Jump to content


Photo

Is there really a "Gregg Pen?"


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 ChristineR

ChristineR

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 04 June 2007 - 18:55

A Gregg nib is a nib designed for Gregg shorthand, naturally. But I've heard that Esterbrook actually sold "Gregg pens" as if they were a different beast. The ones have have seen look like J series to me.

#2 BillTheEditor

BillTheEditor

    “Qui m'aime aime mon chien.” Pretty much says it all.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,547 posts

Posted 04 June 2007 - 19:23

From Richard Binder's Web site (www.richardspens.com): "The Gregg company licensed pen manufacturers to produce pens to Gregg’s specifications and use the Gregg name; these pens are relatively thin and have very firm fine nibs. Some Gregg pens were fitted with an enameled Gregg emblem inlaid into the end of the cap ..."

I believe that Sheaffer, as well as Esterbrook and Wahl, produced such pens under license (see David Nishimura's article at http://www.vintagepe..._discovery.htm). So yes, there are Gregg pens, but they were not manufactured by the Gregg company.

Edited by BillTheEditor, 04 June 2007 - 19:36.


#3 gregamckinney

gregamckinney

    he's just this guy, you know?

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,294 posts
  • Location:Kirkland, WA (but my home will always be San Jose, CA)

Posted 04 June 2007 - 19:58

Sheaffer, Wahl and Waterman produced the 'licensed' Gregg pens. Each have the Gregg emblem on the cap top. IIRC, the Wahl and Sheaffer pens have Gregg imprinted nibs, while the Waterman version has a (modified 92) clip with the Gregg imprint.

I have never seen an equivalent version on an Esterbrook. However, I believe there are Estrbrook models with a subtle 'shorthand' symbol on the barrel. Sheaffers with this same marking are seen. This is the closest to an Esterbrook 'Gregg' pen I have heard of.

Best regards, greg

#4 ChristineR

ChristineR

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 04 June 2007 - 20:59

Ebay auction

I see a lot of Esterbrook's with 1555 nibs being sold as "Gregg Fountain Pens" and I'm trying to figure out what they really are. I think I need to leave Ebay to the real experts!

#5 markc

markc

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 925 posts
  • Location:San Francisco
  • Flag:

Posted 04 June 2007 - 21:36

Chances are, the seller doesn't know much about pens. They simply looked at the nib which says "Gregg" on it.

I've got one.. One of my favorite fine nibs..
Science is a way of skeptically interrogating the universe with a fine understanding of human fallibility.
-Carl Sagan
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#6 Richard

Richard

    WWII Warbird Fan

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,388 posts
  • Location:The Nashua Pen Spa
  • Flag:

Posted 04 June 2007 - 21:57

QUOTE(gregamckinney @ Jun 4 2007, 03:58 PM) View Post
Sheaffer, Wahl and Waterman produced the 'licensed' Gregg pens.

Yup.

QUOTE(gregamckinney @ Jun 4 2007, 03:58 PM) View Post
Each have the Gregg emblem on the cap top.

Nope. Beginning with the Balance in 1929, there is no place for a cap-crown emblem on the end of most Sheaffer pens. Sheaffer imprinted the barrels of its Gregg pens with a symbol meaning Fregg Endorsed. Also, the Gregg Waterman 94 has GREGG embossed on the clip.
Click to send email: richard@richardspens.com
Posted Image

#7 Brian Anderson

Brian Anderson

    Esterbrook Nut

  • Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,024 posts
  • Location:Appleton, WI, USA

Posted 04 June 2007 - 23:34

QUOTE(gregamckinney @ Jun 4 2007, 02:58 PM) View Post
However, I believe there are Estrbrook models with a subtle 'shorthand' symbol on the barrel.


Greg-

Do you know which series this may have been in? Dollar pens or later J series?

Best-
Brisan

www.esterbrook.net All Esterbrook, All the Time.
Posted Image

#8 gregamckinney

gregamckinney

    he's just this guy, you know?

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,294 posts
  • Location:Kirkland, WA (but my home will always be San Jose, CA)

Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:34

Brian, I'll have to dig around to see if I have any notes on the Esterbrook 'shorthand pen.'

Richard, I don't know when these pens were made, but I was under the impression they were made by Sheaffer. The feed and the lever definitely have a Sheaffer-ey look to them.



Best regards, greg

#9 Rabbit

Rabbit

    Esterbrook Fan

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,174 posts
  • Location:Kentucky
  • Flag:

Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:40

And now a question from the young generation: What is Gregg shorthand, and what features of a Gregg nib make it so well suited for the style?

--Stephen

#10 jea

jea

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 05 June 2007 - 02:54

QUOTE(Rabbit @ Jun 4 2007, 10:40 PM) View Post
And now a question from the young generation: What is Gregg shorthand, and what features of a Gregg nib make it so well suited for the style?

--Stephen


Rabbit,
You will find the info on Gregg shorthand in http://en.wikipedia....Gregg_Shorthand. Basically, it is a system to take notes (dictate) very fast. I do not know what makes these nibs good for that purpose. But I have a Esterbrook with a "Gregg shorthand" nib (#9555), which was one of the two Firm Fine #9000 nibs offered by Esterbrook (the other is #9555 recommended for "general writing"). I bought it with that nib on the assumption that it would be good for taking notes fast--in my experience, it is.



