Diamine Ancient Copper

[Sandy1]

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Grey Scale:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/InkyThoughts2010/INK576-1-2.jpg

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Figure 1.

Swabs & Swatch

Paper: HPJ1124 24 lb. Laser Copy.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/6b260177.jpg

 

Figure 2.

NIB-ism ✑

Paper: HPJ1124.

Depicts nibs' line-width and pens' relative wetness.

IMG-thumb:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/th_72dc89aa.jpg

 

Pens: L ➠ R: Estie, P99, C74, 45, Prelude, Waterman's, Waterman's 52 1/2 V.

Figure 3.

Paper base tints:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Private%20Reserve%20Chocolate/86f3378c.jpg

L

➠

R: HPJ1124, Rhodia, G Lalo white, Royal, Staples 20 lb.

WRITTEN SAMPLES - Moby Dick

Ruling: 8mm.

 

Figure 4.

Paper: HPJ1124.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/b71e3345.jpg

 

Figure 5.

Paper: Rhodia.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/f5763ab9.jpg

 

Figure 5A

Paper: Rhodia.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/d12d7b54.jpg

Figure 6.

Paper: G Lalo, Verge de France, white.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/5febd522.jpg

 

Figure 7.

Paper: Royal - 25% rag.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/fb01f065.jpg

Figure 8.

Paper: Staples 20 lb. multi-use

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/4f33b867.jpg

Figure 9.

Grocery List

Paper: Pulp. One-a-Day calendar page.

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/1de11446.jpg

 

OTHER STUFF

 

Figure 10.

Smear/Dry Times.

Wet Tests. ☂

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/c7cf5b63.jpg

GENERAL DESCRIPTION

 

Type:

• Dye-based fountain pen ink.

Presentation:

• Bottle.

Availability:

• Released December, 2011.

Daily writer?

• Rather unlikely.

A go-to ink?

• When a high performance Orange-Red Brown is desired.

USE

 

Business:

(From the office of Ms Blue-Black.)

• As much as I am trying to consider some Brown inks as suitable for business correspondence, I cannot make the stretch to include DAC in that group.
• Use for personal work product would be iffy; perhaps limited to key/summary notes.
• Nice choice for mark-up or editing of drafts written in colours from Turquoise through Blue to Black.
• Doesn't make the grade for marking or error correction.

Illustrations / Graphics:

• Definitely - use from a wet brush seems especially appealing.
• Cannot see this as a transitional colour - a bit too impure, but would do well as a foil to vibrant Violets - Purples.
• Line quality is high, so fine lines can be considered, but shading should be suppressed for diagrams, labels, etc.

Students:

• As for business use, DAC is unlikely to be a candidate for all but alt/aux use.
• S/DT was quite short, so mark-up on the fly seems likely.
• On the 20lb Staples, bleed- show-through was not seen to any extent, so use on 'lowest-bidder' papers seems a realistic possibility.
• The water resistance is poor, so stuff that was written just might be salvageable - cross your fingers.

Personal:

• This would seem the home range of DAC, yet I have not used ink of a similar colour; Pelikan 4001 Brown being sort of not really close, and I still have not come around to that one. So even though I may not be swept away, I am willing to be astonished.
• For pro forma personal business writing, set this one aside - use-up the wancher ebine instead.
• Definitely for 'personal' personal writing.
• Here is another one that receives my usual approach to untried colours by starting at high density. DAC seems quite stable on the page at high density, but is not immobilised.
• If I were to receive personal correspondence written with this ink, I would think 'wth?'
• While I am trying to find the handle of this ink by using rather narrow nibs, the Written Samples show considerable potential for a wide range of width, wetness, shape and flex. Have at it!
• Billets doux?

PHYSICAL PERFORMANCE & CHARACTERISTICS

 

Flow Rate:

• Normal.

Nib Dry-out:

• Not seen.

Start-up:

• Immediate.
• With confidence.

Lubrication:

• Just fine.

Nib Creepers:

• Not seen.

Staining (pen):

• Not seen; contact time was eight days.

Clogging:

• Not seen.

Bleed- Show-Through:

• HPJ1124: Waterman.
• Royal: Waterman.
• For those instances, writing on both sides of the sheet would be fine for own-use.

