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In Paper Heaven 完全


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#1 SamCapote

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 21:57

Anyone who has bought a notebook from Mr. Yoshino-san's Design.Y, knows the exquisite Tamoe River thin quality paper which he uses. It is kanzen 完全

I have wanted to get quantities of this paper and in larger sizes because it is so remarkable among the hundreds of papers I have used. Here's my list of why I like it:


  • It brings out the smoothest feel with all the pen nibs, and all the inks I have used on it.
  • The quality feel (same on both sides) of the paper is smooth and elegant.
  • Although it also comes in white, the subtle, cream color is enhancing rather than conflicting.
  • Inks do not feather on this paper. I have tried at least 150 inks so far.
  • Inks do not bleed. This is the most astounding feature, given how thin this paper is. Not even with extremely wet writing from my Pelikan M1000 O3B nib.
  • Inks shade beautifully.
  • Inks that are known to have a secondary sheen, demonstrate it on this paper.
This was a folded note from Mr. Yoshino-san where he used a Pelikan M1000 BBB nib and I used a wet, O3B.


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I got this in A-4 size (210 by 297 millimetres or 8.3 × 11.7 in). It is thin at 52 gram/meter² (normal 20lb copy paper is 75 g/m²; HP 30lb Premium Laser Jet is 120 g/m²), yet not translucent like velum. The image of the ream below compares the height of 1,000 sheets of Tomoe River to 500 sheets of copy paper.


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I can use my QCM 1200e to reliably & cleanly cut it to whatever sizes I want. While it will not work for all paper applications, I will never be without this paper again. There is of course one downside as you can imagine coming from Japan....cost.

Edited by SamCapote, 20 April 2012 - 16:13.

With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

#2 luiztfc

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 23:41

Thanks for the review, this seems to be such a nice paper to write on.

#3 watch_art

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 00:08

Absolutely beautiful - but after converting price - not something I'll ever afford. :(

Sadly.

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#4 SamCapote

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:38


Absolutely beautiful - but after converting price - not something I'll ever afford. :sad:

Sadly.


I'll have to send you some. I also just ordered some padding compound and chipboard to make some A-4 and smaller tablets.
With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

#5 DanF

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:58

OK, so how much is a ream shipped? I tried Googling, but had no luck finding a seller. Mostly just curious, but you never know...

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#6 SamCapote

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 16:11

OK, so how much is a ream shipped? I tried Googling, but had no luck finding a seller. Mostly just curious, but you never know...

Dan


They don't just sell a ream. Minimum was 4,000 or 4 reams. As far as the price, I have to see how the conversion comes through...but basically if you have to ask that question, it will be too much.

I can only say that I see why the highly regarded and respected Mr. Yoshino-san chose this paper. It is kanzen. 完全
With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

#7 Angry__Panda

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 16:46

If you have to ask it is too much? This is kind of a cop out IMHO. I mean I wouldn't order something without knowing how much it is, I don't care if it is a Bentley or a toothbrush. I am having the same problem, I googled it to no avail. I would love to know how much it costs and where you got it.

I will say after hearing this is the paper he uses in his bound journals I will probably be buying one of them now :) .

#8 watch_art

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 16:53

The record notebook is $115 before shipping.

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#9 watch_art

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 17:01

From here:
http://design-y.near...order/cart.html

You'd have to just email and ask for that paper like what Sam has and they'll quote you something. They seem very nice from their website.

:)

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#10 dcpritch

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 18:26

The record notebook is $115 before shipping.


That's for the "Record 336" book. The 216 and 288 models are smaller, with less pages, and price at $46 and $60, respectively, with today's exchange rate. The "LP Record", a 600 page journal, is $109.

Thanks Sam for sharing your find. This paper looks amazing!
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#11 watch_art

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 18:31

It really is worth it with 600 pages. That's pretty awesome.

Would be a LOT of devil worms. :P

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#12 professionaldilettante

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 18:57

If you have to ask it is too much? This is kind of a cop out IMHO. I mean I wouldn't order something without knowing how much it is, I don't care if it is a Bentley or a toothbrush. I am having the same problem, I googled it to no avail. I would love to know how much it costs and where you got it.

I will say after hearing this is the paper he uses in his bound journals I will probably be buying one of them now :) .

It's not a cop out. Even if he told you, you most likely never buy 4 reams of paper because it's out of your league of cost, especially for paper. At over 100$ for a ream of paper? Would you do that? At most, I've paid $20 for cotton laid resume paper. That's not even including shipping, which wouldn't be cheap, since it's solid paper.
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#13 Martini25

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 18:58

Want!

