[grandmasager]

Hey there everybody... I'm on a road trip with my 86-year-old grandmother and I have found out that her father was S.M. Sager... inventor as I'm told of such items as the Sager Graphomatic pen. Grandma Estelle says that her father was tinkering with writing istruments in the early 1920's because... cue grandma:

"Fountain pens filled with a lever that pressed down on a rubber sac, called the 'greishaber' pen, and over time the sacs that held the ink would rot and the pens would leak on the person's clothing. This was undesireable obviously, so my dad was trying to figure out a better way to fill a fountain pen. The Greishaber was an early fountain pen."

"The barrel of the (Graphomatic) pen was made of Lucite, after dupont invented lucite. And that eliminated the rubber sac that rotted all the time. The Graphomatic and Vacuumatic pens never leaked."

Sounds like there is some interesting innovation around using iridium instead of gold for some aspect of the pens also.

Anyhow... i did some googling for 'Sager Graphomatic' and found this forum. Thought maybe you all might find it interesting. :)

Cheers!

[philm]

Your great grandfather (Solomon Sager) called this the sackless pen. Many were produced and some have survived. They are sought after by collectors. I wish I had one. I do have a wonderful 14K Sager Sackless Transpero nib on a modern Cali pen. From what I remember when researching that nib, Sager was in Chicago in the 30s and there was a relationship between Sager and the Greishaber Pen Company (which you mention). Perhaps others will chime in with much more concrete research.

Thank you very much for sharing this story. The story of the sac and lever filler problems and his solution is a neat glimpse into your family history, and to the Sager Pen.

Phil

[antoniosz]

Thank you for stopping by.

You grandfather had many patents:
See http://www.google.co...=&sa=N&start=10

There was a Graphomatic Corporation in Chicago which was selling his pens. Others with more info will chime if for sure. Maybe some people here could post examples of his pens.
I would be cool to own one of these pens :)

[grandmasager]

i'm reading this now with grandma and she is tickled :) thanks!

[Enai]

I looked up Sager pens after I read the original post, and Richard Binder has an entry in his glossary with photos of a sample pen and filling system (scroll down to Sager):

http://www.richardsp.../glossary/S.htm

Besides being ingeniously designed, it looks like a pretty pen.

[grandmasager]

hey Phil, just looking at your restoration blog. Specifically, the 'Parker Vacuumatic Pen' ... grandma is saying:

'this is a patent that my father sold to the Parker Pen Company to help me go to college.'

Also, grandma again:

'I have some marble desk sets, one is a big green marble and one is black, but there's a marble ball into which a pen fits in. The mechanism is the same as the Vacuumatic and Graphomatic pens, but it doesn't have a cover on it; it has a long extension to make it look like a very graceful writing instrument."

"The green marble is so heavy you can hardly lift the fool thing. It really is a beautiful piece of work. It was one of the things that I uncovered when I uncovered a pair of boxes that hadn't been opened for 70 years.'

Anyhow... I will endeavor to post pics of these items when we get back from our road trip.

Cheers!

[gross]

Enai, on 29 September 2009 - 11:31 PM, said:

I looked up Sager pens after I read the original post, and Richard Binder has an entry in his glossary with photos of a sample pen and filling system (scroll down to Sager):

http://www.richardsp.../glossary/S.htm

Besides being ingeniously designed, it looks like a pretty pen.

Thanks, Enai, for the link to Richard's site. It is a pretty pen and most ingenious filling system. I have a Travelers and a Waltham with the same or similar filling system. Neither of these pens is even remotely as attractive as the Sager pen pictured on Richard's site. I should very much like to find a Sager pen.

Grandmasager, Thank you for your informative post. I look forward to the pictures.

[Vintagepens]

I'm just taking a quick late lunch break, so time for just one side note:

Not a lot of people are aware of it, but Dupont used the trade name "Lucite" for two different plastics. The second, for acrylic, is the better known; it is the earlier application, however, which is relevant to Sager pen production. Offhand, I don't think the original "Lucite" was celluloid -- rather, some other cellulosic plastic, whether cellulose acetate or something else (sorry, this is a rush post!).

[Richard]

grandmasager, on 30 September 2009 - 12:38 AM, said:

hey Phil, just looking at your restoration blog. Specifically, the 'Parker Vacuumatic Pen' ... grandma is saying:

'this is a patent that my father sold to the Parker Pen Company to help me go to college.'