Feathering / Woolly Line:

• Not seen.

Aroma:

• Absent.

Hand oil sensitivity:

• Not evident.

Clean Up:

• Quick and thorough with plain water.

Mixing:

• No stated prohibitions.

Archival:

• Not claimed.

Water Resistance & Smear/Dry Times:

• As shown in Figure 10 above.

☞ That, dear reader, is an admirable performance profile. :clap1:

 

THE LOOK

 

Note:

More than most inks, I found my perception of the colour varies under different light sources. Under direct sunlight, DAC is distinctly Brown as depicted in this Review; under tungsten bulbs, I see it as a well done Burnt Orange. The extent of that variation depends on ink density, which is greater when the ink is pale.

Presence:

• A nuanced stance.
• Attracts and holds interest.
• May distract from what's written.

Saturation:

• Middling.

Shading:

• Very attractive when it appears.
• Needs to be encouraged, but possible even from XF nibs.
  

Variability:

• Pen+nib combos used:
  • Perhaps a bit less than expected.

  [*]Papers used:

  • As expected.

  [*]Malleability:

  • Strong potential.
  • As DAC performed admirably with pens and papers used here, there seems to be considerable leeway to explore a broader range of pens and papers before performance degrades.
  • Performance is suited to a daily writer; alas, the colour is not!

Hi-Res Scans:

Originals are 57x45mm.

 

As I do not aspire to the sobriquet 'Queen of The Bandwidth Bandits', these are IMG thumbs only.

 

Estie on HPJ1124

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/th_1351fd13.jpg

C74 on Rhodia

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/th_f59fa88d.jpg

52 1/2 V on Rhodia

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/th_e5d9da32.jpg

45 on G Lalo

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/th_2031c94c.jpg

Crusader on Royal

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/th_73977cb3.jpg

FIDELITY

 

Is the name appropriate?

• Just say 'Yes'.

Are swabs/swatches accurate?

• Diamine site sample is a reasonable depiction. http://www.diaminein...px?prodcode=998
• Wiki : http://en.wikipedia....per_%28color%29

OTHER INKS

 

Comparisons:

To enable ad hoc comparison, my Reviews of Brown inks from 29 November 2010 onward share the same Written Sample layout, atrocious handwriting, and some papers & pens. Manipulation of web browser windows supports simultaneous viewing of Written Samples of several inks. That said, if you feel a specific aspect deserves to be depicted/documented as a stand-alone Topic or Post, your PM will be welcomed.

 

Swab Swami:

An exercise in contrasts to depict DAC by showing what it is not.

 

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/02538fb1.jpg

From Left to Right: Waterman Havana, Caran d'Ache Saffron, and Pelikan 4001 Brown.

PAPERS

 

Lovely papers:

• Did well on all papers used.

Trip-wire Papers: ☠

• Not seen.

Tinted Papers:

• I would not use any strong tints, preferring to work with versions of white.

Pre-Printed Papers:

• Forms, etc.
  • Seems a shame to use this ink on forms, but at high density it should do for making / identifying anomalous entries.

  [*]For charts & graphs:

  • Consider stronger more pure colours for such applications.

Is high-end paper 'worth it'?

• Not really.
• Very much a matter of preference over performance.

ETC.

 

Majik:

• Possible.
• DAC has strong performance characteristics so is likely to endure conjuring.

Personal Pen & Paper Pick:

• The C74 on the Rhodia. (Is no one surprised?)
• The nib generates a line-width that gives a somewhat low % coverage, allowing DAC lots of breathing room, and runs at high enough density that it remains well seated and reduces its potential to distract from what's written.
• The Rhodia has a softly warm tone that cossets the ink; and the hard smooth surface encourages shading which slows reading just a bit.

Yickity Yackity:

• Another voyage of discovery into uncharted warm waters.
• Ah kushbaby, too cayenne tandoori for you and Ghandi?

