How To Make My Sailor 1911 As Smooth As My Pelikan M400?

[djunderw]

I have a Pelikan M400 Fine that writes very smoothly. I have a Sailor 1911s Fine that isn't as smooth. I'm thinking about sending off my Sailor for nib adjustment. What modifications should I ask to be made so that my Sailor writes a lot more smoothly? Should I just ask the nibmeister to turn the Sailor Fine into a Sailor Medium? Or might the Sailor Broad be closer to the Pelikan Fine? Is there anything else I should ask for from the nibmeister?

[tinta]

Before you send the Sailor to a technician, try the "brown paper trick" for nib smoothing.

This method has been discussed on these Forums & often works.

There is now one thread on Repairs Q&A Forum re: "nib smoothing".

Are the nib's tines aligned?

[djunderw]

Before you send the Sailor to a technician, try the "brown paper trick" for nib smoothing.

This method has been discussed on these Forums & often works.

There is now one thread on Repairs Q&A Forum re: "nib smoothing".

Are the nib's tines aligned?

 

OK, I will definitely try this. I bought the pen from one of the top nibmeisters who adjusted it for smoothness. So, I'm guessing that the Sailor Fine nib is not "supposed" to be much smoother.

Edited February 27, 2012 by djunderw

[raging.dragon]

What ink are you using? A wetter ink or one with more lubrication will make the nib feel smoother.

 

A Sailor F in alot finer than a Pelikan F, about the same as or perhaps slightly finer than a Pelikan EF. So it's possible that you just don't like nibs that fine. It's also possible that the nib is slightly out alignment, has a burr or some other flaw the nib technician missed - while the top nib technicians rarely make mistakes it does happen occassionally.

 

Making a nib broader requires welding more tipping material onto the nib, which is going to be somewhat expensive (since it's rather tedious work that only a handful of nib technicians have experience doing). With a modern pen it's worth looking into other options - including buying a new nib or even a complete pen and selling the old one.

[tinta]

I have written with a Sailor H-F nib, adjusted & prepared for sale by a well respected nib technician.

This nib was beautifully smoothed, yet it still had a subtle "tooth" to it (even on glassy Rhodia vellum).

 

Could it have been just my lack of experience with such a narrow grade (round-tip) nib?

Did I use more pressure than I should have, for this fine nib grade?

Not sure.

Maybe this is the way that a Sailor F nib is supposed to perform.

I don't know.

 

(All my pens have edged nibs: stubs or cursive italics & I may be writing with a much heavier hand.)

Edited February 27, 2012 by tinta

[professionaldilettante]

Also, you really can't go from a fine to anything larger, because either you need to get it retipped, or just go without tipping for a stubbed pen that's prone to wear.

[Leftytoo]

I have two Sailors (EF, M) which are not as smooth as my 2 Pelikans (M, OM) or my Parker (F).

 

The new Sailor Professional Gear with HM nib had a improperly sized nib, and since Sailor refused service (another story) I re-worked the nib myself. I used a 30X magnifier and an ultrahard Arkansas stone with oil, spending several hours and individual strokes to polish the nib and eliminate every tiny flat spot. I also pulled and re-set the nib. The effort was worth it: the nib is still not as plushy soft as a Pelikan or Parker (can't be - it is too stiff), but it now has the superb feel and feed-back typical of an Italian Aurora.

 

Happy ending: the modified Sailor has moved well up the ranks in my rotation.

 

I will second previous comments about nib alignment. Many nibs from top makers arrive with poor alignment. Nothing will improve the performance of your $400 pen more than 5 minutes spent checking, and correcting, poor alignment.

 

Bob

[nicholasyeo]

I have two Sailors (EF, M) which are not as smooth as my 2 Pelikans (M, OM) or my Parker (F).

 

The new Sailor Professional Gear with HM nib had a improperly sized nib, and since Sailor refused service (another story) I re-worked the nib myself. I used a 30X magnifier and an ultrahard Arkansas stone with oil, spending several hours and individual strokes to polish the nib and eliminate every tiny flat spot. I also pulled and re-set the nib. The effort was worth it: the nib is still not as plushy soft as a Pelikan or Parker (can't be - it is too stiff), but it now has the superb feel and feed-back typical of an Italian Aurora.

 

Happy ending: the modified Sailor has moved well up the ranks in my rotation.

 

I will second previous comments about nib alignment. Many nibs from top makers arrive with poor alignment. Nothing will improve the performance of your $400 pen more than 5 minutes spent checking, and correcting, poor alignment.

 

Bob

 

Please, share your story about refused service... That is interesting...

As an owner of so many Sailor pens I should know...

[Silent Speaker]

Also, you really can't go from a fine to anything larger, because either you need to get it retipped, or just go without tipping for a stubbed pen that's prone to wear.

Right on.

 

It's much easier (financially) to go down a grade rather than to go up a grade, and besides that I know of only a few of the nibmeisters out there that can actually do re-tipping at all (going up a grade).

 

The Pelikan is smooth because it's got a larger lump of tipping material on the tip of the nib; the Sailor doesn't have as much and is ground differently to boot.

 

To make the Sailor write a thicker width, somebody has to adhere more tipping material to the end of the nib; such a feat requires great expertise and, I would imagine, specialised tools as well - so this service does come at a cost. Keep that in mind when you're choosing nib grades before final purchase.

 

If you want something analogous to Pelikan F nibs, next time perhaps go instead for Sailor M nibs.

 

I've found the Sailor F nib to also have a smaller, less forgiving "sweet spot" than my other nibs: the pen is more sensitive to writing angle than several other pens I own, and thus depending on how I write, it might not appear to be as smooth as it can be. So perhaps you could try altering the your writing angle to see if that changes the way the nib feels? (perhaps the pressure you exert is another factor? Try a lighter hand if you don't already have one to see if there's any difference).

