Cs Issues....

[Quartermain]

Fellow CS FPN'ers,

 

I have been reading many posts regarding issues of poor performing CS nibs with interest, as I have had issues with my CS Wellington. On return from an operational tour of Afghansitan, I purchased the pen as a tax free present to myself from Andy's Pens (of whom provides the finest customer service), fitted with an IB nib. However, after many attempts to increase the flow and using different inks I finally came to the conclusion that the IB nib was just not for my writing style therefore, Andy very kindly changed the nib to a B.

Again, things were not good with the B nib as it had a tendency to skip, scratch and suffer flow issues. I searched these fantasitc forums and tried everything to try and forge a lasting relationship but alas, the decision was made to part company with the pen and purchase a Pelikan M1000 as a replacement. On seeing the Pelikan in a local pen shop, I was reminded why CS pens are so sought after and have such a following. The construction, the asthetics and the weight of the Wellington were second to none over the M1000 therefore, the decision was made to give it another try - this time, my decision was to let our fellow FPN'er Oxonion work his magic with the nib. Well, on my return from a week away at work, I was greeted with a package containing my 'tweeked' CS Wellington. All I can say is wow! John, you certainly have certainly worked your magic with this nib and I can honestly say it is nothing short of stunning - reliable, wet and absolutely sublime, I just wish this nib was this nice when it came from the factory. I am so pleased with what has been done to the nib and I can honestly say that now, I couldn't bear to part with it.

 

So, I ask - why are CS nibs so problematic straight from the factory? Why is it that I have to employ the services of a nib specialist to 'tweek' the nib on a brand new pen, in order to prevent a premature divorce? For the money we pay for such pens, I wish the performace (as in my experience) would meet firstly with the asking price, and secondly with the resin finish and fantastic asthetics.

All I can say is that if it wasn't for John's magic, this pen would be either with another owner, or indeed on my desk - an ornate object with so much potential but never really delivering. I am sure there are many CS owners that are absolutely thrilled with the performance of their pens straight from the box but clearly, there is a large proportion of us that are not. Whilst I understand that Mary Burke is a regular FPN goer and is happy to provide advice to us all regarding our purchases and CS customer service being regarded by most as second to none, I just wish that these exceptional writing implements were as good from the box. So, would I purchase another CS in the future? My answer to this is absolutely! and although subjective, they exude a quality that you won't find in other exclusive pen manufacturers which has, in my experience, often become a topic of conversation with complete strangers. Despite my issues with the B nib, I would certainly purchase another, in fact I am already thinking of purchasing yet another Wellington and perhaps even a Winston - they would however have to undertake a little trip to Oxford before being used in anger - a trip that is so worth the added financial oulay and for me personally, a process that would go a long way in preventing so much initial disappointment.

[Rich L]

I have a Pelikan that doesn't write.

 

Here's my thought on the matter: the nibs are not made in the Conway Stewart factory - they are Bock nibs. Bock makes fantastic nibs but would you believe that occasionally there's one that gets tweaked the wrong way or the grind misses a bit. Maybe you ended up with that one. I'm guessing my Pelikan wound up on that trap. Let me be rhetorical so the comment is not directed at you. What would we have the factories do? Try out each nib assembled in the pen and try out all the popular inks? Methinks not; in fact, that's exactly what the majority (my wild presumption) do not want. "Leave my pen un-inked" is the cry. "Don't you dare ink my pen before you deliver it." If I buy a NOS pen it had better be un-inked. So how do you test something you bought from someone else when you're prohibited from testing it? I think CS is stuck on the horns of that dilemma. I suppose they could have tested pens and untested pens or have a word with Bock. CS does stand behind their nibs even though it might be inconvenient for the buyer to wait for an adjustment. We are dealing with an "organic" situation in that everyone writes differently and has different preferences. If we could only get rid of that aspect and make writing an expressionless robotic algorithm then we will have also gotten rid of a good part of the problem. Yes, people are part of the problem as well as insufficient QA from the source.

