Shorthand Pens or Nibs?

[thepenladyuk]

Hi there

 

I have a renewed interest in taking up my shorthand skills again and I remember at college (some 30 years ago!) that we were encouraged to purchase and use a special shorthand pen. I remember it having a very fine, but flexible nib which was particularly important for the "thicks" and "thins" of the strokes. I was horrified to find on a shorthand website that the pens they recommend today are gel pens!....how they are able to distinguish between these strokes is not clear to me!

 

Does anyone still have a shorthand pen - was it Osmiroid or Platignum that made them? - or know of a pen manufacturer that has a shorthand nib?....I think I saw a post saying Pelikan make one, but just wondered what anyone else has used/or maybe still uses today?

 

Also, at the other end of the spectrum - is there any software for the PDA that can be used to practise/recognise shorthand characters? (a bit like the Palm Graffiti I suppose?) - would be interested in that aspect too!

 

Many thanks for any help!

[limesally]

Does anyone still have a shorthand pen - was it Osmiroid or Platignum that made them? - or know of a pen manufacturer that has a shorthand nib?....I think I saw a post saying Pelikan make one, but just wondered what anyone else has used/or maybe still uses today?

 

Pelikan makes a pen called the steno, which has an extra fine nib with a bit of springiness to it, so it is capable of a bit of line variation. But I'm not really sure how well it works for shorthand - I just quickly googled some styles and it looks as though the thicker lines occur in all kinds of directions - it seems to me you'd have to be rotating the pen in your hand a lot to get it to do what you want, so wouldn't that defeat the purpose of shorthand?

 

It's a nice little pen, and quite inexpensive, but I don't think it's easy to find anymore.

 

[thepenladyuk]

Well, I distinctly remember the shorthand fountain pen I used when I was at college - and then at work - to be a normal, fine point nib, but very flexible and it wrote thicks and thins in all directions very well!

 

Perhaps someone still has one lurking - if so, I'd be very interested in acquiring one!!

 

Many thanks for your response(s).

[Tom Pike]

This may not be of much help, but might at least keep you from straying down the wrong path.

 

A couple of US pen manufacturers produced shorthand pens in conjunction with the folks that marketed the Gregg method. All of those I've handled have had firm nibs. You might avoid them, as they're probably not what you're looking for.

 

Sheaffer and Wahl both produced Gregg pens. Wahl marked theirs with an enameled emblem on the top of the cap; Sheaffer used the Gregg symbol for the word shorthand embossed on the barrel. I think the Sheaffer pens were made mostly in the 1940's and 50's. With the exception of the special mark, these shorthand pens were undistinguishable from the "regular" models.

 

It's interesting to me that shorthand pens in the UK were flexible, while those in the US were firm. I'd like to know more about this...

 

Good luck on your quest!

 

 

Cheers,

Tom

Edited December 21, 2007 by Tom Pike

[Ashland]

Pendemonium (no affiliation) shows an Esterbrook shorthand nib, the 1555.

 

http://www.pendemonium.com/pens_esterbrook.htm

 

Regards,

Ashland

 

[Univer]

Hi,

 

Just a quick note by way of amplification. Sheaffer also made an earlier Gregg pen that bore the enameled emblem on top of the cap. These are slim flattop pens (I've seen them only in black); if I remember correctly, the clip is reminiscent of a WASP design. I've always assumed that this was a late flattop: 1930s rather than 1920s. There is no Sheaffer barrel imprint (at least on the examples I've seen), and the nib is engraved "Gregg." That nib is definitely a firm fine.

 

There has also been some discussion here, now and then, about the "Steno" nib available on later Sheaffers. I thought one thread had to do with the PFM Steno nib, but I can't seem to locate it. I seem to recall that that nib was described in a manner that called to mind a so-called "kugel" nib: a firm ball-pointed nib designed for smooth and reliable writing in any direction.

 

As to flexibility: there's some evidence to suggest that nib flexibility was, at one point, a desirable quality for U.S. stenographers as well. I've got a 1928 Waterman print ad that describes the Pink flexible-fine nib as being "loved by stenographers." Interesting.

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

This may not be of much help, but might at least keep you from straying down the wrong path.

 

A couple of US pen manufacturers produced shorthand pens in conjunction with the folks that marketed the Gregg method. All of those I've handled have had firm nibs. You might avoid them, as they're probably not what you're looking for.

 

Sheaffer and Wahl both produced Gregg pens. Wahl marked theirs with an enameled emblem on the top of the cap; Sheaffer used the Gregg symbol for the word shorthand embossed on the barrel. I think the Sheaffer pens were made mostly in the 1940's and 50's. With the exception of the special mark, these shorthand pens were undistinguishable from the "regular" models.

 

It's interesting to me that shorthand pens in the UK were flexible, while those in the US were firm. I'd like to know more about this...

 

Good luck on your quest!

 

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

[psfred]

I have several Shaeffer Snorkels with Gregg nibs. and all of them show much more flex than I was expecting. they are not all the same, though, some are quite flexible and others aren't, but they all show more flex than any other Snorkel nib I have.