 

I am of the impression that, although it's possible to have what is essentially an EF nib write "glassy smooth" (or whatever other descriptors you want to use), it is perhaps the due to the overall design of the Sailor nibs that one is more likely to feel some "feedback" (which can be described as "feeling the paper through the nib" - a quality either desired or despised depending on with whom you speak).

 

One man's mild and desirable "feedback" is another man's unbearably, scratchy "tooth".

 

Well, either that or it really could just be misaligned.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Silent Speaker

[jde]

I've an EF Sailor nib which I got after finding an F still too wide for my liking. One of the keys is to use light pressure, and as Silent Speaker indicated, the sweet spot is (of course) smaller than your Pelikan and perhaps "less forgiving."

 

The OP says the pen came from "one of the top nibmeisters." I would not hesitate to go back to him (assuming "he") and tell him of your experience. Either the nib still needs adjustment, or, uh, how you are using it needs adjustment. As someone else said, you may need to move up to an "M."

Edited February 27, 2012 by jde

[kcoen52]

There will almost always be a bit more feedback with finer nibs, and typically Japanese nibs are about one size finer than Western nibs; IE a Sailor F is equivalent to a Pelikan EF or smaller! However, there are a few things that can make the writing experience a bit smoother.

 

One being to adjust the nib to produce a slightly wetter line. Then make sure the nib is aligned, and as you said it was already adjusted for smoothness by a nibmeister you should not have to do anymore to the nib.

 

The final changes will have to be to your writing style. You will have to write with a lighter hand; this will not effect the way the rest of your pens write in a negative manner as they will still produce the same lines (they may even feel smoother). If that doesn't help, you may have to adjust your writing angle, but if you are used to how you write and have many pens already that may be very difficult.

 

Note to adjust the tines and other functions of a nib you will need a loupe. These can be found on eBay very readily with varying degrees of expense and quality. Do some research and find the one you feel most confident buying. I recommend a 10x loupe, and would not recommend spending an excessive amount of money. My triplet loupe cost less than $5, and it works just fine.

Edited February 27, 2012 by kcoen52

[Bo Bo Olson]

I write with the forefinger up method of grasping a fountain pen. It is a variant of the 'tripod'.

 

In advanced search look up "Tripod" and look up "Death Grip".

There will be pictures of both ways to hold a pen properly and both ways are proper.

 

I find the forefinger up method gives me an automatic light as grasping a featherless baby bird grip on a pen and takes two minutes to learn and perhaps an hour or only 15 minutes to bring your writing down to the size it was before.

With in a week of learning the forefinger up method, I was using it 90% of the time. Now 98% and that counts my American P-75.

 

So I use the forefinger up almost all the time with out a thought. Its easy to learn, took me two whole minutes.

[djunderw]

UPDATE: I recently bought a Sailor Professional Gear Realo M from Nibs.com. It will arrive in a few days. I suspect really what I am looking for is a thicker stroke. Will update this thread once I ink it and take it for a ride.

[torstar]

Someone has a Sailor and the tip isn't BUTTERY-SMOOTH?

 

[nicholasyeo]

Someone has a Sailor and the tip isn't BUTTERY-SMOOTH?

 

 

Honestly speaking, there are nibs out there, F and EF nibs that are indeed

possibly described as "buttery smooth". I have tried different pieces of pens

in shops before and each individual pen offered a different feel. Some EF

and F nibs are truly worked to perfection, while others are not at their full

potential. Perhaps I may suggest that if a person is particular about not

wanting any feedback from a pen, do not be ashamed to ask the staff at a

shop for a number of pens, whether the same or of different models, to

try before buying. Surely there is variation, because the pens have hand -

done nibs and the technician could sometimes make mistakes...

[djunderw]

Someone has a Sailor and the tip isn't BUTTERY-SMOOTH?

 

 

I'm starting to think perhaps I was applying too much pressure. Maybe that's why it seemed less than perfectly smooth.

[raging.dragon]

Someone has a Sailor and the tip isn't BUTTERY-SMOOTH?

 

 

I'm starting to think perhaps I was applying too much pressure. Maybe that's why it seemed less than perfectly smooth.

 

That is certainly possible.

[buffalowings]

A lot of factors come into play, from my experience, sailors have a much smaller 'sweet spot" then other makes, meaning it takes a more particular angle, pressure, etc to write well. Also, the wetness matters as well. The wetter the pen is, the smoother it is but too much and the pen will be bleeding ink and feathering on every stroke. In general, fine nibbed pens do not write as smoothly as larger nibs simply because there is less ink to act as a lubricant for the nib and the paper.

[tanalasta]

If you bought it from one of the nibmeisteres, i very much would avoid the brown paper bag trick. Using too much pressure will make the nib scratchy - a Sailor fine is still an EF nib by any other standard. The inner tines can be rather sharp and lead to a scratchy result if you use too much pressure and it catches the page. A well lubricated ink such as Noodler's eel series, iroshizuku, Aurora also helps.

Check also for tine alignment.

[djunderw]

If you bought it from one of the nibmeisteres, i very much would avoid the brown paper bag trick. Using too much pressure will make the nib scratchy - a Sailor fine is still an EF nib by any other standard. The inner tines can be rather sharp and lead to a scratchy result if you use too much pressure and it catches the page. A well lubricated ink such as Noodler's eel series, iroshizuku, Aurora also helps.

Check also for tine alignment.

 

I have recently started using the Pilot Iroshizuku inks (Yama Budo - Bordeaux is my favorite!). They are indeed quite wet and nice!