 

I'm glad you like CS pens! I do, too. I have just a few.

 

Cheers,

Rich

[RMN]

@RichL: +1

 

 

I have 4 CS pens. One nib gave problems, and was dealt with by CS. Since then, I learned that the other pens initially seemed to have a similar problem, but I found out that actually was a combination with converterproblems with skingrease on too slick paper (clairefontaine) The same nib with a cartridge on plain paper writes like a dream.

 

I have had nib problems with Visconti, a Lamy2000 and some other.

The Lamy had a real bad nib, the others might have needed tweaking, but were replaced by my shop...

Mostly, the problem is not the nib, but how it sits on the feed.

Also cleaning the pen before first use helps tremendously.

Sometimes it is how the company makes the pen.

 

On our LE Stipula pens I had some problems with flow. WIMG found out that Stipula on purpose places the tines very close because most penusers treat a FP as a BP with too much pressure. So no qualitycontrol issue, but on purpose.

As Rich says, it is all a matter of preference.

I do not write fast. I have a Sailor musicnib I can't use because it is way too wet. Others on these forums like a wet gusher because they write so fast a broad nib like that would run dry otherways.

 

D.ick

[DM48]

While I should imagine that all manufacturers have issues Conway Stewart seem to have more than their fare share unfortunately. The majority of my Conway Stewart pens have had the same problem - flow issues! While they will take the pens and repair the problem I would much prefer them to resolve flow issues BEFORE point of sale. It seem that Conway Stewart will not or cannot address this situation which continually spoils a good product :bonk:

[The Good Captain]

I also have four CS pens, all with the 'Churchill' size nib. As I've written on FPN before only one was great, straight out of the box and I had to tweak the other three. Having said that, it's easy to realign the metal part with the feed and even to improve the flow with gentle use of a penknife.

Like the original poster, I probably wouldn't mind paying a small fee to have a nib tuned for me but really think that it shouldn't be necessary when the pens cost a pretty fair amount of hard-earned cash in the first place.

Personal preference is one thing but the 'Sale of Goods Act' is another.

[Chi Town]

I also have four CS pens, all with the 'Churchill' size nib. As I've written on FPN before only one was great, straight out of the box and I had to tweak the other three. Having said that, it's easy to realign the metal part with the feed and even to improve the flow with gentle use of a penknife.

Like the original poster, I probably wouldn't mind paying a small fee to have a nib tuned for me but really think that it shouldn't be necessary when the pens cost a pretty fair amount of hard-earned cash in the first place.

Personal preference is one thing but the 'Sale of Goods Act' is another.

 

 

+ 1

[Quartermain]

Whilst my original post was in no way a 'slur'on the CS brand and I am in no way a disgruntled customer, I do agree with the Good Captain that a nib should be come from the factory with x level of performance and whilst I agree that writing with a fountain pen is entirely a subjective act , it still astounds me of the amount of posts and their regularity where CS pens are sent away to undertake the 'tweeking' process or indeed returned to CS. I think that only statistical data would provide us ultimate proof, but I know I have two inexpensive Pelikans, one with a steel nib that were utterly fantastic straight from the box.

Like I have already mentioned in my previous post, the quality and finish of CS pens is absoulutely second to none and with my limted exposure to examples from other premium manufacturers, I would still purchase a CS in a heartbeat - I will just resign myself to sending it to an expert before I fall in love - I was just interested and curious to hear other CS owners opinions and experiences.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Quartermain

[Koyote]

I have a Pelikan that doesn't write.