But what I really want is the set up they have to make the journal blocks! Wow, I didn't even think of using a weight when sewing my signatures together!

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#14 Angry__Panda

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:45


If you have to ask it is too much? This is kind of a cop out IMHO. I mean I wouldn't order something without knowing how much it is, I don't care if it is a Bentley or a toothbrush. I am having the same problem, I googled it to no avail. I would love to know how much it costs and where you got it.

I will say after hearing this is the paper he uses in his bound journals I will probably be buying one of them now :) .

It's not a cop out. Even if he told you, you most likely never buy 4 reams of paper because it's out of your league of cost, especially for paper. At over 100$ for a ream of paper? Would you do that? At most, I've paid $20 for cotton laid resume paper. That's not even including shipping, which wouldn't be cheap, since it's solid paper.


I expected more. So yeah, actually I might. I know I am fairly new, but recently poked my head in this forum and started making my own journals and sketchbooks. Add in reading a recent topic about sketching with a fountain pen and that is easily worth it to me to get some quality paper to use on a regular basis.

On second read, I didn't mean to sound rude about that, if I did I am sorry. I just think that every time I have asked someone how much something can be had for they give me the answer, "If you have to ask you can't afford it." For me, anything that is worth the extra is worth it. Something I would be using every day and something I would want to last (I.e. if I want to look at my journal or sketch in 10 years) is definitely worth extra.

PS sorry if there any typos, I am responding on my phone which isn't the greatest heh.

#15 ExcaliburZ

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:52

Can we can a reverse side of the paper so we can see what the bleed-through is like?
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#16 fountainpenfen

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 08:43

The paper used for these notebooks is made by a company called TOMOEGAWA (http://www.tomoegawa.co.jp). You can find more information about this line of their products on this site: http://www.tomoegawa...ht_weight.html. The precise paper mentioned in this thread is called トモエリバー(手帳用). This information should be sufficient to find a dealer in Japan by using Google.

Edited by fountainpenfen, 21 April 2012 - 08:50.


#17 Stompie

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:36

Sam, if you getting the 4 reams are you going to be making notepads out of this paper and if so will they be for sale?

Edited by Stompie, 21 April 2012 - 09:37.

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#18 Stompie

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:42

It really is worth it with 600 pages. That's pretty awesome.

Would be a LOT of devil worms. :P



= £70 plus postage.

For 600 quality pages hand bound in leather really quite cheap! :thumbup:


and I too would like to see a picture of both sides of the paper with that note from Mr Y

Edited by Stompie, 21 April 2012 - 09:46.

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#19 Karen Traviss

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:07


It really is worth it with 600 pages. That's pretty awesome.

Would be a LOT of devil worms. :P



= £70 plus postage.

For 600 quality pages hand bound in leather really quite cheap! :thumbup:


and I too would like to see a picture of both sides of the paper with that note from Mr Y



Model 216 actually sounds a lot cheaper than Smythson's equivalent if the page count is on the same basis. Smythson's is thin, 50g no-showthrough paper and very FP-friendly, but lined. I have a stash of their notebooks in various sizes but found I don't use them much because of the lines. And it's only available in blue. Nothing wrong with blue, but I prefer white or cream. Gorgeous covers, though.

With Biblio and onion skin papers now apparently unavailable in the UK (Paper2Go has stopped stocking all those) I might check out Design-Y. Thank you for a very useful link.
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#20 Stompie

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 11:10

I have a stash of their notebooks in various sizes but found I don't use them much because of the lines.



Hmm, wanna unload some of those?
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#21 Karen Traviss

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:26


I have a stash of their notebooks in various sizes but found I don't use them much because of the lines.



Hmm, wanna unload some of those?


Not quite yet... and then there's the stash of Moleskines...

I've just ordered a Model 288 from Design-Y, so I'll decide whether to purge my stationery cupboard when I get a chance to fondle that. I'm using up an eight-year-old supply of Clairefontaine wirebound A5s at the moment. I do tend to buy in bulk "just in case it's discontinued", regret it, but then force myself to use it up. I come from the generation that was made to clear its plate before it could leave the table.

The up-side of that habit, of course, is finding five forgotten full bottles of Parker Penman at the back of a drawer last week - one Ebony, three Mocha, and one Sapphire.
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#22 Stompie

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:48



I have a stash of their notebooks in various sizes but found I don't use them much because of the lines.



Hmm, wanna unload some of those?


Not quite yet... and then there's the stash of Moleskines...