======

 

NUTS & BOLTS

 

Pens:

IMG-thumb:

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy116/Sandy1-1/FPN%20Stuff%20-%202011/Ink%20Review%20-%20Diamine%20Ancient%20Copper/th_1c0a81a6.jpg

• Esterbrook J + 9550 steel XF nib.
• Pelikan P99 Technix + steel F nib.
• Pilot Custom 74 + SFM nib.
• Parker 45 + g-p steel M nib.
• Sheaffer Prelude + steel B nib.
• Waterman's Crusader (?) + № 5 14K Ideal nib.
• Waterman's 52 1/2 V + № 2 nib. Figure 5A only.

• For lines & labels: Pelikan Turquoise from a Pilot Penmanship + XF.

______

 

Papers:

• HPJ1124 24 lb. Laser Copy.
• Rhodia.
• G Lalo, Verge de France, white.
• Royal, 25% cotton rag.
• Staples 20 lb. multi-use.
• Pulp. One-a-Day calendar page.

______

 

Images:

• Scans were made on an Epson V600 scanner; factory defaults were accepted.
• Figures shown were scanned at 200 dpi & 24 bit colour.
• HiRes Images linked were scanned at 300 dpi & 24 bit colour.
• Scanner output files were not adjusted post-capture, so went straight to the file sharing thingy.

______

 

Densitometer Readings:

(HPJ1124)

• Red 180
• Grn 99
• Blu 81
• Lum 111

______

 

Fine Print

The accuracy and relevance of this Review depends in great part upon consistency and reliability of matériel used.

Ink does not require labelling/notice to indicate (changes in) formulation, non-hazardous ingredients, batch ID, date of manufacture, etc.

As always, YMMV, not only from materials, methods, environment, etc., but also due to differences between the stuff I used, and that you may have.

Also, I entrust readers to separate opinion from fact; to evaluate inferences and conclusions as to their merit; and to be amused by whatever tickles your fancy.

 

-30-

Tags: Fountain Pen Ink Review Diamine Ancient Copper Burnt Orange Brown Sandy1

Edited December 17, 2011 by Sandy1

[Ruminator]

Sandy, your reviews are clearly a labor of love, delivered with detail and wit. Thanks for taking (so much) time to review the inks and provide (so much) data!

 

I'm a little surprised (at myself), but I actually like this color. I have some fondness for darker reds.

 

Thank you...

 

-=d

[PAKMAN]

I learned a lesson with this ink. Never judge an ink by the first pen you put it in! I was at a pen club meeting and had just picked up this ink. I had my newly aquired Carmine OS Balance with me and though I might as well ink it up with the new ink. I had flushed the pen when I got it and then used some blue inks in it and it was recently flushed and empty. The pen is an extra fine point so the depth of color is hard to see but the ink was very dark which is not what I expected. I even scribbled some big patches of color and still very dark. When I got home my wife wanted to try the new ink in her True Writer with a medium nib. Wow what a difference in color, it looked like I expected this ink to look. I scribbled and scribbled with the Balance and finally the ink color started to get lighter.

 

So the lesson... Vintage pens that were used most of their lives with blue / black inks may look clean and run clear when flushed but when you try other colors in them those old plated out layers of ink may finally disolve and discolor your new ink. From now on I will try out new inks with newer pens and broader nibs!

[Sandy1]

Sandy, your reviews are clearly a labor of love, delivered with detail and wit. Thanks for taking (so much) time to review the inks and provide (so much) data!

 

I'm a little surprised (at myself), but I actually like this color. I have some fondness for darker reds.

 

Thank you...

 

-=d

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

I'm glad you like this colour. (I am using the Custom 74 + SFM to find the handle.)

 

Ah, now the re-naming of the ink colour starts: I called out 'Brown' and 'Burnt Orange', now your impression is toward 'Dark Red'. OK, I could see that at high density. I think that is the 'nuanced & balanced' aspect of the ink at work. Let's see what comes.

 

Bye,

S1

[dannyboy]

Sandy--as always your reviews are thorough and fair. Thanks for all the time you spend in helping us see the variety of possibilities with many inks. I've been using Ancient Copper for about a week now and like it very much, but I must admit I've always liked shades of brown. I'm reminded in using AC of the now departed Sailor Red/Brown (a long-time favorite of mine).

[Ruminator]

Ah, now the re-naming of the ink colour starts: I called out 'Brown' and 'Burnt Orange', now your impression is toward 'Dark Red'. OK, I could see that at high density. I think that is the 'nuanced & balanced' aspect of the ink at work. Let's see what comes.

