem to discourage repairing your own pens,

and recommend sending it to the "experts" (them).

Actually, I think most of the experts encourage others on FPN to try these repairs. It's people like me who have few skills to begin with that report back that it is harder than expected. Sure, anyone can learn to do it, but if you are not skilled with your hands or an engineer type, you may end up making some mistakes in the learning process, as I did. Knowing what I know now, and if I only wanted one or two snorkels, I would definitely send them away to be repaired.

 

Ron

[london]

PigPog (!?)

 

Have you bought yourself a copy of The late, great Mr Dubriel's 'Da Book'?

 

- Mark

[pigpogm]

Time for an update...

 

NOT ALL of the sac protectors are crimped to the sections... check before you uncrimp one that does not need it...

 

I think, in my case, Alriel is right. The bit that wraps around the section has four raised parts (one wider than the others, so it's 'keyed' to only connect back in the right way around relative to the nib), and the ends of these raised parts are crimped down. Assuming the section itself also has four raised parts, these crimps are holding the section in place.

 

It's a bit tricky to see in the picture, but you can just about tell on the ones at the top and bottom of the picture...

 

http://static.flickr.com/90/223598190_0b99333730.jpg

 

Close up on section in sac guard.

 

Also, I got a reply from Peter at High-Lo. He has stock of the parts kits, and can also do the repair for a very reasonable price. I'm a little torn on it - I want to learn to do the repair, but by time I buy all the bits, it's going to cost almost as much as getting it fixed professionally. But, paying someone else to do it doesn't really help me to learn. And if I buy the parts kit, I should have spare bits left for doing the next two Snorkels I fail to resist on eBay

 

I also popped into the most huge DIY shop (hardware store for you Americans, a big B&Q for any Brits), and got some very blank looks when I asked for Shellac. Nobody there had ever heard of the stuff, and the computer had no record of any such thing existing. I think Peter sells it, though.

 

As for the sac, I gave a little pull on the end, where it was sticking out through the hole at the end of the sac guard, and the end of the sac came off in a perfect circle. Looks as if it's weakened and split where it was left pushed slightly out through that hole.

 

http://static.flickr.com/93/223598191_8aa19c5e60_m.jpg

 

Sac end pulled off.

 

-----

 

On preview - I haven't yet, Mark. I've heard plenty of people rave about it, but our Amazon doesn't seem to have ever heard of him. I guess it will have to be ordered from the US.

[london]

For Da Book in the UK, ask Ian Williamson (www.cathedralpens.co.uk) he normally has a few copies. Its not a hardback, so you won't see it in stores - just about 100 photocopied pages, comb-bound.

 

- Mark

[OldGriz]

Time for an update...

 

NOT ALL of the sac protectors are crimped to the sections... check before you uncrimp one that does not need it...

 

I think, in my case, Alriel is right. The bit that wraps around the section has four raised parts (one wider than the others, so it's 'keyed' to only connect back in the right way around relative to the nib), and the ends of these raised parts are crimped down. Assuming the section itself also has four raised parts, these crimps are holding the section in place.

 

It's a bit tricky to see in the picture, but you can just about tell on the ones at the top and bottom of the picture...

 

http://static.flickr.com/90/223598190_0b99333730.jpg

 

Close up on section in sac guard.

 

Also, I got a reply from Peter at High-Lo. He has stock of the parts kits, and can also do the repair for a very reasonable price. I'm a little torn on it - I want to learn to do the repair, but by time I buy all the bits, it's going to cost almost as much as getting it fixed professionally. But, paying someone else to do it doesn't really help me to learn. And if I buy the parts kit, I should have spare bits left for doing the next two Snorkels I fail to resist on eBay

 

I also popped into the most huge DIY shop (hardware store for you Americans, a big B&Q for any Brits), and got some very blank looks when I asked for Shellac. Nobody there had ever heard of the stuff, and the computer had no record of any such thing existing. I think Peter sells it, though.

 

As for the sac, I gave a little pull on the end, where it was sticking out through the hole at the end of the sac guard, and the end of the sac came off in a perfect circle. Looks as if it's weakened and split where it was left pushed slightly out through that hole.

 

http://static.flickr.com/93/223598191_8aa19c5e60_m.jpg

 

Sac end pulled off.

 

-----

 

On preview - I haven't yet, Mark. I've heard plenty of people rave about it, but our Amazon doesn't seem to have ever heard of him. I guess it will have to be ordered from the US.

The picture you show is an UNCRIMPED sac protector..

ALL the sac protectors are shaped like the one you show with raised and recessed flats...

The crimping referred to is crimping over the top to hold the section in place.. yours does not have that... so you will be able to push the section out of the sac protector from the rear hole using a piece of wire coathanger (or similar material).. just make sure that you push at the edges of the section and rotate the sac protector to push at multiple points so the section comes out evenly.