 

Here's my thought on the matter: the nibs are not made in the Conway Stewart factory - they are Bock nibs. Bock makes fantastic nibs but would you believe that occasionally there's one that gets tweaked the wrong way or the grind misses a bit. Maybe you ended up with that one. I'm guessing my Pelikan wound up on that trap. Let me be rhetorical so the comment is not directed at you. What would we have the factories do? Try out each nib assembled in the pen and try out all the popular inks? Methinks not; in fact, that's exactly what the majority (my wild presumption) do not want. "Leave my pen un-inked" is the cry. "Don't you dare ink my pen before you deliver it." If I buy a NOS pen it had better be un-inked. So how do you test something you bought from someone else when you're prohibited from testing it? I think CS is stuck on the horns of that dilemma. I suppose they could have tested pens and untested pens or have a word with Bock. CS does stand behind their nibs even though it might be inconvenient for the buyer to wait for an adjustment. We are dealing with an "organic" situation in that everyone writes differently and has different preferences. If we could only get rid of that aspect and make writing an expressionless robotic algorithm then we will have also gotten rid of a good part of the problem. Yes, people are part of the problem as well as insufficient QA from the source.

 

I'm glad you like CS pens! I do, too. I have just a few.

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

Yes, I would like a pen actually tested before it leaves the factory. Not with all inks, but with a nice standard ink like a Waterman blue. (I have never had a pen work with one ink and not others, or work with all inks but one - so a simple test should suffice.)

 

I think it is outrageous that so many pens (including some I have purchased) fail to work straight out-of-the-box. Every new auto I have purchased has started and run properly from day one - and they are much more complicated devices than pens.

 

None of this is specific to CS - I am talking about all pens.

[Rich L]

Ah, yes, autos - they must be started and driven to get to the showroom floor.

 

So CS would test with CS ink

Parker would test with Quink

Pelikan would test with Pelikan ink

Waterman would test with Waterman ink

etc.

 

There will never be a standard ink that all makers will agree upon but perhaps a subset of independent ink somehow formulated collaboratively would work but that, I think, would be harder to arrange than a Syrian ceasefire. Everyone wants a proprietary edge.

 

I would agree that the best of these words would be to have the pen tested and then cleaned absolutely thoroughly, reassembled, and placed in inventory with a sticker that says:

 

"Fully tested at a 45º writing angle at a writing speed of 6 inches (15cm) per second both horizontally and vertically with a vertical pressure of 2 oz (57 grams), (This is fun ) filled with Generic Black*** ink. The test writing sheet is included and initialed (in ball point!) by the Quality inspector responsible for the proper operation of this fountain pen.

Disclaimer: The writing qualities and properties of this pen are not warranted if there is any deviation from the standards applied during the QA test. This includes but is not limited to ink, age of ink, viscosity and pH of ink, writing angle, tilt, and writing speed and pressure. Any deviation from the standards may cause your pen to perform differently or not at all."

*** Generic Black is a trademark of Pen Testers International, Ltd. For further information about this ink and its composition please go to http://www.pentestersintl.co.uk

 

Perhaps there could be a standard testing facility (very rough analogy is the assay office for precious metals) for all pens to go through before they get the seal of approval but you'd still have some disclaimer.

 

Most of all, you'd have increased cost no matter who does it; factory or central facility. So, in this competitive world, which manufacturer is going to make the plunge and increase internal costs for partial testing and cleaning against the risk of letting an occasional "skipper" out there?

 

Smiles, people!

 

Cheers,

Rich

[RMN]

:ltcapd:

 

I partially disagree, Rich.

 

Disassembling, cleaning and reassembleing could mean the nib-feed connection on the reassembled pen was off by accident.

 

But I offer the alternative. You could go to a B&M shop and testdrive the pen yourself. Then you will be sure it will function with your writing angle/pressure/inktype.

 

Whoever goes for the quick buck by ordering online forfeits the right to testdrive and the right to complain.

 

D.ick

[Ghost Plane]

Um...we don't HAVE a bricks and mortar closer that sells these closer than a 7 hour drive. Next suggestion?

[Rich L]

:ltcapd:

 

I partially disagree, Rich. What? Phffftt!! (how do you spell raspberry? joking, joking

 

Disassembling, cleaning and reassembleing could mean the nib-feed connection on the reassembled pen was off by accident.