 

Quite a nice little surprise for me. With a light hand, they are perfect for me (my next favorite nib is an Esterbrook x550).

 

I don't know how common they are, but of the dozen or so Snorkels I've aquired, three are Gregg nib.

 

Peter

[juhtolv]

Pelikan makes a pen called the steno, which has an extra fine nib with a bit of springiness to it, so it is capable of a bit of line variation.

 

It's a nice little pen, and quite inexpensive, but I don't think it's easy to find anymore.

 

It is seen in website of Pelikan. I saw it once in Swisherpens but it is not right now available. I remember that website said that Chartpak do not import it to the USA. But I think you can buy it from missing-pen.de, although it is not mentioned in their website.

 

[Richard]

Most of us in the U.S.A. equate "shorthand" with Gregg, because Gregg is by far the most common system in this country. Gregg shorthand requires a very firm fine nib; the system does not make use of line variation.

 

In Europe, however, the most common shorthand system is the Pitman system -- which is about 50 years older than Gregg and was invented by an Englishman. Pitman shorthand uses a flexible extra-fine nib to produce thick and thin strokes, but not varying strokes such as you find in calligraphy. Esterbrook's 2128 and 9128 can be used for Pitman, but they're not flexible enough to do it very well. You need a more flexible nib, and you can use any vintage pen with an appropriate nib or a modern pen with a flexed-up nib. I have a client in England who writes Pitman with one of my Pelikan M250 nibs, with full flex added and reground to extra fine. This client tells me that that nib is excellent for the purpose.

Edited December 23, 2007 by Richard

[RLTodd]

That was my first thought as Gregg and Pitman had different requirements. I use the past tense because it was my understanding that shorhand is now dead.

[Ghost Plane]

I think James at Pear Tree Pens has a calligraphy set with a "shorthand" nib on sale today only as part of his Sumgai Sale. $9.75 if it'll do what you need. Linky is here.

[Garageboy]

What IS short hand and how is the nib different?

[Pamalisonknits]

Hi, Garageboy,

 

Shorthand is an all-inclusive term to cover different types of 'speed' writing. Using ordinary handwriting, it's very difficult to write down word for word what is being spoken - we speak much quicker than we can write. So systems were invented using symbols instead of the usual alphabets which allowed those trained to use them to write at much closer to normal talking speeds. Once the notes have been taken they are then transcribed - that is, written out neatly in 'longhand' (ordinary handwriting) or typed up. There's evidence to show various versions have been used throughout history, but it really came to prominence in the nineteenth century and was very popular up to the 1970s when the more widespread use of dictating machines meant that there was no longer such a need to have specially trained people to take down the dictation. Being a shorthand secretary was considered to be quite an achievement and having a secretary to whom you could dictate stuff was seen as a symbol of having 'arrived' as a boss. I learned to do shorthand in the mid-1990s but until starting my current job early this year, I'd hardly used it at all. Now I use it on a daily basis and I really enjoy it. Although having the boss dictate onto a machine and his secretary then plug herself in to transcribe it is undoubtedly quicker (and using voice recognition software quicker still, although probably less accurate), taking dictation directly onto paper is a much more collaborative experience and allows you to ask questions as you go along which helps you to produce the written work right first time. As I've said, there's lots of different forms of shorthand - you'll have seen Gregg and Pitman mentioned - some based quite closely on ordinary alphabets and some relying very heavily on symbols to represent various sounds making up the words. In general, the more symbols the longer it takes to learn but the higher the speed you can achieve. The method I learned was Pitman's Teeline which is an alphabet-based system and I passed my exam at 60 words per minute, which compares favourably to the 20-23 words per minute which I believe is the average 'longhand' writing speed. Speeds up to 120 words per minute were easily attainable using some of the more complicated versions of shorthand and much higher speeds were achieved by dedicated users.

 

Unfortunately, as to your question about what would be different about a shorthand nib, I can offer no explanation. I was taught that you used a pencil to take dictation! The form of shorthand I learned has no 'thick and thin lines' element, but I can remember working with secretaries who had used those types of shorthand systems and they all used pencils which could quickly give a thick line (press harder) or a thin line (press more softly). I actually now do use a fountain pen to take dictation, mainly because my eyesight isn't great and it's easier to read than when I use a pencil. I use an ordinary nib but once again that's because I don't need the thick and thin lines thing.

 

Hope this explains a bit of the background.

 

Pam

[thepenladyuk]

Hi Pam!

 

Well, yes, it does seem to have disappeared and it's funny, but when I learnt Pitman (New Era - or, Classic, as it was referred to then...) in the 1970s, it was considered, as you say, to be the best thing to have in order to get a very good secretarial job. I have to say that I didn't really like it much then and avoided any jobs which asked for shorthand as it happens!!!!