#11 BillTheEditor

BillTheEditor

    “Qui m'aime aime mon chien.” Pretty much says it all.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,547 posts

Posted 05 June 2007 - 03:01

QUOTE(Rabbit @ Jun 4 2007, 09:40 PM) View Post
And now a question from the young generation: What is Gregg shorthand, and what features of a Gregg nib make it so well suited for the style?

--Stephen

There is an excellent Wikipedia article on Gregg shorthand that covers the subject very well. (Added: here's one that covers all the more common shorthand systems, and provides illustrations: http://www.alysion.o...andwriting.htm)

Briefly, though, Gregg shorthand is a phonetic system of writing that was once used very widely (almost universally) for taking dictation, recording court proceedings, and (by some students) for taking class notes.

There were other shorthand systems, such as Pitman, but Gregg was pretty much the standard and as recently as twenty years ago applicants for secretarial positions could expect to have to pass tests on their Gregg shorthand speed and their typing speed. Top dictation speed with Gregg depended partly on the version of Gregg being used, but top speed was about 150 words per minute. When I worked for the local power company in the 80s, my secretary could take dictation faster than I could talk (but of course, I'm a Texan, and you'd have to set fire to my hat or my truck to get me to talk fast).

The pen used for Gregg shorthand had a fine, stiff nib. Frequently, though, the person taking Gregg shorthand used a pencil or a ballpoint pen, though neither was as good for the purpose as a fountain pen. All strokes in Gregg were the same weight, so a stiff nib was perfect.

The Pitman system, on the other hand, used a fountain pen with an extra fine, flexible nib. Certain strokes were thick, others were thin, and a flexible nib was the only practical way to do this.

Edited by BillTheEditor, 05 June 2007 - 03:23.


#12 ChristineR

ChristineR

    Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 79 posts

Posted 05 June 2007 - 12:27

The official Gregg pens are also long and narrow. I haven't seen any explanation of why Gregg shorthand should be done with a long, narrow pen, but it doesn't appear to be coincidence. I can imagine a Gregg teacher telling students to buy an Esterbrook LJ and fit it with a 1555 nib. There certainly seem to be a lot of those out there.

#13 liapuyat

liapuyat

    Pelikan Fan

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 897 posts
  • Location:Philippines
  • Flag:

Posted 08 December 2011 - 05:49

I have a couple of 1555 nibs that I enjoy using.

In the interest of showing another example of a Gregg-endorsed pen, I'm showing pix of my green marble Wahl Eversharp - a pen with a fantastically smooth 14k Manifold F nib. It has the Gregg enameled logo on the cap crown. Yes, it happens to be a long, thin pen, and is a pleasure to write with.

Posted Image

Posted Image
"Luxe, calme et volupte"

#14 Hobiwan

Hobiwan

    All I ever wanted was a nice pen to write with...

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 461 posts
  • Location:San Dimas, California
  • Flag:

Posted 08 December 2011 - 08:47

The official Gregg pens are also long and narrow. I haven't seen any explanation of why Gregg shorthand should be done with a long, narrow pen, but it doesn't appear to be coincidence. I can imagine a Gregg teacher telling students to buy an Esterbrook LJ and fit it with a 1555 nib. There certainly seem to be a lot of those out there.


The answer to that might be "light, with good ink capacity for lengthy dictation". Waterman made a long thin eyedropper-filled #2 sized secretary's pen" (about the length of a #20, if memory serves). The length, to hold a good supply of ink, and the thinness to keep the pen light for fast action with the strokes and curls. BTW, they're very hard to find. Seems they were very easy to break. Shorthand is as much art as it is writing, and required a skilled, deft hand.

Edited by Hobiwan, 08 December 2011 - 08:49.

Best Regards
Paul


“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
– Albert Einstein

#15 kirchh

kirchh

    Terrier

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,860 posts

Posted 17 January 2012 - 16:45

It's interesting that so many brands had Gregg pens at one time or another. I wonder how they were selected...were the rights auctioned every few years?

--Daniel
"The greatest mental derangement is to believe things because we want them to be true, not because we observe that they are in effect." --Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

Daniel Kirchheimer
Specialty Pen Restoration
Authorized Sheaffer/Parker/Waterman Vintage Repair Center
Purveyor of the iCroScope digital loupe

#16 BGsTreasureChest

BGsTreasureChest

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze

  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:22

I have this Gregg Fountain Pen for sale;DSCF7274.JPG
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1555.l2649
Any info anyone can give me about it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Brian

#17 penmanila

penmanila

    Vacumaniac

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,723 posts
  • Location:Manila/Virginia/San Diego
  • Flag:

Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:12

and here's mine--also long and thin, but flexy:

Posted Image
Check out my blog and my pens

#18 79spitfire

79spitfire

    No the car is NOT painted with Bay State Blue..

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,228 posts
  • Location:Wherever I'm at..
  • Flag:

Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:26

I have this Gregg Fountain Pen for sale;DSCF7274.JPG
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1555.l2649
Any info anyone can give me about it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Brian

I think that's a Wearever, not a Waterman's...

Increase your IQ, use Linux AND a Fountain pen!!Neko_animated.gif
Fedorabutton-iusefedora.png


#19 BGsTreasureChest

BGsTreasureChest

    Dipped Only

  • Member - Bronze

  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:11

I think you're right. Thanks for the info


I have this Gregg Fountain Pen for sale;DSCF7274.JPG
http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1555.l2649
Any info anyone can give me about it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Brian

I think that's a Wearever, not a Waterman's...