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Montegrappa Miya And 1930 Extra


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Miya: C/C

Extra: piston filler

 

Extra = flagship non-LE Montegrappa

They're both c/c pens. The captive converter of the Extra is just what it is...a captive converter.

The first 'c' is 'c/c' is usually 'cartridge'. How do you easily use a cartridge in an Extra? The 'captive converter' in the Extra if that's what's in the current production models, itself has a piston.

yeah.. you're right. It is a converter filler then. I don't see the point in that though--less ink capacity, and you don't have the option of putting a cartridge in or replacing the covereter....

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yeah.. you're right. It is a converter filler then. I don't see the point in that though--less ink capacity, and you don't have the option of putting a cartridge in or replacing the covereter....

 

A piston filler does not necessarily hold more ink than a converter or even a cartridge.

 

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yeah.. you're right. It is a converter filler then. I don't see the point in that though--less ink capacity, and you don't have the option of putting a cartridge in or replacing the covereter....

 

A piston filler does not necessarily hold more ink than a converter or even a cartridge.

But a well engineered one does :)

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The Extra and Miya both have their cap and barrel made from celluloid; however, it's conceivable that the Extra uses more expensive celluloid.

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yeah.. you're right. It is a converter filler then. I don't see the point in that though--less ink capacity, and you don't have the option of putting a cartridge in or replacing the covereter....

 

A piston filler does not necessarily hold more ink than a converter or even a cartridge.

But a well engineered one does :)

 

This was posted before in the Montblanc forum IIRC and a wish I could credit the person that did the measurements, but being old, I forgit.

 

I had a pen cleaning session, and while flushing some of them, I decided to measure the volume of water I could expel from each. This therefore does not include any residual volume in the nib/feed assembly, which I estimate at around 0.17 to 0.2 cc depending on size. There were some surprises, as you will see!

In order of ascending volume:

MB Kafka: 0.88

MB Hemingway: 1.26

MB Dumas: 1.26

MB Twain: 1.35

MB Lennon: 1.39

MB Shaw: 1.48

MB 149: 1.60

 

I also looked at the volumes of some cartridges, not the sold ink volume, but an empty cartridge filled with water and aspirated:

Standard converter: 0.75

International short: 0.87

Sheaffer slim: 1.20

Parker: 1.47

Sheaffer standard: 1.50

International long: 1.66

 

I used a 1.00 cc insulin syringe, calibrated in 0.01cc, and compensated for the needle volume. I repeated the measurements twice on each, and they were consistent.

 

We often make assumptions about ink capacity based on appearance of the pen, or the cartridge/converter for that matter, so I found this very interesting indeed!

 

Many really well engeneered piston filled pens hold less ink than one International long or two International short cartridges. Many of the converters I've used over the years have held more than enough ink for any needs I've had.

 

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Miya: C/C

Extra: piston filler

 

Extra = flagship non-LE Montegrappa

Hi Eric

 

Is the Extra a real piston filler, or does it "merely" have a captive internal converter?

 

I never much understood what difference that would make although I can see a few reasons why a captive converter might be far preferable.

 

John I'm not sure. I know there's more than one version of the internal mechanism on those pens since the capacity varies depending on production.

 

Like jar, I'm not sure how much a difference it would make since one could consider piston fillers that use internal liners (rather than having the ink and seal in direct contact with the inside of the barrel) as forms of captive converters.

 

 

If the trapped converter is just a Schmidt K5 or K6 that would matter a lot to me. In that case I would rather have a C/C option where I have the choice, and can also use other type of converters like the Schmidt K1 or K2.

I seem to have a constant quarrel with the plastic used in the K5-K6, because of trapped airbubbles. This may be caused by the fact that this type of plastic can get a lot of static electricity.

 

If I know a "twist-filler" is a trapped converter I won't buy.

 

D.ick

 

Thank you all for your contributions. My own limited experience is identical to that of RMN.

