Solvents For Diluting Ink

[ShawnD]

I'm usually pretty good at understanding physics, but I'm a bit mixed up here. What are the properties of a good solvent for diluting ink? I just want the ink to flow faster, and water doesn't seem to work very well for this job. Adding water makes the ink hard to start writing, and it quickly stops writing. I tried methanol, and that had some limited success. Methanol made the pen harder to start, but it would flow better after it started to flow. I would need to wet the tip of the pen every time I started writing. 70% isopropanol has limited success as well. The pen will start easily and write perfect then suddenly it stops and I need to wipe the nib with toilet paper to get the ink flowing again.

 

The pen is a $15 Sheaffer with a fine nib. The nib has no flexibility, but it can put out a lot of ink when using Parker Quink. I'm trying to dilute thicker inks like Winsor & Newton inks so they write the way Quink writes. I think the properties I'm looking for are low surface tension and low viscocity, but I'm not sure. The paper I'm using is regular computer paper for laser printers.

 

There are still lots of other solvents to try, but I would rather get some input before I buy a bunch of different solvents and my garage starts to look like a meth lab.

 

viscocities:

acetone - 0.31cP

methyl ethyl ketone - 0.43cP

methanol - 0.54cP

water - 0.89cP

isopropanol - 1.96cP

 

surface tensions (dyn/cm):

isopropanol - 21.7

methanol - 22.6

acetone - 23.7

methyl ethyl ketone - 24.60

water - 71.97

 

polarity index:

isopropanol - 3.9

methyl ethyl ketone - 4.7

methanol - 5.1

acetone - 5.1

water - 9

 

The properties of isopropanol are interesting. The surface tension and polarity is very low, but the viscocity is very high. That might explain why it writes very well as long as there's ink on the nib, but the ink feed from the cartridge to the nib is very slow. Has anyone tried adding a few drops of acetone or MEK to their ink? Did it work?

[Ron Z]

No solvents please. Celluloid can be damaged by most of the ones you mention, (that covers sections and some vintage feeds) including the alcohol. I had a Sheaffer Targa nib that was trash because someone cleaned it, or somehow got a solvent into it, which fused the internal parts together and completely blocked the flow.

 

I don't know what to use, but nothing you've listed except water should be used. I would suggest that rather than tinkering with the ink, you need to look at making sure that the feed is clean, that the nib is properly adjusted, and that the profile of the nib (including tine alignment and inner radius) is correct. Lots of factors there that can turn a pen from a dry writer into a virtual fire hose.

[JLT]

I'll echo Ron Z's advice to stay away from solvents. Instead, think surfactants. Add a small (very small) amount of glycerin or dish detergent (NOT soap) to the ink in a sample vial or some other small container convenient for filling the pen and testing the results.

 

As Ron Z also points out, it could be the pen. Small adjustments to the nib and feed may make a world of difference.

 

 

[ShawnD]

I know the pen isn't the problem because Quink writes fine without any tinkering.

I'll try the detergent idea.

[Freddy]

Concur with Ron Z and JLT...I will add..Winsor & Newton Inks are not formulated for

fountain pens..but designed to be used with artists brush and dip pens..They

Will Clog Fountain Pens..

 

Fred

Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for the court?

 

Flower Belle Lee: No, I'm doing my best to hide it..

 

My Little Chickadee.... .

[Sandy1]

. . .

 

I'm trying to dilute thicker inks like Winsor & Newton inks so they write the way Quink writes.

. . .

 

 

Hi,

 

B I G . . P R O B L E M

 

Winsor & Newton does not make ink that is suitable for use in a fountain pen.

 

Drawing / calligraphy / draughting inks are only very rarely used in 'expendable' fountain pens. (I've been there!)

In the strongest possible polite terms I advise you do whatever can be done to cleanse those inks from your pen/s without delay.

 

Please do not let your pen/s dry out.

 

Soaking, flushing, use of dilute ammonia + surfactant (detergent for now), soaking, flushing . . .

 

You may need to use a cleaning solution for draughting pens or similar to remove the residue from your pen/s.

 

Fingers crossed!!

 

Bye,

S1

 

[ShawnD]

I guess there's my answer. Thanks guys! The bottle says "for fountain and dip pens" but it seems odd that it needs to be heavily watered down before it writes in a fountain pen. I'll trash it immediately.