I'm a little doubtful about this one. The patent for the Vacumatic filling system (U.S. Patent Nº 1,904,358) was issued on April 18, 1933, to Professor Arthur O. Dahlberg, an instructor in machine design at the University of Wisconsin. I have myself contacted the University and verified this information.

[Hugh200au]

Richard, on 02 October 2009 - 08:20 AM, said:

grandmasager, on 30 September 2009 - 12:38 AM, said:

hey Phil, just looking at your restoration blog. Specifically, the 'Parker Vacuumatic Pen' ... grandma is saying:

'this is a patent that my father sold to the Parker Pen Company to help me go to college.'

I'm a little doubtful about this one. The patent for the Vacumatic filling system (U.S. Patent Nº 1,904,358) was issued on April 18, 1933, to Professor Arthur O. Dahlberg, an instructor in machine design at the University of Wisconsin. I have myself contacted the University and verified this information.

Probably refers to this filler , definitly a similiar type of design but in 1937.

Regards
Hugh

[Richard]

Hugh200au, on 01 October 2009 - 07:53 PM, said:

Probably refers to this filler , definitly a similiar type of design but in 1937.

That may be the reference, but it was Dahlberg's design that was the foundation for the Vacumatic -- Parker bought the rights to it and spent several years perfecting it before they test-marketed it in the Golden Arrow (1932, at which time Dahlberg officially applied for the patent, probably for protection from reverse engineering). If they also bought the Sager patent, they must have done so to protect themselves from competition; they never produced and marketed pens using it.

[Hugh200au]

Richard, on 02 October 2009 - 12:19 PM, said:

Hugh200au, on 01 October 2009 - 07:53 PM, said:

Probably refers to this filler , definitly a similiar type of design but in 1937.

That may be the reference, but it was Dahlberg's design that was the foundation for the Vacumatic -- Parker bought the rights to it and spent several years perfecting it before they test-marketed it in the Golden Arrow (1932, at which time Dahlberg officially applied for the patent, probably for protection from reverse engineering). If they also bought the Sager patent, they must have done so to protect themselves from competition; they never produced and marketed pens using it.

If we assume "Grandma's" memory of the events are correct then the possability you raised is a definite probabilty. On paper the Sager design looks a reasonable one with definite "vac" similarities, clearly designed with the idea of offering a similiar product to the vac. I'm inclined to put Grandma's memory and product protection together......bingo.....history created !!!....now to prove it....

Regards
Hugh

[penpalace]

Wow! Glad to have come across this thread. I have read through the thread with great interest, and over my years of collecting have been able to add a few nice Grieshabers and Sager pens to my collection.

Grand Masager, if you are still following the thread if you could ask your grandmother when Sager and Grieshaber joined together. There is not much known, we do know that Sager made some pens for Grieshaber (being the "Transparo" pens), and we often find Grieshabers or Sagers with nibs from the other. As to the desk set your Grandmother mentioned with the large marble ball I am looking to my right as we speak and I have an ad framed on the wall with the Grieshaber "Transparo" pens and one of the desk sets is the exact one you describe! I've been looking for one for a while but with no success, they are NOT common.

Look forward to your reply,
Pearce.

[Dave Johannsen]

grandmasager, on 29 September 2009 - 11:29 PM, said:

Anyhow... i did some googling for 'Sager Graphomatic' and found this forum. Thought maybe you all might find it interesting. :)

Here's a link to a 1942 ad for the Graph-O-Matic: http://books.google....r%20pen&f=false

It would seem that the pen was at least distributed by Grieshaber.


Dave

[Dave Johannsen]

Dave Johannsen, on 21 October 2009 - 04:06 PM, said:

grandmasager, on 29 September 2009 - 11:29 PM, said:

Anyhow... i did some googling for 'Sager Graphomatic' and found this forum. Thought maybe you all might find it interesting. :)

Here's a link to a 1942 ad for the Graph-O-Matic: http://books.google....r%20pen&f=false

It would seem that the pen was at least distributed by Grieshaber.


Dave

Here's an ad with a direct link to Sager: http://books.google....tery%22&f=false

Is this the same pen as the Graph-O-Matic?