 

I don't have anything against converter pens, as long as they work properly. Unfortunately, like RMN, I've had a few converters that did not. Some converters have the annoying habit of trapping the ink at the end furthest from the feed, behind a pocket of air. I need to flick the pen to get the ink to flow again. Alternatively, I replace the converter with a cartridge, and I'm good to go. The latter solution appears not be possible with a captive internal converter (please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never used a pen containing one). This fear nudges me away from purchasing a pen, like the 1930, with a captive converter.

 

On the other hand, none of the piston-fillers I own have had this kind of problem, probably because of the wider diameter of their ink chamber.

 

John

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Miya: C/C

Extra: piston filler

 

Extra = flagship non-LE Montegrappa

They're both c/c pens. The captive converter of the Extra is just what it is...a captive converter.

The first 'c' is 'c/c' is usually 'cartridge'. How do you easily use a cartridge in an Extra? The 'captive converter' in the Extra if that's what's in the current production models, itself has a piston.

yeah.. you're right. It is a converter filler then. I don't see the point in that though--less ink capacity, and you don't have the option of putting a cartridge in or replacing the covereter....

Here are some reasons, not necessarily good ones:

1. To fill it, you don't have to break down a pen with a captive converter like Extra. On some pens, the threads on the section and/or barrel are somewhat weak, so constantly unscrewing and screwing it back it might lead to eventual breakage. I don't own a Miya so I don't know if it would suffer from this.

2. Repairing a captive converter should be more straightforward and less expensive than a "true" piston.

 

The first reason is fairly high on my list. I own a few C/C pens because of it, and it's also the reason I'm not a fan of say the Parker 51. Were I choosing between the Extra and Miya, I'd buy the Extra.

Anyone becomes mannered if you think too much about what other people think. (Kim Gordon)

 

Avatar photography by Kate

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Thank you all for your contributions. My own limited experience is identical to that of RMN.

 

I don't have anything against converter pens, as long as they work properly. Unfortunately, like RMN, I've had a few converters that did not. Some converters have the annoying habit of trapping the ink at the end furthest from the feed, behind a pocket of air. I need to flick the pen to get the ink to flow again. Alternatively, I replace the converter with a cartridge, and I'm good to go. The latter solution appears not be possible with a captive internal converter (please correct me if I'm wrong, because I've never used a pen containing one). This fear nudges me away from purchasing a pen, like the 1930, with a captive converter.

 

On the other hand, none of the piston-fillers I own have had this kind of problem, probably because of the wider diameter of their ink chamber.

 

John

 

If you have a problem with trapped air in a converter... simply put one drop of liquid detergent in a large glass of water. Using the converter fill and empty the pen through the nib/feed. Fill with the ink of your choice and enjoy.

 

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If you have a problem with trapped air in a converter... simply put one drop of liquid detergent in a large glass of water. Using the converter fill and empty the pen through the nib/feed. Fill with the ink of your choice and enjoy.

 

Believe me, jar, I have tried to do exactly that, but I had no luck with some converters. The problem persisted until I bought other converters for the pens in question.

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I've never heard of a captured converter pen that having problems with ink getting trapped in the converter. I assume that pens with a captured converter use something higher quality and more durable than a standard converter.

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I've never heard of a captured converter pen that having problems with ink getting trapped in the converter. I assume that pens with a captured converter use something higher quality and more durable than a standard converter.

I have been wondering about that.

 

But my guess is producers just buy these units standard from Schmidt.

 

If you go to the Schmidt webside you can download their catalogue, with many complete sets. As a penmaker you just have to make a nice coat for these systems and you are ready to go.

 

But a pen like the CS Winston can be had with a standard C/C. So I guess the trapped converter is just standard, with just a system to operate the screw from behing instead of opening the pen.

 

Tha large Stipula converter is a whole different matter. This is a metal affair if I remember well. Perhaps WIMG can shed some light on that.