 

I like "burnt orange" as a good descriptor. For my (arguably old) eyes, the difference between brown and dark red is sometimes difficult to call, but I trust your judgment and beg you forgive my lack of acuity.

 

I used to want a car painted burnt orange... with red flames... I was young, once, but so long ago I've forgotten what that means. :)

 

-=d

[Ruminator]

So the lesson... Vintage pens that were used most of their lives with blue / black inks may look clean and run clear when flushed but when you try other colors in them those old plated out layers of ink may finally disolve and discolor your new ink. From now on I will try out new inks with newer pens and broader nibs!

 

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread... but I wanted to affirm your observation. I'm thinking about buying a TWSBI that I can easily disassemble for cleaning for such testing projects. I'm currently using an Estie J that I rebuilt with a new ink sac and a fresh 9668 for testing. It's not a bad choice and keeps me in the vintage pen world for writing.

 

-=d

[Sandy1]

I learned a lesson with this ink. Never judge an ink by the first pen you put it in! I was at a pen club meeting and had just picked up this ink. I had my newly aquired Carmine OS Balance with me and though I might as well ink it up with the new ink. I had flushed the pen when I got it and then used some blue inks in it and it was recently flushed and empty. The pen is an extra fine point so the depth of color is hard to see but the ink was very dark which is not what I expected. I even scribbled some big patches of color and still very dark. When I got home my wife wanted to try the new ink in her True Writer with a medium nib. Wow what a difference in color, it looked like I expected this ink to look. I scribbled and scribbled with the Balance and finally the ink color started to get lighter.

 

So the lesson... Vintage pens that were used most of their lives with blue / black inks may look clean and run clear when flushed but when you try other colors in them those old plated out layers of ink may finally disolve and discolor your new ink. From now on I will try out new inks with newer pens and broader nibs!

Hi,

 

Congratulations on the new pen - very nice indeed.

 

Thanks for sharing your unintentional mixing experience!

 

I share your thoughts about used pens that were not maintained to support ease of changing ink colours. Fortunately, I have a cache of Quink with SOLV-X that I run through such older pens, and that often does the trick. I've read that commercially available cleaners do the necessary as well if not better.

 

My bottle of yellow ink is being used to test for pen cleanliness. When loaded into a new-to-me used pen, if I see the least bit of an off colour in the writing, then I need to give cleaning another go.

 

The sac-filler pens I use for Reviews are all professionally restored, so are unlikely to carry-forward traces of prior inks. Amazingly, the Parkers with pliglass sacs may be stained, but do not pass any of that to new inks. As you mention - there is 'plating', which may be nasty, but staining is unlikely to taint the new ink during short exposure, though expect the unexpected.

 

Bye,

S1

[IWantThat]

Beautiful color...I just can't for the life of me think what I'd use it for. I'll keep thinking Thank you Sandy!

[swagginman]

Spectacular review as always. One of my top three current inks.

[inkspot]

I'm glad I saw your fabulous review! This ink is far more orange than I would have anticipated from other scans I've seen. Thanks!

[Belles-lettres]

Sandy1-

I had been awaiting an authoritative review on this ink - it seems so appealing - but I have made the plunge in the past before reading a quality review and regretted my decision in the bright light of morning...

As always, thank you for your commitment to the inky world - although you surprised me by venturing so very far from blue-black!

Off to the Goulet's web site now.

toodle pip.

[Sassafras]

Sandy,

 

A lovely review from you, as always.

I find I am willing to read through your reviews even when I dislike the ink color. Which isn't the case with this one! Between your review and the other one just done on think ink, I might have to get it....because I need another brown, really I do!! (No, No I don't. But I *wants* it!!!!)

[Sandy1]

Sandy--as always your reviews are thorough and fair. Thanks for all the time you spend in helping us see the variety of possibilities with many inks. I've been using Ancient Copper for about a week now and like it very much, but I must admit I've always liked shades of brown. I'm reminded in using AC of the now departed Sailor Red/Brown (a long-time favorite of mine).

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

I'm glad that after using DAC for a week that you think my Review is fair.