 

But I offer the alternative. You could go to a B&M shop and testdrive the pen yourself. Then you will be sure it will function with your writing angle/pressure/inktype.

 

Whoever goes for the quick buck by ordering online forfeits the right to testdrive and the right to complain.

 

D.ick

 

Sure, there could be error in reassembly but that's a price to be paid for the "in-factory" test and fix. If you don't disassemble and clean you're left with an inked pen. I think that's what you're saying.

 

I don't know what a B&M shop is but if you test drive a pen and you don't want it - what then does the storekeeper do with it? Of course they hang on to it but they can't be keeping every make and model that they sell inked for test driving, right?? If I liked it and it was new I'd probably buy it but I think there are a lot of folks out there that want to test drive and then buy an un-inked one. That's buying an untested pen unless it went through PenTestersIntl. I admit I don't know the workings and business model for the test drive shops although I've been in a couple and watched people drive this and then drive that.

 

I think who ought to be testing nibs is the nib maker. They should warrant their product. So, that means Pelikan should test, Mont Blanc should test - who else makes their own - Sailor, Namiki, .... Bock, and JoWo should test as suppliers. As a pen maker on a small scale but still understanding what the factories are up against, I as well as anyone else would want assurance that a product I buy works as not only advertised, but intended.

 

I think, in essence, if you want a tested pen it has to have been, or is, contaminated (strong word, I know). That's probably OK for some and not for others. Every pen I've ever bought has been untested; on-line, direct, and from storefronts and the pens I make and sell are not tested first. As a buyer I don't mind taking my chances and I make the decision based on reputation. If it doesn't pan out over the long run then my wallet makes a decision. But, that's just me and I suppose part of that attitude is because I have some aptitude for addressing and fixing things myself. Pertinent to this thread, I just touched up a particularly skippy CS nib myself and I'm just tickled it worked out. If it hadn't, it would have gone off to Mary. Mary's probably saying "Yay!" I just knida shrug and say that sometimes this happens although I know that is small consolation to others.

 

Cheers folks,

Rich

 

edit : Ah! Brick and mortar - thanks Ghost!

Edited April 21, 2012 by Rich L

[Ghost Plane]

B&M is short hand for bricks and mortar, i.e. shop with a building you walk into.

[raging.dragon]

What would we have the factories do? Try out each nib assembled in the pen and try out all the popular inks? Methinks not; in fact, that's exactly what the majority (my wild presumption) do not want. "Leave my pen un-inked" is the cry. "Don't you dare ink my pen before you deliver it." If I buy a NOS pen it had better be un-inked.

 

I can see that collectors who plan to keep their pens uninked to maximize resale value wouldn't want the factory inking and testing the pen. However, since I plan to ink and use my pens, I'd like the factory to ink and test the pens. Obviously testing with a wide variety of inks wouldn't be feasible, I'd be happy with them using a single ink and telling what it is. For example, unless you request otherwise, John Mottishaw and Richard Binder will test and adjust (if necesary) any pen bought from them. I believe John uses Sheaffer Blue and Richard Waterman Florida Blue.

[raging.dragon]

Ah, yes, autos - they must be started and driven to get to the showroom floor.

 

So CS would test with CS ink

Parker would test with Quink

Pelikan would test with Pelikan ink

Waterman would test with Waterman ink

etc.

 

There will never be a standard ink that all makers will agree upon but perhaps a subset of independent ink somehow formulated collaboratively would work but that, I think, would be harder to arrange than a Syrian ceasefire. Everyone wants a proprietary edge.

 

I would agree that the best of these words would be to have the pen tested and then cleaned absolutely thoroughly, reassembled, and placed in inventory with a sticker that says:

 

"Fully tested at a 45º writing angle at a writing speed of 6 inches (15cm) per second both horizontally and vertically with a vertical pressure of 2 oz (57 grams), (This is fun ) filled with Generic Black*** ink. The test writing sheet is included and initialed (in ball point!) by the Quality inspector responsible for the proper operation of this fountain pen.

