How to identify celluloid?

[Idiopathos]

OK, I know the 'smells like camphor' test. But how else can you identify celluloid?

 

I ask because I have at least one pen that isn't supposed to be celluloid, but smells strongly of camphor.

[Richard]

If it smells of camphor, it's celluloid.

 

Another way to tell is to dot a drop of acetone on an interior surface where it won't be seen, wait a few seconds, and then see whether the acetone softened the surface. If so, it's celluloid.

[Idiopathos]

If it smells of camphor, it's celluloid.

 

Another way to tell is to dot a drop of acetone on an interior surface where it won't be seen, wait a few seconds, and then see whether the acetone softened the surface. If so, it's celluloid.

Thank you very much, Richard.

 

Definitive as the second test is, I think I'll stick to the first.

[bgray]

When you want to differentiate celluloid, what are you differentiating this from?

 

Acrylic acetate?

 

Won't acetone melt acrylic acetate also?

 

Good topic, by the way.

 

 

 

[Richard]

Acrylic acetate?

I suspect you're thinking of methyl methacrylate, aka acrylic, i.e., Lucite® or Plexiglas®.

 

Won't acetone melt acrylic acetate also?

Yes, but the reaction with celluloid is dramatically faster and more violent than that with acrylic.

[bgray]

Acrylic acetate?

I suspect you're thinking of methyl methacrylate, aka acrylic, i.e., Lucite® or Plexiglas®.

 

Won't acetone melt acrylic acetate also?

Yes, but the reaction with celluloid is dramatically faster and more violent than that with acrylic.

 

Thanks, Richard.

[david i]

OK, I know the 'smells like camphor' test. But how else can you identify celluloid?

 

I ask because I have at least one pen that isn't supposed to be celluloid, but smells strongly of camphor.

 

 

You could hold it over direct flame. It tends to light up faster than most other plastics used in pen making.

 

Of course, pen might need a wee bit o' repair, afterwards.

 

david

 

[wdyasq]

You could hold it over direct flame. It tends to light up faster than most other plastics used in pen making.

 

Of course, pen might need a wee bit o' repair, afterwards.

 

david

If you got it into a pressure chamber the Celluloid should burn at an accelerated rate too. IIRC, it will also supply its' own oxygen. It is advisable to say good-bye to any loved ones and have burial and health insurance paid up before igniting celluloid in a closed space. The remains will probably be collected by a division of the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) to be held s evidence if you do happen to survive.

 

Ron

[Tweel]

When you want to differentiate celluloid, what are you differentiating this from?

 

Acrylic acetate?

 

I suspect you're thinking of methyl methacrylate, aka acrylic, i.e., Lucite® or Plexiglas®.

I thought he might be thinking of cellulose acetate, rather than cellulose nitrate..?

 

-- Brian

[Johnny Appleseed]

You could hold it over direct flame. It tends to light up faster than most other plastics used in pen making.

 

Of course, pen might need a wee bit o' repair, afterwards.

 

david

 

There was a wonderful thread here a few years back that went something like this:

 

Q: "How can I tell if my pen is celluloid acetate vs. celluloid nitrate"

 

A: "Celluloid nitrate is highly flamible and burns rapidly and brightly. Celluloid acetate burns much less violently"

 

Q: "Uhm, thanks, but I want to know what the pen is made out of, not what it was."

 

A: "just trying to help "

 

Have to see if I can find that one. . .

 

John

 

 

[Kimo]

Handle and study lots and lots and lots of pens - ones made from cellulose nitrate, cellulose acetate, and other plastics. After a while you get a feel for which is which.

 

Until you get to this point - if it is a relatively new pen look at the price. Look up the specs on the manufacturer's website. Real celluloid (cellulose nitrate) will be advertised prominently since it will be a major selling point. If there is any double talk or confusing description or alternative name other than celluloid or if the information is not there, it is not going to be real celluloid. You can also get a sense by looking at the price. Look at how much new pens made from real celluloid cost - if the price of a new pen is a "bargain" compared to those, then in 9 times out of 10 it will not be real celluloid.

 

On older pens from the 1930s or 1940s, if it is colorful it is likely going to be real celluloid. Plain black or red pens and such are more likely going to be non-celluloid materials such a bakelite or hard rubber.

 

Or you could just ask the nice folks here. Tell us the brand and model in question and ask.

[scholiast]

This is a most informative discussion. My Visconti Opera Club is advertised as being made out of cellucrid -- how in the world is this different from celluloid?

[Rufus]

Also, the Aurora Optima in Auroloide: is this considered a "real" celluloid pen?

[daveg]

This is a most informative discussion. My Visconti Opera Club is advertised as being made out of cellucrid -- how in the world is this different from celluloid?

 

Are you sure? I googled cellucrid and nothing came up. Not even a single match from a Visconti or dealer page.

[KClaw]

I like David's field test. If it lights up quickly and burns violently, it is most likely Celluloid.

When the test is completed, please contact me re: nibs, barrel rings and pocket clips that you may have for sale as spare parts.

[Djehuty]

As I understand it, bad things happen to celluloid pens if you immerse them in water. I've been wondering for a while, what about pens which contain some celluloid, but are not entirely constructed of the stuff? My Pelikan has celluloid strips sandwiched in acrylic. Is there any chance of water infiltration damaging this celluloid? I read a suggestion that I should put the pen nib-down in a glass of water to help draw out all the ink when flushing it, to reduce the number of times I have to work the plunger, and now I wonder whether that might be a bad idea.

 

I think bad things would also happen to my Pelikan if I set it on fire, so I think I'll pass on seeing how brightly and in how many colors different parts of it burn.

 

[Kimo]

Also, the Aurora Optima in Auroloide: is this considered a "real" celluloid pen?

 

Aurolide is cellulose acetate. It is a modern version of celluloid. Traditional celluoid is cellulose nitrate. Cellulose acetate is more stable than cellulose nitrate and it is much less costly. For example, my $70 Retro Double Eight faceted fountain pen is made of cellulose acetate. It is very pretty and comes very close to the look and feel of traditional celluloid, but it is not what most people would call "real" celluloid.

[Kimo]

This is a most informative discussion. My Visconti Opera Club is advertised as being made out of cellucrid -- how in the world is this different from celluloid?

 

I've never heard of cellucrid. The Visconti company's website at Visconti corporation website gives the technical details of their pens. They say their Opera Club models are made from "Acryloid". I am not entirely sure what goes into this, but it is not celluloid. They make a number of real celluloid models and they say celluloid in the technical descriptions of those models. My guess from the root of the word "acryloid" is that it is a kind of acrylic resin made to resemble celluoid.

 

[wimg]

This is a most informative discussion. My Visconti Opera Club is advertised as being made out of cellucrid -- how in the world is this different from celluloid?

"Cellucrid" is a plastic or acetate which looks like celluloid, but obviously isn't. It has been used for a few pens here and there, but never extensively, so maybe it is just a name rather than a real material.

 

Warm regards, Wim

 

 

[wimg]

Aurolide is cellulose acetate. It is a modern version of celluloid. Traditional celluoid is cellulose nitrate. Cellulose acetate is more stable than cellulose nitrate and it is much less costly. For example, my $70 Retro Double Eight faceted fountain pen is made of cellulose acetate. It is very pretty and comes very close to the look and feel of traditional celluloid, but it is not what most people would call "real" celluloid.

The film industry uses cellulose acetate as if it is celluloid, and actually calls it celluloid, too. Although they are not exactly the same chemically, they both smell of camphor, and both have very similar properties. The only way to tell them apart, AFAIK, is by chemical analysis, but I may be corrected on this.

 

Warm regards, Wim