 

It must be a personality defect that I start looking into how to fix a $5 bottle of ink instead of just throwing it out and buying something better

[Uncle Red]

Well, you can use the W&N with a dip pen.

[Sandy1]

I guess there's my answer. Thanks guys! The bottle says "for fountain and dip pens" but it seems odd that it needs to be heavily watered down before it writes in a fountain pen. I'll trash it immediately.

 

It must be a personality defect that I start looking into how to fix a $5 bottle of ink instead of just throwing it out and buying something better

 

 

Not a 'personality defect' - its part of the adventure!

(I've been there too!)

+1 for a using a dip pen to make use of the non-FP ink. Perhaps a nice Speedball nib with reservoirs for regular writing . . .

 

Bye,

S1

Edited September 5, 2012 by Sandy1

[ink mixer]

Surface tension is probably the most important variable for fountain pen inks. I don't think the solvents mentioned vary enough in viscosity to really effect the flow behavior. Surfactant loading is probably the key variable to control, although more glycerine could help with reducing drying out in a nib. Besides destroying the internals of a pen, the solvents mentioned could effect the solubility of any dyes or the dispersion stability of any pigments in the ink. Luckily, there are so many quality suppliers of fountain pen ink that we shouldn't have to worry about these issues.

[forensic_chemist]

Do not use any of the nonaqueous solvent you mentioned in your list. Every polymer-based barrel and internal part of a FP could be dissolved or severely damaged by them. Ink components (dyes) usually precipitate even with methanol clogging your pen.

If you need to diluting ink, use distilled or better milliq water filtered through a 0.25 or 0.4 um filter. To change surface tension of inks you need surfactants that are presents in soap, but sometimes soap is added to parfumes that are oil-based and this could damage your pen again.

[forensic_chemist]

every change in ink composition/dilution should be made really carefully by people with a strong and deep knowledge of chemistry and ink chemistry

[andru]

I guess there's my answer. Thanks guys! The bottle says "for fountain and dip pens" but it seems odd that it needs to be heavily watered down before it writes in a fountain pen. I'll trash it immediately.

Yes some of the bottles say good for fountain pens, and that is very bad.

 

I was successful in getting the clogs out of my pen with ammonia-water solution. Learned my lesson (same goes for Sanford Higgin's Sepia).

[zuku]

The title of this tread is misleading. It most read: "What solvents to use to dilute Winsor & Newton Inks, in order to use them in Fountain pens".

Then OP most add a warning at the begining of his first post saying: "By posting this tread i have come to know that WInsor and Newton does not make inks for fountain pens. Read carefully".

Then everythign is alright.

[ShawnD]

Add a small (very small) amount of glycerin or dish detergent (NOT soap)

I added a buttload of Sunlight dish soap to some other W&N ink I had, and now it works great. It writes and feels a lot like a felt pen. It has some drag to it, and it writes darker based on speed rather than how hard I write. I'll post a picture of it when I get home.

[KrazyIvan]

Not endorsing using dip pen ink in a fountain pen but would JB's Perfect Pen flush work as an ink dilution agent? Just throwing the idea out there.

[fiberdrunk]

I've used W&N Sepia in a fountain pen without any problems. I'm surprised to see others say you can't use them in fountain pens.

[mhosea]

It must be a personality defect that I start looking into how to fix a $5 bottle of ink instead of just throwing it out and buying something better

 

It is not a defect and may be used to your advantage, but it is something you must learn to control, grasshopper.

[inkstainedruth]

I've used W&N Sepia in a fountain pen without any problems. I'm surprised to see others say you can't use them in fountain pens.

 

According to someone I talked to in an art store, W&N inks were supposedly okay, as long as you didn't leave the ink in the pen, but flushed the pen out well when you were done. I wasn't sure that was actually the case, so i decided to wait and not buy any (even though they did say on the box that they were FP safe).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[bunnspecial]

From another hobby, I have nearly full half-liter bottle of Kodak Photoflo. Considering that I doubt I would use that much on developing film in my lifetime, I don't mind to use a little bit of it as necessary on ink.

 

Photoflo is used in developing as an additive to the final rinse to reduce surface tension and thus prevent spotting on the film. It's essentially nothing but a very concentrated solution of surfactants, so it will make an ink wetter and more lubricating without adding any of the perfumes or other stuff usually present in dish soap.