 

But, now, being older and looking for things to do, I have a renewed interest in taking it up again for my own purposes. I'm really surprised that there isn't an easily available "shorthand pen" - so I've now got the added bonus of having to seek out a flexible nib fountain pen that will do the job!! See, we can mix our hobbies very nicely can't we!!??!! :clap1:

 

My only problem will be trying the nibs out as it's obvious you can't just walk into a store and pick one up!!?.....

 

Anyway, an excellent account of the "art form" - well done Pam!

 

Chris.

[Oxonian]

Hi Chris,

 

On the subject of specialist Shorthand pens there are still quite a few around including one that was made by Waterman UK for Pitman and called the Pitman College,( I have one of these if you would like to try it drop me a PM) as well as this custom made pen Waterman also produced shorthand nibs for a range of pens and produced a pen that was labelled Shorthand on the barrel and carried I think a white finial on the cap instead of the more usual gold end, or red on the account pen.

Conway Stewart made a specialist Shorthand pen based on one of the mid range pens again imprinted Shorthand on the barrel and an anodised green cap finial to distinguish it from the others.

 

In Germany Merz & Krell produced a specialist Shorthand piston filler under the Senator brand, these are very good little pens with excellent nibs, some are 14ct others steel plated but all are fine and moderately flexible, great for Shorthand no doubt but as Richard says not terribly good for calligraphy.

 

Cheers, John

 

 

[TrevorML]

Earlier in the year I picked up a vintage Pelikan 140 green striped with an "ST" nib that I discovered after enquiring here on FPN that the "ST" referred to Stenographic... it is a lovely fine nib with more then usual flex for the vintage Pelikan that already has some flex... VERY nice to write with indeed... don't know about shorthand though... I have enough trouble with ordinary English

[WillAdams]

While shorthand may be dying out, it's still a potentially invaluable skill --- when I worked at a computer store /copier sales shop, the owner was shocked when dealing w/ administrators at the local college would have phone conversations read back to him verbatim when he tried to wriggle out of things which he'd previously agreed to --- almost all of the older female adminstrators at the college had worked their way up from the secretarial pool and all of them were proficient in shorthand and used it by habit to take notes.

 

William

 

[pb2]

 

I recently acquired a nice black Gregg with the beautiful Gregg emblem in red, white and blue. It sports a nifty F/EF gold Gregg nib and writes well. I'd like to know what it's ball park value might be. Any clues?

 

At this time in the FP journey I like laying down wide smooth wet lines with italics or BB stubs. Hence, the Gregg is presently hibernating. Wake-up calls welcome.

 

pb2

 

 

 

 

 

 

This may not be of much help, but might at least keep you from straying down the wrong path.

 

A couple of US pen manufacturers produced shorthand pens in conjunction with the folks that marketed the Gregg method. All of those I've handled have had firm nibs. You might avoid them, as they're probably not what you're looking for.

 

Sheaffer and Wahl both produced Gregg pens. Wahl marked theirs with an enameled emblem on the top of the cap; Sheaffer used the Gregg symbol for the word shorthand embossed on the barrel. I think the Sheaffer pens were made mostly in the 1940's and 50's. With the exception of the special mark, these shorthand pens were undistinguishable from the "regular" models.

 

It's interesting to me that shorthand pens in the UK were flexible, while those in the US were firm. I'd like to know more about this...

 

Good luck on your quest!

 

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

[thepenladyuk]

I got one! Yes, I've acquired a Shorthand pen - AND it was the one I used when I was at college! (well, not the ACTUAL one, but the same make!).

 

What is it? A "Senator Shorthand Pen Mark Two"- black - twist fill and I purchased it on Ebay - would you believe, posted to my door, all of £1.79! It is in perfect condition and writes beautifully! It's now got me thinking that I might look out for a few more of these, so if you know of any lurking around, let me know!!

 

A more uncanny thing - it came in its original box with the Paper on filling instructions and guarantee - the date of purchase?! - 19th Jan 1973! - happy birthday today!!!!

 

[wdyasq]

I got one! Yes, I've acquired a Shorthand pen - AND it was the one I used when I was at college! (well, not the ACTUAL one, but the same make!).

 

What is it? A "Senator Shorthand Pen Mark Two"- black - twist fill and I purchased it on Ebay - would you believe, posted to my door, all of £1.79! It is in perfect condition and writes beautifully! It's now got me thinking that I might look out for a few more of these, so if you know of any lurking around, let me know!!

 

A more uncanny thing - it came in its original box with the Paper on filling instructions and guarantee - the date of purchase?! - 19th Jan 1973! - happy birthday today!!!!

Congratulations ...

 

I have always admired those who took good shorthand. The last 'court stenographer' I know that can take shorthand is 'older', to say the least. I did meet an older woman who still took shorthand notes for church meetings and transcribed them with a typewriter. She was 'blown away' when I showed her (With gift of computer) how the work she did could be eased with minimal computer skills.

 

The computer I gave her runs on Linux and she uses OpenOffice. I got a call last week asking if I would 'fix' her new (gift computer with another OS) so is will 'run like the one you gave me'. I will put a new HS in with Linux installed.

 

Ron