 

 

 

D.ick

~

KEEP SAFE, WEAR A MASK, KEEP A DISTANCE.

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

~

 

 

 

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FWIW, just stumbled across a 2007 review of the 1930 here in the FPN, and the reviewer had this to say about the C/C:

 

Quirk #2 -- the internal converter. This pen fills like a piston filler, but I don't think it is a real piston filler, I think it's just a converter that's permanently mounted inside the pen and actuated by turning the blind cap on the back end. The first clue is that when you turn the blind cap to fill the pen, it doesn't screw out and away from the body of the pen like my Pelikan or Omas piston fillers do -- the blind cap stays in place and merely rotates. This doesn't make much of a practical difference, in my mind. The second clue, however, does make a practical difference: the pen does not hold nearly as much ink as a true piston filler would. It holds about the same amount of ink you would expect to get into a pen with a converter. I am enough of a pen snob that I prefer real piston fillers to cartridge/converter filling pens. However, at least pens with removable converters can be more easily flushed out and offer the option of using a cartridge in a pinch (for example, when traveling or at a meeting outside the office). Being stuck with a captive internal converter, you get all of the disadvantages of a converter filler with none of the advantages. As I said, this is not really a flaw, in my view, but it is rather annoying. (For the record, Montegrappa's website suggests that the version of this pen with gold trim is a piston filler. I have not seen the gold trim version and prefer the look of the sterling trim to the gold; if given the choice, I think I might still choose the silver trim version with an internal converter to the gold trim version with a real piston filler.)

I've never used a C/C and so don't really have an opinion about them one way or the other. I use a converter with the Miya -- it screws in, BTW.

Écrire c’est tenter de savoir ce qu’on écrirait si on écrivait. – M. Duras

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FWIW, just stumbled across a 2007 review of the 1930 here in the FPN, and the reviewer had this to say about the C/C:

 

 

I've never used a C/C and so don't really have an opinion about them one way or the other. I use a converter with the Miya -- it screws in, BTW.

Sorry, I do not understand. You have not used a C/C but have used a converter?

 

In my world a converter is part of C/C (= cartridges/converter) Where you can choose between the two. Apparently you just chose the converter. Or do I misinterprate your post?

 

D.ick

~

KEEP SAFE, WEAR A MASK, KEEP A DISTANCE.

Freedom exists by virtue of self limitation.

~

 

 

 

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I'm sorry -- I meant what folks above are calling a captive internal converter.

 

Apologies for any confusion.

Écrire c’est tenter de savoir ce qu’on écrirait si on écrivait. – M. Duras

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They're pretty idiot proof [have to be since I use 'em! :ltcapd: ]. I've only had one leak and it was in a Krone, which has a lifetime warranty. Buy and enjoy. :thumbup:

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here are pics of my 1930 extra

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230287.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230296.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230297.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230300.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230301.jpg

Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

 

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here are pics of my 1930 extra

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230287.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230296.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230297.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230300.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/pens%20%20and%20pen%20reviews/PC230301.jpg

 

Congratulations with you new pen. looks beautiful :thumbup: now I have to decide to buy the Green bamboo which I found for € 565

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  • 2 weeks later...

Miya: C/C

Extra: piston filler

 

Extra = flagship non-LE Montegrappa

Hi Eric

 

Is the Extra a real piston filler, or does it "merely" have a captive internal converter?

 

John

The Extra does indeed have a true piston filling system. I don't think any converter system could be considered "captive" or it wouldn't be a "converter."

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The Extra does indeed have a true piston filling system. I don't think any converter system could be considered "captive" or it wouldn't be a "converter."

 

According to the review I quote from above, it would seem to be a captive converter, as opposed to a "true" piston like Pelikan uses. I'm not claiming that one is better or worse than the other, whatever that might mean, just that it's not the same thing apparently.

Écrire c’est tenter de savoir ce qu’on écrirait si on écrivait. – M. Duras

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