Disclaimer: The writing qualities and properties of this pen are not warranted if there is any deviation from the standards applied during the QA test. This includes but is not limited to ink, age of ink, viscosity and pH of ink, writing angle, tilt, and writing speed and pressure. Any deviation from the standards may cause your pen to perform differently or not at all."

*** Generic Black is a trademark of Pen Testers International, Ltd. For further information about this ink and its composition please go to http://www.pentestersintl.co.uk

 

Perhaps there could be a standard testing facility (very rough analogy is the assay office for precious metals) for all pens to go through before they get the seal of approval but you'd still have some disclaimer.

 

Most of all, you'd have increased cost no matter who does it; factory or central facility. So, in this competitive world, which manufacturer is going to make the plunge and increase internal costs for partial testing and cleaning against the risk of letting an occasional "skipper" out there?

 

Smiles, people!

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

There's no need to go to such great lengths. Like Koyote, I don't find modern nibs to be so picky about different inks for it to matter which the factory uses in their tests, so long as it's half decent and non-exotic. Fine by me if each manufacturer uses one of their own inks for their testing.

 

Again, I don't find that writing position and pressure matter that much with a properly adjusted modern nib. So I don't see any need to standardize this beyond making sure the tester uses something approaching a standard tripod grip.

[Boston Brian]

All the answers are interesting, and one unmentioned factor surely is luck, blind chance. I have two CS pens, a Churchill and a Detection series, Michael Jecks, both if which wrote perfectly right out of the box.

On the other hand I bought a Pelikan 600, based on what I had read from other FPN friends, about the juicy easy flowing nature of Pelikan pens, and wouldn't you know, I got the only dry Pelikan in the western world.(still have not sent it away to have it adjusted)

I am grateful for the nib experts who can fine tune our pens to suit our different and very individual needs and requirements.

[The Good Captain]

All the answers are interesting, and one unmentioned factor surely is luck, blind chance. I have two CS pens, a Churchill and a Detection series, Michael Jecks, both if which wrote perfectly right out of the box.

On the other hand I bought a Pelikan 600, based on what I had read from other FPN friends, about the juicy easy flowing nature of Pelikan pens, and wouldn't you know, I got the only dry Pelikan in the western world.(still have not sent it away to have it adjusted)

I am grateful for the nib experts who can fine tune our pens to suit our different and very individual needs and requirements.

What ink/s were you using in the 600 to make you think it was so unique, as a matter of interest? And what size nib?

[Boston Brian]

Regarding the nib size on the Pelikan 600, I have a B, BB and OBB nib for this pen, and have used all of them in it.

I have used a variety of inks, Private Reserve, Levenger, and Sheaffer, do you have suggestions on ink that I could or should be using?

[The Good Captain]

Regarding the nib size on the Pelikan 600, I have a B, BB and OBB nib for this pen, and have used all of them in it.

I have used a variety of inks, Private Reserve, Levenger, and Sheaffer, do you have suggestions on ink that I could or should be using?

Not really as I have only used EF, F and M nibs on my 600s and have found that they have all responded well with my usual inks: Diamine; Pelikan 4001; Sheaffer; Waterman; Parker/Quink and a couple of Noodler's. The driest two have been Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black and Lamy Blue-Black. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how, with your relatively much wider nibs than mine, you are having the dry writing.

Obviously, I get a wetter line as I move up from EF to M, even with the same ink but I can't offer a direct comparison as I've not got any Private Reserve or Levenger inks.

 

 

[Ghost Plane]

Okay, I'm an OBB/BB lover, so I can chime in. If you're looking to go wetter and have access to PR inks, Tanzanite is the laxative ink of the pen world. If that doesn't leave your nib positively oozing, you definitely have a feed problem. R&K, Iroshizuku, the blue/green end of the Herbin spectrum, and Waterman should all flow easily from your pen.