I've just ordered a Model 288 from Design-Y, so I'll decide whether to purge my stationery cupboard when I get a chance to fondle that. I'm using up an eight-year-old supply of Clairefontaine wirebound A5s at the moment. I do tend to buy in bulk "just in case it's discontinued", regret it, but then force myself to use it up. I come from the generation that was made to clear its plate before it could leave the table.

The up-side of that habit, of course, is finding five forgotten full bottles of Parker Penman at the back of a drawer last week - one Ebony, three Mocha, and one Sapphire.


Well if you do, let me know what price.
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#23 Samovar

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 13:13

Just ordered one, not too expensive considering that I am ordering in Japan. Thanks for sharing.
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#24 PENitent

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 13:14


If you have to ask it is too much? This is kind of a cop out IMHO. I mean I wouldn't order something without knowing how much it is, I don't care if it is a Bentley or a toothbrush. I am having the same problem, I googled it to no avail. I would love to know how much it costs and where you got it.

I will say after hearing this is the paper he uses in his bound journals I will probably be buying one of them now :) .

It's not a cop out. Even if he told you, you most likely never buy 4 reams of paper because it's out of your league of cost, especially for paper. At over 100$ for a ream of paper? Would you do that? At most, I've paid $20 for cotton laid resume paper. That's not even including shipping, which wouldn't be cheap, since it's solid paper.


Amalfi paper is around $1.50 a sheet so there are regularly available paper that is in the same zone. it is funny that in a hobby with $30 bottles of ink and thousand dollar pens that paper would get " if you ask you can not afford it" :headsmack:
Erring; for he with this rebellious rout Fell long before; nor aught aviled him now To have built in Heaven high towers; nor did he scape By all his engines, but was headlong sent With his industrious crew, to build in Hell

#25 Angry__Panda

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 14:48

You might regret bulk now, but about half my stuff I wish I had done the same and bought in bulk.

I guess I will grab one of his journals before I decide on the paper, for 600 pages it really isn't that much. I mean I just made my own (though I had to buy some tools due to it being my first time making a bound book) and it was probably 50+ dollars in just materials so for a little over 100 (before I get killed on shipping I am sure) that isn't bad.

Also, thanks for all the links, now I have a place to go to get this when I find out the paper is "heaven" as Sam describes it :) .

#26 SamCapote

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:32

Here is the link should you wish to get the paper in A-4 size. I still don't know the ACTUAL price because there is conversion, shipping, etc., but I'm sure it is more expensive than most people would be willing to pay especially because I had it shipped EMS so nothing went wrong with it.

I am going to make some pads. Just trying a couple of padding compounds &/or rubber cement to see what works best.

Here are the front and back of some samples I just did, including the note from Mr. Yoshino-san. Remember this is 52 weight paper. I wouldn't be using this to write on both sides of the paper, but you can see that none of them bleed through. Several of the juicy nibs left puddles that took a bit longer to dry. Normal size & flowing nibs dries pretty quickly. When I use especially the Pelikan M1000 OBBB nib on most paper it bleeds through.

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Edited by SamCapote, 21 April 2012 - 21:44.

With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.

#27 sarahfar

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 22:30

Great work Sam. I think the paper is incredible. Great strength, very light and while there are shadows and ghosting, it doesn't feather or bleed. Mr. Yoshino's work is beyond description. The only issue is if you get a notebook you will fear using it as the beauty is so great. Again Sam great work.

#28 WOBentley

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 02:53

Here is the link should you wish to get the paper in A-4 size.

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#29 Jake

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 04:36

I have a Design.Y Record 216 notebook, and while I admire the notebook and craftsmanship, to me the paper is too thin: I find that I accident smush it when I turn pages, and it seems to crinkle in a fashion heavier papers don't.

#30 SamCapote

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 05:26

I have a Design.Y Record 216 notebook, and while I admire the notebook and craftsmanship, to me the paper is too thin: I find that I accident smush it when I turn pages, and it seems to crinkle in a fashion heavier papers don't.


You are right that the paper is thin, and that it can also have all these other features is what makes using it a magical, unique experience. There is a reason why the master Japanese notebook craftsman, Mr. Yoshino-san chose it from all available paper.

I assume by crinkle, you mean the feel as you carefully turn the pages, but that is true with any thin paper whether a dictionary, Bible, phone book, or thin page magazines, and I respect your personal preference. No offense, but I'm not sure what you mean by "smush" since that is not a real word outside of the Jersey Shore TV show imbeciles who demonstrate that human beings can walk & copulate without having higher brain function.
With the new FPN rules, now I REALLY don't know what to put in my signature.