 

I'd read elsewhere that there was a similarity to the ex-Red-Brown, but I hadn't given that one a go. Perhaps someone with both inks could but up a few comparison samples.

 

Bye,

S1

[Sandy1]

Beautiful color...I just can't for the life of me think what I'd use it for. I'll keep thinking Thank you Sandy!

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

As for finding the use for it, I'm thinking of using it for Thank You notes, and chirpie 'it was nice to meet you / see you again' notes. The sorts of things that are brief and not too too personal.

 

Bye,

S1

[Sandy1]

Spectacular review as always. One of my top three current inks.

Hi,

 

Thanks for the compliment!

 

I'm glad that its reached your 'top three' so quickly!

 

Bye,

S1

Edited December 18, 2011 by Sandy1

[Sandy1]

I'm glad I saw your fabulous review! This ink is far more orange than I would have anticipated from other scans I've seen. Thanks!

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

I think the scans here are quite accurate, yet the colour is tricky to describe as it seems to shift about.

 

I mentioned the very slight variation that I perceived relative to the Diamine site sample. I looked at a few other scans of samples created from an inked-up fountain pen, and thought they were very similar - especially those included in the Review by member fiberdrunk.

 

I think that DAC is another ink where swabs fall short; and the interplay of the ink and the base-tint of the paper is important to the appearance, certainly more so than most Blue inks.

 

Bye,

S1

[Sandy1]

Sandy1-

I had been awaiting an authoritative review on this ink - it seems so appealing - but I have made the plunge in the past before reading a quality review and regretted my decision in the bright light of morning...

As always, thank you for your commitment to the inky world - although you surprised me by venturing so very far from blue-black!

Off to the Goulet's web site now.

toodle pip.

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

I do roam away from Blue-Black from time to time, and find that to be stimulating. I even crossed paths recently with 'Bilberry', a Purple ink!

 

I will be delighted to read of your experience with DAC, as I find it somewhat elusive.

 

Bye,

S1

[Sandy1]

Sandy,

 

A lovely review from you, as always.

I find I am willing to read through your reviews even when I dislike the ink color. Which isn't the case with this one! Between your review and the other one just done on think ink, I might have to get it....because I need another brown, really I do!! (No, No I don't. But I *wants* it!!!!)

Hi,

 

Thanks for the compliment!

 

So nice that you find my Reviews worth reading. Consider them to be like a travel magazine article about a place you'll likely never visit.

 

So glad you like this colour! This one has the performance profile to follow-through - not just another pretty swatch on the page.

 

I think its great that there's a blush of contemporary reviews about this ink! It seems that there was some anticipation prior to release. Lots of people with lots of thoughts!

 

Bye,

S1

[Bo Bo Olson]

Until that Diamine Ancient Copper ink hit the Rhoda, I thought my 'new' DA Kupper braun was holding it's own or near abouts.

Major League Shading.

 

I'd not tested DA Kupper braun, in I had the big ESSR test to do. I'd been happy with the little I'd seen.

Until I saw that 52 1/2 on the Rhoda. :embarrassed_smile: The C74 also. Rhoda seemed to make this ink really come to life.

 

I had DA Kupper braun in Semi-flex OM....then I pulled out a regular flex F, in there is often great differences in nibs.

Out came a couple of medium to good papers, the 110 Zander I bought after my paper test...the 95 g MK paper that beats it...a couple of those 90 gram Zebra papers that were hanging around on the street corner thinking evil thoughts.

Got beat.

Out came the 90 G Clairefontain.

Still got beat big time.

Out came a easy full flex Degussa F.

OK don't mind getting beat by a neck.

 

 

I will be seeing what I can get free in M, and regular flex M and so on.

 

I want to see if I can get with DA Kupper braunso many shades of brown as the Diamine Ancient Copper ink that Sandy tested.

 

It seems to be superb.

It appears I have it's poor cousin. :bonk:

 

 

Added a day late and a silver dollar short.

I'm often a little slow...this morning I printed with the DA ink on the Clairefontain velvet/veloute 90 g...and it looks much more in the running with the Rhoda paper, being beaten by a nose.

It does not have so many tones of brown as the Diamine.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Bo Bo Olson